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Ateo
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Wessongroup,
Wanna watch that heathen atheist Christopher Hitchens get water boarded? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58&feature=youtu...
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Skipjack Joe
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All I get from the link is a black screen. Nothingness. I guess he's taking his atheism seriously.
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Ateo
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Haha! I gotta laugh outta that one!
Gotta wait a second for it to load. Maybe the link is bad. Worked for me. You can also google "Christopher Hitchens water boarding".
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
All I get from the link is a black screen. Nothingness. I guess he's taking his atheism seriously. |
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
All I get from the link is a black screen. Nothingness. I guess he's taking his atheism seriously. |
Atheism is a secret society, Skip. Your screen is black because you believed it would open.  That's pretty impressive power! That's what Blind Faith will do to you; leave you in the dark. 
Anyway, Hitchens is dead now; Esophageal Cancer. He wouldn't appreciate this guy either>>>>>>> 
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
"I think poor people are poor because they are poor (which I don't begin to understand, but think it is true)."
Oh yeah, and do you know how to make a million dollars? You start with a million dollars. 
Otherwise, Barry, if you will indulge me in being judgmental  :
I think you are basically a fair person and a gentleman. However, you appear to be very content when not venturing mentally outside of your comfort
zone. The Big Picture possibly may not be being considered. I can understand that though. Most of us operate that way, especially at your
age.    |
"millions producing millions"----------That did not seem to help Rodney King. 
That the old phrase, "it takes money to make money" is certainly true. But I am living proof that it CAN be done without millions to start, and I
have many friends that did also. I was thinking, maybe it helped growing up among the fairly wealthy in Coronado which set my "state of
mind"--------Coronadoan's all think "success", and it usually happens when you stay concentrated on making it happen.
One of my Ranger's once quoted that phrase, "the poor are poor because they are poor", and it really struck me, and has stayed in my mind how true
that is. Being poor, in many cases, is a 'state of mind' that apparently is very hard to break out of for many. When you consider all the billions
that have been spent since the "Great Society" began on the programs for the poor, and how little things have changed for the poor since (a few %
points different in "poor" today), I don't think it is money well spent-------there has GOT to be a better way!!! THAT is the "big picture" to me,
anyway.
But Tony (ToneArt) is correct in that I don't venture mentally very far outside my & my Family's immediate concerns and happiness these
days------age 74 probably has a lot to do with it, and I am not alone. I learned over the many years that what I call "mental masturbation" with
little to show for it is not a rewarding endeavor, either for me or the poor.
added in Edit-----------I thought that Chris. Hitchens was a master of thought and letters, and I loved listening to his interviews and critiques. I
often did not agree with him, but watching his "mind work" was truly a phenominae (sp?).
I miss him, as I do William Buckley.
Barry
[Edited on 6-17-2012 by Barry A.]
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thebajarunner
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Off Topic
Isn't it time to take this little private dialogue down to Off Topic?
Been non-Baja related since about Page 2 IMO
Just wondering why this off topic thread continues here.....
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SFandH
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| Quote: | Originally posted by thebajarunner
Isn't it time to take this little private dialogue down to Off Topic?
Been non-Baja related since about Page 2 IMO
Just wondering why this off topic thread continues here..... |
Unfortunately, most of the contibutors to this thread that I've found to be the most interesting don't post in the Off Topic part of the message
board.
I'd prefer to keep this thread here. It appears to be dying anyway.
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Ateo
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You definitely have a point.
| Quote: | Originally posted by thebajarunner
Isn't it time to take this little private dialogue down to Off Topic?
Been non-Baja related since about Page 2 IMO
Just wondering why this off topic thread continues here..... |
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Cisco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Hear "water-boarding" is acceptable ...  |
Actually the U.S.A. determined water-boarding to be torture at the war crimes trials of the Japanese after WWII.
Since they were water-boarding U.S. POW'S we executed the perpetrators for the crime.
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Cisco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
could Barry be the alter ego of Skeet? |
but I feel strongly that the atheists are grouping,"
Barry |
Barry, just remember, all "atheist" means is a lack of belief in gods. Not far from agnosticism. The fact is, all 7 billion people on this earth are
atheist in regards to the thousands of gods they don't believe in. A Christian is an atheist in regards to Vishnu, Allah and Thor. Those gods aren't
real! But their god is.......
[Edited on 6-17-2012 by ateo] |
Jon, consider polytheism. Works for some. (not me).
