| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
Beercan, I disagree with the idea that there is nothing that can ever be done. With anti-immigrant sentiment running so high, it is not unthinkable
that the treatment of expats living in Mexico could enter the equation for a solution in the U.S./Mexico border dilemma. We could say, "You don't
want to treat our people well, so we will close the border, shut down money-wiring infrastructure, and you (Mexico) will have accept that wages earned
by Mexicans living in the U.S. will stay in the U.S.." It's possible - it's not just a bunch of Kumbaya.
|
|
|
Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Packoderm,
They were already there....The Baron Bush Family.
Welcome home Mr. BillM, I've missed you terribly!
Kapitan Georgio Kruschev
ahhhhh, Imagine.
Got real tired of being three steps to the right of Attila the Hun, toooo many changes in The Land of Wealth.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
|
|
|
MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
|
|
And the Winner is...........Pacman !
*******************.
PacKo:
.............."With anti-immigrant sentiment running so high, it is not unthinkable that the treatment of expats living in Mexico could enter the
equation for a solution in the U.S./Mexico border dilemma. We could say, "You don't want to treat our people well, so we will close the border, shut
down money-wiring infrastructure, and you (Mexico) will have accept that wages earned by Mexicans living in the U.S. will stay in the U.S.........."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, where to start ? To begin with, the interest by the U.S. Federal Government in how well U.S. expats living in Mexico are treated in terms of land
purchase RIGHTS has to be somewhere around ZERO.. But, are you really serious when you hypothesize that the U.S. should tie those
Land Rights issues to the treatment of ILLEGAL Immigrants WITHIN the U.S. ? In other words, IF Mexico will be NICE and reform those rules we will, in
turn, tolerate the ongoing Illegal Immigrant problem ? That "Carrot" is the alternative to your "Stick". Given that the polls (all) show roughly 70
% support for closing down the border to illegal immigration and the vast majority of U.S. voters don't even know anyone living an ex-pat life in
Mexico, that idea has to rank right up at the top of *********** political moves. Turst me, it's not going to happen.
Thanks for your interest, Komrade Kapitan, it gladdens my heart to know that I've been missed.
[Edited on 7-17-2006 by BajaNomad]
|
|
|
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
I'm just saying that it isn't fantasyland to get such legislation enacted. For one thing, you don't even know what the U.S. government wants or does
not want. It is so secretive right now. You like to think because you believe you are on the same side as the very rich conservatives (in at least the
double digit millions $) who run things, you are in the loop - but you are not. Also, it wasn't that long ago (about ten years ago I beleive) that
they tried to get expats to be able to live in virtually tax exempt status. Remember that? Like I said, you don't really know what is likely to come
down the pike.
|
|
|
MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
|
|
Musings and Meanderings
Living far from any of the "Pikes", I have no idea what is coming down any of them, other than trash and excrement.
It's a familiar refrain from the Looney Left that the U.S. Government is uninterested in large groups of citizens living Within the
United States. Keeping that in mind, what in the World would make you think that there would be any serious interest in a relatively small and
insignificant group of people such as the Ex-Pats in Mexico ?
I know my memory could be fading as I enter the Twilight years, but I have absolutely NO memory of any serious thought given by the
Federal Government in extending any sort of tax relief or exemption to citizens living abroad. I would challenge anyone making such a statement to
provide some corroboration other than "I seem to remember". I have a healthy doubt that said event ever occurred. You're welcome to "attempt" to
show different. Remember, I am saying "serious". In the U.S. House, especially, a multitude of bills are submitted each year with no hope of any
serious consideration. Most are simply introduced to pander to some segment of the home district populace.
As far as my having an inside track on what the Government is doing or thinking, obviously my only insight comes from my insatiable interest in
gathering political news as I it find interesting. I have long been accused of being a political "Junkie" starting in my High School days and
continuing unabated.
Those Wascally Multimillionaire NeoCon villains..................
You are aware, aren't you, that there are MORE Democrats than Republicans in the U.S. Congress who are Millionaires ? That has been the case for a
great number of years.
|
|
|
Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
|
|
Bill, there are powerful forces at work here and you seem to be the only one who sees them, knows what they mean. Mexicans will send home 20 billion
$$s this year, Pemex is upsidedown by 55 billion $, timeshares are selling like, well, like timeshares (60 million $s a month in Cabo por ejemplo --
not chump change). The $400 bucks we all pay the banks is less than a fancy sconse for the entranceway on new Cabo house. Gringos living in Mexico
are no more than pesky pulgas in the whole scheme of things. I'm a happy one, happy to see the peso stable, happy to hear shouting, not guns on the
streets of D.F., happy about the relatively peaceful handover there. Grumblers and whiners are spending too much time doing that and not nearly
enough time reading the news.
|
|
|
Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
|
|
Trick question. Like what's the world wide average cost of an apple or a gallon of gas? Privately held land probably still accounts for a very small
percentage of all land held under sovereignty. There are as many ways land can be held and sold as there are forms of governments. Mexican Ejidal
laws probably look inequitable or clumsy until one looks at all the ways sovereign land is eventually distributed to the private sector, then we might
applaud the simplicity of the process. I came here because the land was cheap -- I paid $25,000 (with a house on it) for the land that is close to
the shore (I can make the walk in about 3 minutes -- it takes me 10 cause I like to dawdle -- I'm a world class dawdler).
