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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
OK, here is what I’ve surmised; help me fill in the holes:
1. The world was dark, void and without form.
2. So god set to work and made this little bay.
3. Fast Forward to post-revolution and some Italian guy owns the bay.
4. Munoz ‘buys’ the beach from said Italian guy; and per Wooosh’s guess has good title, the best.
5. Munoz leases all? or part? of beach to a Mexican (Olivia) and her husband/boyfriend Mike.
6. Somebody, and I don’t know who or when, builds a hotel and a restaurant. And when I say ‘build’, I mean who paid for the material
and labor and who was expecting to get the benefit of these businesses?
7. Somehow/way, Mike and Olivia have at the very least a signed lease for the restaurant and maybe other parts of the beach.
8. Mike and Olivia sub-lease to others who build houses, these houses are on the opposite side of the hotel from the restaurant/bar. I am led to
believe that these sub-leasees THOUGHT they were leasing from the owners of the property but were not.
9. Munoz, who probably is aware of all this, waits until the homes are built and furnished and then contacts the dreamers and tells them to get the
f*ck off his property.
10. Sh*t hits the fan, people come after Mike & Olivia and Mike bails.
11. Mark shows up to continue the fight.
12. Olivia files for and gets a beach concession for the area where the café/bar is.
13. Mark and Olivia take over one of the houses as their own; I mean, why not; they’re just sitting there.
14. Olivia (and I am just guessing here) starts doing the Mexican version of ownership per possession and improvement, squatter’s rights and all that.
She must have been a little bit successful here given the fear shown by Munoz.
15. Munoz goes apesh*t and starts fighting dirty, or even dirtier.
There is only one access road that serves both restaurant and hotel. This tells me that both were built by the same party with the concept that both
buildings were on a single piece of property or lot and therefore no subdivision has taken place unless the person who ended up with the restaurant
lot is very stupid as they now would have no guaranteed access. Or they are being stupid like a fox.
Will somebody who actually knows something fill in the blanks to the above timeline? Thanks
These kinds of stories are entertaining, but drive me nucking futs. Do we all just totally toss our common sense when we cross the border?
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There is enough blame to go around. This version posted last week is as good as any made this week. I don't have enough new information and I doubt
we'll ever see it. That's why I never read the whole "Turtle Soup: thread. Fifty pages of speculation with no conclusion. I feel bad for people
like XPBres who lost their baja dream homes. It doesn't really matter which party is right when it is your dream house they are fighting over.
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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XPBRes
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Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
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Skipjack Joe,
I remember that the ejido asked Olivia to start paying for all the improvements to the property. It was coming up on 10 years and I think their lease
had come up for review or renewal. I don’t think Mike had yet paid the ejido for improving the land and that was a condition to his lease with the
ejido. Since Mike had left her with very little she only had us and the hotel to make up the difference.
We had leases that stated they would be renewed every 30 years up to 90 years. Again these are signed and stamped by all parties involved, Olivia,
ejido and us.
She told us the ejido wanted an amount ? (3o,ooo) And she didn’t have it and we needed to pay it, thus started the negotiations. We tried to help by
giving her a bump in the rent but weren’t willing to sign new leases.
For us it had to do with the fact that we had paid to improve our lots. If they did not share that with the ejido, we did not see that as our problem
and stood firm. We thought that 7 renters was a decent monthly income for Olivia, she also had the hotel, beach and restaurant.
This is my best memory of the events, it was 10 years ago and old-timers is setting in.
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]
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XPBRes
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Latina,
to me it was a perfect storm scenario.
Mike leaves Olivia and homeowners vulnerable and feuding, along comes Munoz with documents and an offer the Italians couldn't refuse.
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]
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Skipjack Joe
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Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Thank you XPBres,
Can you now please tell me:
1. What the Munoz offer was.
2. Why you found it more attractive.
3. How Munoz got around the ejido restrictions that you found offensive in the Olivia offer.
If my questions sound naive it's because I don't understand the ownership relationship between Munoz and the ejido.
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
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SJ,
I think you need to 1st understand that Mike had made us antagonist with Olivia and the Italians. We understood that kept him with the power to
manipulate all parties.
When Mike left we started sharing notes and found they were double dipping the hotel. Then making the Italians think that we were all freeloaders. It
took almost a year to get the Italians to see that they were being used. A good example is the generators. Since the Italians were running a legit
business they had a lawyer, account and receipts for the generator. We helped pay for the generator, they never knew....etc.
Munoz comes along telling us our options are to side with Olivia, he will sue us and win. Sue him and he will win, or start paying him rent and he
will appraise our property and compensate us for the improvements we made to his property.
The ejido wasn’t as much an issue since he had showed us that he had purchased the land.
It is why we tried to stall and see what shook out. A year wasn’t enough.
Which option knowing what you know now would you choose?
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]
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Skipjack Joe
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Yes, I understand your choice.
Munoz showed up with documents that showed complete ownership and since he was not beholding to the ejido he could make a much sweeter offer. So you
all went over and leased from him. However, you soon found out that he considered your homes his own property and used them at will, even though you
were paying rent. At that point in time you all started severing your ties with him and took your losses.
I guess what bothers me, though, is that if Munoz had not arrived at the scene you still would have all bailed out.
Things get murky after that as to where the blame lies. At least to me.
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XPBRes
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SJ,
I guess we will never know.
I think it would have been easier to see a scenario where the Hotel might have worked with us as we started to become allies. They were the 1st to
bail, that changed our leverage.
It is one of the areas that in hind sight I can see Mark’s point of view.