And do recall that although an agnostic is not sure, an atheist KNOWS there is no God.
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wessongroup
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Hear "water-boarding" is acceptable ... |
Actually the U.S.A. determined water-boarding to be torture at the war crimes trials of the Japanese after WWII.
Since they were water-boarding U.S. POW'S we executed the perpetrators for the crime. |
Sorry, wasn't speaking to the legality of the pratice, rather to its use in the "field"
As to the legal position, just love the way these folks talk ...
"The revised manual applies only to U.S. military personnel, and as such does not apply to the practices of the CIA.[205]
Nevertheless Steven G. Bradbury, acting head of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) Office of Legal Counsel, on 14 February 2008 testified:
There has been no determination by the Justice Department that the use of waterboarding, under any circumstances, would be lawful under current
law.[206"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
Certainly glad Steve cleared that up for us ..
Maybe he didn't get the memo on the Japanese ...
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vgabndo
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
You definitely have a point.
| Quote: | Originally posted by thebajarunner
Isn't it time to take this little private dialogue down to Off Topic?
Been non-Baja related since about Page 2 IMO
Just wondering why this off topic thread continues here..... |
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I see a lot of irony in the "belief" highjack of Skeet's snit. I also see a lot of value, and I'll cite the number of hits on this thread as evidence.
I am of the school that feels that there are LOTS more closet atheists and agnostics among us than is obvious. In many families, coming out as a
atheist is not unlike coming out gay. One can expect all manner of bad manners from Christian family and friends; including complete disowning. It
appears almost impossible to question belief comfortably in a Christian family.
The lurkers (non-participants) who made up the vast bulk of the hits on this thread likely included a number of folks who are questioning their
inherited beliefs, and found a safe place here to compare information. This has value.
This discussion simply would not have happened if it was living over on the dark side. Off Topic dart slingers would have pinned it's shadow to their
wall in hours.
Thank you Doug, for watching the hit counter and seeing the civility and letting my friends and me pretend we had a campfire between us in Baja.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Cisco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Hear "water-boarding" is acceptable ... |
Actually the U.S.A. determined water-boarding to be torture at the war crimes trials of the Japanese after WWII.
Since they were water-boarding U.S. POW'S we executed the perpetrators for the crime. |
Sorry, wasn't speaking to the legality of the pratice, rather to its use in the "field"
As to the legal position, just love the way these folks talk ...
"The revised manual applies only to U.S. military personnel, and as such does not apply to the practices of the CIA.[205]
Nevertheless Steven G. Bradbury, acting head of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) Office of Legal Counsel, on 14 February 2008 testified:
There has been no determination by the Justice Department that the use of waterboarding, under any circumstances, would be lawful under current
law.[206"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
Certainly glad Steve cleared that up for us ..
Maybe he didn't get the memo on the Japanese ... |
Probably not. It has been made a pretty arcane reference due to our utilization of the practice.
How we twist things, my goodness. "The revised manual applies only to U.S. military personnel, and as such does not apply to the practices of the
CIA.[205]" We can and do, justify, rationalize, sanitize and other ize's just about any action we wish unfortunately.
Guess we lost the man who tried to keep it simple today also, with his televised quote of "Why can't we all just get along"???
I hope there is hope for us all, pretty scary world we have created for ourselves.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
could Barry be the alter ego of Skeet? |
but I feel strongly that the atheists are grouping,"
Barry |
Barry, just remember, all "atheist" means is a lack of belief in gods. Not far from agnosticism. The fact is, all 7 billion people on this earth are
atheist in regards to the thousands of gods they don't believe in. A Christian is an atheist in regards to Vishnu, Allah and Thor. Those gods aren't
real! But their god is.......
[Edited on 6-17-2012 by ateo] |
Jon, consider polytheism. Works for some. (not me).
And do recall that although an agnostic is not sure, an atheist KNOWS there is no God. |
Cisco, just the fact that you mentioned polytheism gains you mass respect in my book.
I would disagree that an atheist KNOWS there is no god. There is no way to prove a negative. He could be hiding in a corner of the universe, afraid
to come out.
I prefer this definition: no evidence for your god, so I don't believe the claim that your god exists. I'm agnostic as well I guess. Show me
evidence and I'm down. Until then, I guess I'm an a-theist.
I don't know everything so I'm willing to learn.
Best regards.