|
|
|
Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
|
|
Osprey dawdl all you want I enjoy reading about it
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
 |
|
|
Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bajatastic
|
|
Point
| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
War is war, they lost, get over it, they're lucky we didn't take it all. |
Counterpoint
| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
the locals "should" be sympathizing more with the gringos... |
Point
| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
I worked in all the major ghettos in NYC and became so tired of the plight of the people being blamed on everything and everyone other then
themselves. |
Counterpoint
| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
As for the poor Mexicans living in the hills outside Cabo, let their government raise their minimum wage above five dollars a day.
|
Capt. , you've made some very valid points in your arguments; but, I've pointed out a few inconsistencies. You must realize Mexico is another
country; not subject to our laws, customs, or rights. You are a guest there. Their guest.
Sure we could increase Mexico's GNP through foreign investment; but, the Mexican government would rather see rich mexicans living on the beach or
developing it than rich gringos. You really can fault them for that. They realize once land is sold and developed by foreign corporations they will
lose money when the corporations send money back to their "Madres". They would rather see mexican corporations develop the land. If our goverment
wants to give away the farm, they should as well? I don't think the Mexican government will agree with your logic.
Yes we did take half of their country and then sold weapons to both sides of several of their revolutions afterwards. You should count yourself lucky
they still treat us well after all the meddling in thier internal affairs, violence, and suffering we have contributed to in Mexico over the years.
As pointed out by others here, foreigners are not permited to engage in political protests in Mexico. This is in part due to past meddling by
outsiders in their politics. For some reason, based on brutal and violent experience, they believe outsiders will not have Mexico's best interests in
mind. So your idea of a pettition should be considered with extreme caution.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
"What's right is right"!!! |
You're right; but, don't neglect the reality of karma. Because things have not allways been right to everyone equally. "Right" can often depend on
who's shoes you are standing in, and who's holding the bigger stick, and thats not really right is it? I'm sure there are a lot of poor mexicans that
would like to have Texas back.
"Generally the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation [of Texas] was consummated or not; but not so all of them. For myself, I
was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a
weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to
acquire additional territory." - Ulysses S. Grant
[Edited on 7-17-2006 by Mango]
|
|
|
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
What goes around doesn't always come around
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
You're right; but, don't neglect the reality of karma. |
Karma, at least what most in the west define as karma, is the furthest thing from reality. Newton's third law does not apply.
|
|
|
Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bajatastic
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
You're right; but, don't neglect the reality of karma. |
Karma, at least what most in the west define as karma, is the furthest thing from reality. Newton's third law does not apply.
|
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." - Newtons third law. (Newton was talking about objects, not people's psyche)
"Karma (Sanskrit: ; from the root kr;, "to do", [meaning deed] meaning action, effect, destiny) is a term that comprises the entire cycle of cause and
effect. Karma is a sum of all that an individual has done, is currently doing and will do. The effects of all deeds actively create present and future
experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain in others. In religions that incorporate reincarnation, karma extends
through one's present life and all past and future lives as well." - Wikipedia
Karma is not about objects. It is about people, what they do, how they do it, and the effects of those actions upon others and in turn, themselves.
The main point in my previous post is that you can not expect mexicans to treat you as we treat each other. They are mexicans, not gringos. They
have their own reasons for doing what they do.
My secondary point was that we should not expect the Mexican government to have our best intrest in mind when history shows that we have not had their
best interest in mind. They, as we, take care of their own first.
Call it karma, the golden rule, threefold law, or common sense. If you study the history of Mexico you will find that as a nation it has had many not
so pleasant interactions with other nations and powers. France, USA, Brittan, and Spain have all invaded Mexico at least once and often more than
once.
Is this the reason they don't let foreigners own land on the coast? No, but I believe it explains one reason they are protective against what
foreigners can and will do in their country as a whole.
|
|
|
Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Welcome to the board Mango,
They take care of their own first....I wish they would...we seem to be taking more care of "their own" then they are..
What a stimulating thread..
REMEMBER THE ALAMO!
I don't know about you, but I was a "live-in, paying GUEST" of Mexico for 2 1/2 years. Never considered myself more. Still should have the right to a
quit claim deed. I earned my money the old fashioned way, I worked like a dog since I was twelve.
What's good for the goose..........
As for selling weapons to both sides, we still do, to paraphrase a song; "All Over the World". We're a Captilist, Industrialist government...It is
what it is. Has nothing to do with legally paid for, agreed upon by both parties, land transfer and proper deeds. We are who we are and we do what we
do....but at least within "our" borders, people have a right to "own" their property.
War, what is it good for? NUTTIN! Viet Vet
Mango, first, welcome to the board, second, your views cause thought and ( and that is always a good thing) third etc, but by no means, least.