I again have to say this wasn't just one person's decision, multiple people came to the same conclusion to switch sides.
What a mess and no one is innocent!
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]
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luv2fish
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| Quote: | Originally posted by XPBRes
SJ,
I guess we will never know.
I think it would have been easier to see a scenario where the Hotel might have worked with us as we started to become allies. They were the 1st to
bail, that changed our leverage.
It is one of the areas that in hind sight I can see Mark’s point of view.
I again have to say this wasn't just one person's decision, multiple people came to the same conclusion to switch sides.
What a mess and no one is innocent!
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes] |
http://www.rtmark.com/popotlaaustria.html
http://www.icfdn.org/aboutus/inthenews/PDF/08182011.pdf
http://munoz-industries.com/
This guy is all over the net, maybe too much.
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Roberto
Banned
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Registered: 9-5-2003
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SJ, where are you headed? It doesn't seem to me that you are asking questions to make up your mind, but rather to make a point. You say you understand
Munoz showed up with proof of clear title, doesn't that pretty much trump all? Unless, of course you doubt the legitimacy of such.
On the whole I see a tendency on the part of the board to take Mark & Olivia's side in this. From what has been presented so far -- there seems to
be no logic to this. Once again this is more proof (if it was needed) that buying real estate in Mexico is a BAD idea for foreigners. Indeed, for
Mexicans, as well. The system is just to corrupt, and predictably, there are all sorts of people prepared to take advantage of it. "When you go to
war, dig two graves". Is that it?
[Edited on 2-20-2012 by Roberto]
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Skipjack Joe
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I've had time to think about it and have decided that nothing XPBRes has written on this thread has any relevance to it at all.
If Munoz and Marc are brought to trial over charges of assault and battery the information XPBRes has brought forth would be inadmissable. It is
irelevant and has nothing to do with the matter.
Somehow, this XPBRes has taken this thread about assault to one of "Who Cares, they're both scoundrels".
Why was this done? I have no idea except out of feelings of anger.
I think the right thing should have been and remains that a separate thread be created for those homeowners who were cheated at Buenaventura. I don't
see this as an unimportant "here, there, what's the difference where it's written".
Furthermore, I feel that Marc should not have responded to the accusations with explanations. He should have directed XPBRes to the title of the
thread and told him "I'll talk about this on this thread.
Although I don't regret the off topic questions I don't plan to engage in them any longer. I hope that the rest of the board can stay on track and
stop speculating which one was worse to the homeowners. I hope that this thread can go back to it's original intent with news of the five arrested
individuals.
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
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Skipjack Joe,
I was reacting to Mark posting a picture of his new home on Facebook that was attached to this thread. This home was built by my friends, neighbors
prior to Marks involvement on this beach. Hell yes I was angry.
I thought I could shed some light on the fact that this interaction between Mark & Munoz has been going on for a long time. I tried to share
Information as to why this is happening.
I agree with you that I should have started a new thread. Being a first time poster and that this seems to be the most active and viewed thread since
the turtle soup.
I hope that you will forgive me this one indiscretion.
[Edited on 2-20-2012 by XPBRes]
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ELINVESTIG8R
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Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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XPBRes, you have done nothing you need to
apologize for! What you brought forth does have relevance! Some people like to pontificate!! Keep on posting at will!
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
Is that right? |
Who will ever know. This whole thing is a big can of worms. I quit trying to follow it a long time ago. |
You're right, I deleted my post.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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can
more like a truck bed of worm's K&T
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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I love this topic. 33+ thousand views and 483 replies ... what we need now is some of the other "renters" or "owners" to join in. Who's next?
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woody with a view
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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NEXT !!
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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Buenaventura employees are still in custody, because they are not in jail, because at this time they have not been charged with any crime, they are
just kidnapped by the Estate Government.
Today a Federal Protection Order was granted against the Estate police.
The court appointment is on Friday and they will be out on Friday after the court scheduled time.
It is now clear that through very high organized crime contacts, Olivia reached the Este District attorney and convinced him to invade my property
without a court order, on the promise that we had fire weapons and we that we have no legal permits for them, that would justify their actions after
the fact and they would become partners at my hotel because my title is false.
Wrong on several points, our weapons are legal and registered by the Army and Federal Police and my title resulted authentic and true.
The Baja South Estate Governor sent a congressman to Mexico City with the allegation that the Federal District Attorney has no business on Baja
Justice matters, and he was just smothered by the National Press, because he was wrong on all statements and has no proof of any wrong doing.
It is clear that the Estate District attorney participated in a organized crime plot to illegally acquire my property and let Olivia run it, but they
were based on several wrong facts and the plot is coming down with the head of the Estate District attorney.
Los Cabos have an International convention on organized crime in the next few days and the national and international press will eat alive the Estate
Governor and Estate District attorney if they do not solve this illegality.
National Press is publishing my statements charging the Este District Attorney with the illegalities committed that are now in the open and in the
Federal Police knowledge.
We will not stop until the Estate District Attorney is out of the job and prosecuted together with Olivia and Nark Burbey.
I will be posting the National coverage articles here.
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 11-15-2004
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Sure dude,
They will be out last week.
They will be out next week.
Olivia will be in jail.
Olivia will be gone.
Yada, yada, yada ..... so far nothing you have said has come true so I'm curious why you think anyone should believe anything you have to say now ?
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
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So...Mark & Olivia, the State Attorney, the army, the police, the governor and high levels of organized crime are all in a plot together against
Rafael Muñoz Martinez! Can you say "paranoid schizophrenic"?
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