[Edited on 6-18-2012 by ateo]
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Cisco
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Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
could Barry be the alter ego of Skeet? |
but I feel strongly that the atheists are grouping,"
Barry |
Barry, just remember, all "atheist" means is a lack of belief in gods. Not far from agnosticism. The fact is, all 7 billion people on this earth are
atheist in regards to the thousands of gods they don't believe in. A Christian is an atheist in regards to Vishnu, Allah and Thor. Those gods aren't
real! But their god is.......
[Edited on 6-17-2012 by ateo] |
Jon, consider polytheism. Works for some. (not me).
And do recall that although an agnostic is not sure, an atheist KNOWS there is no God. |
Cisco, just the fact that you mentioned polytheism gains you mass respect in my book.
I would disagree that an atheist KNOWS there is no god.
[Edited on 6-18-2012 by ateo] |
They take it on FAITH!
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5901
Registered: 7-18-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
could Barry be the alter ego of Skeet? |
but I feel strongly that the atheists are grouping,"
Barry |
Barry, just remember, all "atheist" means is a lack of belief in gods. Not far from agnosticism. The fact is, all 7 billion people on this earth are
atheist in regards to the thousands of gods they don't believe in. A Christian is an atheist in regards to Vishnu, Allah and Thor. Those gods aren't
real! But their god is.......
[Edited on 6-17-2012 by ateo] |
Jon, consider polytheism. Works for some. (not me).
And do recall that although an agnostic is not sure, an atheist KNOWS there is no God. |
Cisco, just the fact that you mentioned polytheism gains you mass respect in my book.
I would disagree that an atheist KNOWS there is no god.
[Edited on 6-18-2012 by ateo] |
They take it on FAITH! |
The same way we take that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist "on faith".
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Paula
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Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | That the old phrase, "it takes money to make money" is certainly true. But I am living proof that it CAN be done without millions to start, and I
have many friends that did also. I was thinking, maybe it helped growing up among the fairly wealthy in Coronado which set my "state of
mind"--------Coronadoan's all think "success", and it usually happens when you stay concentrated on making it happen.
One of my Ranger's once quoted that phrase, "the poor are poor because they are poor", and it really struck me, and has stayed in my mind how true
that is. Being poor, in many cases, is a 'state of mind' that apparently is very hard to break out of for many. When you consider all the billions
that have been spent since the "Great Society" began on the programs for the poor, and how little things have changed for the poor since (a few %
points different in "poor" today), I don't think it is money well spent-------there has GOT to be a better way!!! THAT is the "big picture" to me,
anyway
Barry
[Edited on 6-17-2012 by Barry A.] |
Barry, I agree that attitude, confidence, and vision count in getting to the top. It is a nice thing that you got there, I'm happy for you. But luck
and good breaks count too.
It is said that the great thing about America is that anyone can make it to the top.
The flip side is that there is not room at the top for everyone. Many of those who don't get there are hard working, intelligent and earnest folk--
just like you. Some of them may be brighter and more creative than some successful people, but circumstances stand between them and material success.
"The poor are poor because they are poor" is an arrogant, rude and presumptive statement. Some people who lack hutzpah, self-confidence, and good
fortune may be the dark stars who have the answers and the compassion to bring about a better world. If the have-muches listened to the have-nots
instead of dismissing them, they might find themselves arriving at a place of compassion and attention and open-mindedness as opposed to guardedness
and dismissiveness. And they might find their lives improved for doing so.
For the record, I am not poor. And if you choose to reply to my post, please just call me Paula. My name is not, and never was Paula Paula
Paula. 
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Paula-------------"rude, presumptive, and arrogant" were the furthest things from my mind when I heard that statement about the poor-------it was a
kinda resignation by me that no matter how hard we try, and how many different approaches we take, there are simply many in the poor community that do
not appear to respond. My conclusion, after exhausting all possibilities that I could come up with, was that many would stay poor no matter what.
I do have a tendency to 'go on to other things' when I find after a while that my approach is not working----------sorta like the other phrase that
says something like, "the definition of insane is trying the same things over and over again when they simply don't work". If that is any one of the
3 descriptions you gave, then I plead guilty. I have always hated wasting time.
On Edit---------and Paula, I am a long way from "the top". I am just comfortable.
Barry
[Edited on 6-18-2012 by Barry A.]
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Paula
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Posts: 2219
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Barry, Barry, Barry... you and I will never see eye to eye....
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Barry A.
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Mood: optimistic
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I am afraid you are right, Paula (times 3)
Barry
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