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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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| Quote: | [ That's very assuring!! 
I think it is also important for people to realize, when they point fingers at Loreto Bay Co. for servicing concerns like, sewer, water and
electricity that it is actually Fonatur, as part of their 25 year committment to the partnership, that is responsible for providing these services.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Phil and Friend
Yes Phil{ One of the Main Reasons that I "Bugged out" of Loreto that for Virginia and I, who had lived there 17 years full-time, it was starting to
change and be like Newport Beach Calif, Palm Springs, or many other -Places changed by a large group=
I saw the failure of the following all contolled by the Fonatur
Purto Escondido
El Presidente
Golf couse
Tennis club
Nopollo
I met and knew Salvut who offerred me a Job developing up North{ which in my mind may become the best Area}
We had a Multi-million dollar Monstrosity built next door, another is now bing Built on the South side--Just Like palo Verde Calif.
I guess What I am saying is that -You Youngsters can have it all- I hoe that the villages get the water, it will help the people of Loreto, The
Mexicano People who I value much more that some of the Americanos.
Some How in my life i found that I was not a "Groupe" person to live so close .
As to Business of fishing, Fish are getting scrace within 25 Miles of Loreto,with and increase in charters it will certainly strain the Waters.
I predict that there will be a time in the near future when all Fishing will be stopped!!
If enough of the Fish Lovers move into the villages, get together, start their own type of Sierra club, you will see Loreto turn into Illwaco
Washington.
35 years of my life have been spent in andaround L reto. The People are its
Value- The Beauty of its Sea and Mountains is Awesome. It just got crowded with too many people trying to empress others of their Kind that their
Bigger House made them "Bigger"
How sad
Skeet/Loreto
Casa of Mucho Mejures
Mosco
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
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Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Skeet. I'm not completely convinced that "bigger" has anything to do with "keeping up with the Jones", or look at me, I've got more than you. Or,
Bigger House made them "Bigger". In my case, I moved from a 1,500 sq. ft. house two car garage thqat I built in l979, then sold in l990, & built
a four car garage 3,500 sf home. I needed the four car garage for my three cars & motorhome. I need the square feet because I had accumlated
"things" over the years that required more space. I love ping pong. Got a place for it. I love reading. Have a library for the books. I love old
movies. Got a place for them. I love vintage cameras. Got a place for them. Wife likes to paint. Got a room for that. Love my computer & etc.
Got a room for that. I collect things. Got room for that. We worked hard. Saved our money. Invested in real estate rather than gambling over the
years. Light drinkers. (no big booze expenditure) Non smokers. Two things come to light as I write this. A brother in laws folks passed away. Both
were in public school system all their working lives. So nice retirement. BUTTTTTT. They loved traveling all over the world. When they passed away,
huge mortgage on their home. And was a small modest one. Little equity. Very little savings. But they did what they loved to do. Another family that
I know, drive older autos, because they have been investing in the Oregon Lottery big time every payday for years. They like to entertain & spend
big for that. They like going to the area Seven Feathers Casino in Canyonville. And they have not seen "the big one yet". They live from payday to
payday.
The folks that build "bigger homes" aren't always, trying to out do their neighbors. It's an economic thing, as I see it. Some subscribe to the
"don't flaunt it if you've got it". Nothing wrong with that. But what's wrong with being comfortable if you can afford it? IF they are second homes
that are huge. Most likely their "other home" is huge also. I can't imagine someone "over building" a home, just to show off. But that's just my
point of view based on my own personal experiences. Phil S
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jerry
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Registered: 10-10-2003
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in short i feel he who make the bucks get to spend the bucks anyway they see fit
and thats the way it should be capitalism at its best have a good one jerry
jerry and judi
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Skeet/Loreto
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Phils and Jerry; Different strokes for different Folks.
there are many good people who live in Big Houses. Should of said :Folks who act Like they are Bigger just because they build a Big House.
It was the Actions of the Individual that turned me Off.
Next thing I knew they started an Association so they could keep the Mexicans off the Beach in Front.
Sorry I did not mean to to Paint such Broad Brush..
Skeet/Loreto
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Sharksbaja
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Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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A very entertaining thread
It simply amazes me the extent some will go to to assauge their guilt. Big homes are like... so commonplace now it sure doesn't shock or surprise
folks much anymore.
This Loreto growth topic has been thrown back & forth to the tune of rhetoric I'm afraid. We still need "real" solutions not promises.