Have you ever lived in Mexico?, Have you ever purchased land here?
Have you ever lived peacefully among it's people for more then a year?
How often do you visit and how much dinero a year do you spend across the border?
Buen Dia el Vikingo de Punta Abreojos
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
|
|
|
flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
|
|
I am glad that I studied the history of Mexico and have a good understanding why the laws of Mexico are the laws of this land. The short story is
that the people of what is now Mexico were conquored by outsiders who took everything they had and ruled over them and used them as slaves or peons.
This have vs. have not society has lasted for over 500 years and is very pronounced here more so than it is in the US. I speak of the US because I'm
a US citizen and its the country I know. A sort of rectification of years of abuse of the masses by the elite is the principle behind the Ley Federal
de Trabajo and the Ley Federal de Agraria (land laws) also the fact that there are certain jobs and businesses that cannot be owned by a non Mexican
entity.
with that said, the Mexican land laws are complicated to non Mexicans (also to Mexicans) and they are somewhat to a disadvantage to foreigners. In
order for Mexico to remain autonomous, Mexico needs to make its own laws and not bend to foreign pressure. Changes here are made with a voice of the
masses and foreigners owning land outright, is not to the advantage of the typical Baja Californiano of Mexican for the reasons that Jesse already
explained.
Many of you are foreigners like myself (non Mexican). But many of you do not really live among the Baja Californianos and do not really know them.
Heck, I'm married to one and every day learn something very new. We (non Mexicans) are not like them (Mexicans). Although the US and Mexico shares a
huge border which is somewhat porous, we are very different people.
The way I see it is that a foreigner CAN own property safely and securely...its called a FIDEICOMISO (sp? my bad). Now if you "own" property any
other way you are breaking the law and if you lose it don't come crying to me.
So what's the big problem here?
|
|
|
bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
Member Is Offline
|
|
Pam
You got it. I have been following this thread thinking that I would stay out of it but here is my conclusion:
Its their football.....if you dont want to play by their rules dont get in the game.
|
|
|
Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
|
|
Read A Biography of Power, The History of Mexico by Enrique Krauss. The best modern history book perhaps ever written about Mexico.
|
|
|
Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Bajajudy are you a land owner in Mexico? if so how FC?
Pam, you're married to a Mexican no problema para tu. You're children are fully protected as your heirs.....mine are not, therefore:
I simply will not buy another property in Mexico. Will vacation and spend minimum dollars....
I am so tired of yesterdays news...Oh the Spanish, oh the gringos, oh how we were mistreated 4000 years ago! What a bunch of crap. Has nothing to do
with fair and equitable BUSINESS dealings.
I was working at 11 and living in 4 rooms with 8 people in NYC. My grandparents were immigrants that were used and abused by the system, what has
thatgot to do with me today? Nothing.....oh what was done to us is nothing more then a cop out.......
How about in the US, oh poor us, we were slaves 300 years ago, where's my "benefits"? what a bunch of crap. adios. will go to Alaska and buy land
that comes with a deed! Oops, the poor Eskimos, Tinglets etc...blah, blah, blah.
that's it for me on this thread.
George
I wish you all a pleasant and safe Fidio Comiso...
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
|
|
|
bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
that's it for me on this thread.
George
|
I hope so - no one likes to hear a cry baby all the time
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
|
|
Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by djh
.... (I would love to have witnessed the writing of the law ! ! - and who was involved in it...)
|
I heard this: Mexican banks had been hurting, too few deposits, too little loan activity, too little profit. Yet by Mexican law it is unlawful for a
Mexican bank to fail. They needed another source of revenue. Enter the fido...some initial paperwork is the only needed investment, then 50 to 100
years, or more, of steady annual profit at virtually no expense. Heck of a deal.
Now whether or not that really had anything to do with writing the law, you can count on the banking industry continuing to support the fideocomiso
laws.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
I wish you all a pleasant and safe Fidio Comiso... |
Haha! I hope so.
Or maybe someday a petition will circulate, signed by Mexican citizens, questioning the defacto ownership of all the waterfront land by gringos when
their constitution seems to expressly prohibit that. 
|
|
|
JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
I am so tired of yesterdays news...Oh the Spanish, oh the gringos, oh how we were mistreated 4000 years ago! What a bunch of crap. Has nothing to do
with fair and equitable BUSINESS dealings.
|
You shouldn't be, many of the main aspects of american society are a direct result of past history, as they are with most societies. You can't expect
a society that has experienced the invasion of other powers, and that has lost an incredible amount of their territory to them, to behave in the exact
same way as one that has been the invader. Fact is, many foreigners are making good money in Mexico, Mexico is full of business oportunities, if you
don't like the rules, its simple, don't play.
|
|
|
Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
I won't, anymore. The rest of you can play Ostrich, I'm done.
Read Poland by James Michener
Now there's the real deal. Talk about being conquered and coming back! No whining there.
Jesse, enjoyed the debate with most of you, but alas, with pathetic and unthought of comments by such as Bajalou, I shall not bother any longer.
OOOOH, I'm gonna go cry now... Capt George
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