Grogan & Butterball got to be big chiefs because they know exactly how to play the development game. Unlike some places however their grandiose
plans (and all that follows nearby) will most likely succeed at the rate of Bajas' capitalistic expansion.
If it takes a nuclear power plant to run Baja Sur, well, they just might go for it. Gimme da money! Just think, that little (by some accounts)
project in Loreto may become the behemoth after all. That would make many capitalists happy.
Who gives a crap for "the way it is". Culture and it's inherent society can change overnight. Ask the east cape residents. Look at Rosarito. The new
laws governing ownership of coastal lands has opened up "Pandoras' Box"
Some folks get it and some folks don't!
It ain't rocket science. Common sense plays well on this subject.
I'm just amazed there isn't more.
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
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Mood: Good if fishing
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What's changed in Ilwaco? I've fished out of there for years, but haven't been there in the last 3 years.
[Edited on 12-17-2005 by turtleandtoad]
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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Skeet/Loreto
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Toad
For many years that was one of the busist and Best Salmon fishing Spots in the West!! Many times I went there and had to sleep in my Car as all Hotels
and places to sleep were Full.
Now it is like a Ghost Town as far as fishing is concerned.
It is still good fishing but not anything as it was 15 years ago.
Skeet
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by friend of baja
Thanks for the honest post Phil. I have not met anyone, who after meeting Jim Grogan or David Butterfield, has any other impression other than they
are absolutely committed to the vision of a truly sustainable community. They exude honesty and integrity, which is probably why so many buyers are
existing friends or previous buyers in their developments.
I think it is also important for people to realize, when they point fingers at Loreto Bay Co. for servicing concerns like, sewer, water and
electricity that it is actually Fonatur, as part of their 25 year committment to the partnership, that is responsible for providing these services.
As part of their sustainability vision, Loreto Bay Co. has independently committed to providing more potable water than they use, more power than they
consume and more biodiversity than was there before they came. |
I have met Butterfield. Seems like a nice guy, but I still think his mother dropped him on his head. You may think he exudes honesty and integrity,
but I think his development will exude something else. 
Fonatur is responsible for providing services? Oh come on. If water and electricity is the responsibility of Fonatur, then Loreto Bay's promises of
"sustainable" use and development of those resources is pretty hollow. Good grief, in consecutive sentences you say Fonatur is responsible for water,
then you say Loreto Bay is committed to provide water. And considering Fonatur's record in the Loreto area (Nopolo in general, the "convention
center," Puerto Escondido, Chili Wili's), good luck if the buyers at Loreto Bay are depending on them for anything.
And since the government's (Fonatur's) own estimates predict an increase in Loreto proper's population of 10 people for each unit developed, I should
hope any development is required to provide the city with additional water, as recommended by the university study.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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I just have two questions @ LB ~
Will the homeowners in Loreto Bay be flushing their TP down the toilet?
Or will they be collecting it in a trashbin that their maids will have to clean daily?
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
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It seems to me that the latest trend in developing is the "I am truly a good person and would never do anything against the environment or you to make
more money." That is what people want to hear so that is what is told.
This is not a personal attack on anyone or anyplace, just my take on the latest sales pitch for baby boomers who want to live in exactly the places
they describe.
Only time will tell how it all plays out. But the warm and fuzzy sales pitch is not anything new.
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Packoderm
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I think that environmental consciosness in Mexican resort development is not entirely a farce. The Copacobana in Quintana Roo was built without the
usual obliterating of the existing mangroves. The hotel is set back about a 100 yards with a couple of wooden boardwalks set over the mangroves. Most
of the recreation amenities are set out in front of the beach. I liked this setup in that I didn't feel that I was getting any less of a resort
experience than anybody else because of some guy looking down on me from his overhanging balcony while I was trying to enjoy the beach. I know this is
just a small thing, but I'll take the small concessions over a slap in the face any day.
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jerry
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Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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ok ok loreto is a place a lot of people want to have a place at does anyone here really think that it would be better to develope it miss match as it
has been, piece meal?? like cabo
do you think that a mis guided enviormentalist with a plan is gong to do any worse??
there coming it will be built
have a good one
as for the nuclear power plant i think its one of the most effecent cleanest way of producing energy and its being used all over the world and except
the enviromentalist got there way in the U.S. and now we pay big time
most enviromentalists causes are backed up by big money and fought by well meaning people who think there saving the people from them selves not
realising that it usally backfires and the result is just what big money needed to control a situation.
most things dont just happen by accedent theres a plan
thefishing on the west coast?? to break the little guy so big busness has world controll the US fisherman were sold out to intrest in other countrys
the spotted owl was just a ploy to stop logging on public land so now private land owners, big money have controll the little logger cant servive. so
the seperation between the poor and the ritch is being impowered by the same people that say there trying to save us from ourselves have a good one jerry
jerry and judi
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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I probably shouldn't wade in... but
but.... Loreto is still a nice town with many good local people (and the friendliest cats and dogs in Baja).
And I don't have to tell any of you, how beautiful the mountains, sea, and area are.
I fell in Love with Loreto the first time I was there - a couple decades ago.... I was travelling on the cheap, a student, in an old VW Camper that
I built an engine for... And after a couple days and nights in Loreto, I decided.... SOMEday, I would love to be able to spend more time here.
Loreto has always been a special place for me. CSL once was also, but... that was waaaaay back.
So, after working these last 25 years as a musician, teacher, and counselor, my wife and I ARE going to spend more time in Loreto, and we feel
fortunjate to be able to do so.
Like Skeet, we're not "big development" types... We love the international, language, and cultural experiences and learning that we experience in
"old" Loreto, in Mexico, and also where we've travelled in Asia and Europe.
So, we're buying in town.... I'll be down in Feb. to close, and I feel prety darn lucky.... (I guess I feel MORE so while it is 0 degrees F. today,
with a foot of snow in my yard here in N. Idaho...  ...)
A community is place and people. I still love Loreto - the place. And I'm thankful for my few friends there, and hope to make many more in the years
ahead. My wife's genuine warmth, handmade Asian cooking, (the best sushi rolls) and her love of life and adventure will have you stopping by to say
hi (and "mmmm WHAT is that wonderful smell?...." in no time. We welcome new friends and new perspectives and always love good stories.
With the Loreto Bay Development bringing many newbies into the area (good or bad... it seems to be happening..) I hope those of you who've loved
Loreto a long time will help them "adjust" - and appreciate what it is that has made and still makes Loreto a special place.
[Edited on 12-19-2005 by djh]
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Anonymous
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ill bet that all the accadents (human Life) loss with nucular power wont wont add up anything compared to the oil industry more lives lost on drilling
piping and refining by 10 fold and just add all the other deathes like the war polution, as an clean, safeand econamical resorce its the best
hell look at the rest of the world while we sit with our finger in our noses
we gave the world the tecnoligy but were too stupid to use it our selves when our ecoligists could have made a real mark against polution they could
see the forest for the trees and were lead down the road by big money oil have a good one jerry
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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DJH
Love your attitude and would like to get to know you. Let us know when you plan to get here and maybe we get together and talk about the goings-on
here over a libation. Been here for 13 years permanent and love the place. My wife says, she wouldn't live anywhere else, and weve been all over.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
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Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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Anonymous
Knew it was you Jerry by your writing style. Please , don't try writing a book.
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Sharksbaja
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Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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That's a good attitude djh
You will surely be a welcome addition. Most likely you will enjoy Loreto for years to come. The fact that so many are seeking solace elsewhere does
hint strongly at the pace of change however.
What appeals to you now may change faces over the next ten years in a big way. The unfortunate downside like I've said many times before is the
magnetic attraction these developments have. Of course if you are comfortable with new stuff springing up all over the area, then I would think you
will be happy then as you are now. Not trying to pop your bubble.
The huge amount of publicity this development has garnered is rich fodder for the big wheels of progress. If you dial in to what the realtors are
experiencing right now you would feel the rush. It's like cathing a cold except only for the developers. Spreads like a virus with no cure.
I love Loreto too and trust you do also. I know YOU won't be the monger of tourists and wealthy transplants. Don't trust the big guys, they speak out
of their burros. It's all about da money. JMHO
jerry, i agree with you about nuke power plants. The science has gotten much better and it may be possible soon to make the risk(s) considerably less.
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Skeet/Loreto
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DJH
Thanks for having the right attitude about Loreto; The Good people and their children will , I hope, make Loreto in the years to come as they have in
the years past- A good Place.
I still miss Alvaro Murillo-Fisherman-Sea expert- Father of 5 Girls-Friend-and just an all around good Guy.
Rodridgo, Mundo, Bianco all who helped Virginia and I to build Rancho Sonrisa.--Manuel M, Dr. Collins, Arturo Sucrey, Domingo Pres.
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jerry
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Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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vandenburg  never fear
jerry and judi
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