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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
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Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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i think day travel to Mexico will decrease by 75%
now think...
where will these people go to make their money to live?
do you think they will cross to the US legally?
will crime increase because of lack of funds?
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MrBillM
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Leaving the U.S.
Many years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court, ruling on a case involving travel to Cuba, decreed that a U.S. citizen has the RIGHT to leave the country and
go anywhere on earth that he/she pleased. However, the government DID have the right to enforce requirements and sanctions for and upon re-entering
the country.
The principal question in that case was whether or not the government could enforce prohibitions regarding travel to a specific country, but the
ruling also made it clear that the government could set no conditions regarding a citizen leaving the U.S., absent any legal proceedings which would
prohibit that person from leaving a specific venue, of course.
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wilderone
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Essentially, the government cannot infringe on your constitutional right to free travel. The Cuba thing was a question of a US citizen violating the
embargo currently in place which prohibits US citizens from spending money in Cuba. So when a US citizen would be trying to return to the US, customs
would be trying to determine if the citizen had actually spent money - i.e., stayed in a hotel, paid for taxis, bought trinkets, which would be the
illegal activity -- not traveling to Cuba, per se. Traveling with a religious, humanitarian, cultural or arts-associated NGO is allowed, however. So
customs assumes if you don't have documents to show that you are affiliated with some approved group, then you spent money, violating the law. If
your passport isn't stamped showing that you entered or left Cuba (which Cuba customs is totally cooperative with), and you have absolutely nothing on
your person evidencing that you were there, then Customs has nothing to act upon.
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MrBillM
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Si Si
Since the question that arose on this thread regarded whether or not a citizen's departure could be conditioned on having a document, I addressed the
"Cuban" court decision ONLY as it related to that point, feeling that the other ramifications were not on point.
Wilderone is correct.
The Attorney General's argument in the case was that the government could restrict a citizen's right to travel to specific countries deemed by the
State Department to be inimical to the U.S. The Supreme court disagreed, saying that a citizen's right to travel could not be restricted in any way.
If, however, it could be shown upon re-entry that said person had contributed to the economic viability of said countries, sanctions could be imposed
subject to the "Humanitarian, etc" exemptions.
The bottom line is that any attempt to require a citizen to show documents (passports) when departing would run afoul of that decision. Of course, it
is a different Supreme Court now.
As an aside on the Cuban decision, I later read an article in a sailing magazine promoting travel to Cuba that, upon entry, the Cuban immigration
authorities would use a plain piece of paper to stamp your entry so that you could throw it away before returning to the U.S., leaving no evidence in
your passport that you had been there.
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DianaT
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Renewed our passports by mail this year---no problem and we find it easier just to have the passports. Our old passports have stamps from Mexico, but
we haven't had one stamped for a long time.
Some of the people who really oppose the passport idea are the ones who live with one foot on either side of the border. For some families, it will
be quite expensive, and in places like Calexico, the families are on both sides and walk back and forth daily. They are hoping for a cheaper ID
card arrangement.
Diane
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Al G
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Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Just got back from Post office and was told my new passport will have a new "chip" embedded on the last page that is encrypted and can be scanned for
positive ID. Now why can they not put one in a ID card that is easy to carry like a drivers license. This old fashion passport was made in the day of
the rich traveler and was carried in a suit jacket pocket. Wore one in Baja lately??
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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ElGato
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Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca.
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"New" Passport
 The new passport with a chip has an RFID(radio frequency identification device)
that can be rread from a distance id-ing you before you even know it. It can track your movements all over an airport and give out all info about you
in the passport. It can be compromised if wrapped in aluminium foil. Eventually the powers that be want all tickets and bags taged with RFID's. All
id such as drivers license, credit cards, insurance cards, etc will have RFID's. Welcome to
"a brave new world". A. Huxley was right!
Baja Joe  |
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MrBillM
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Paranoia ?
RFIDs read from a distance to keep track of citizens ? A new conspiracy to subjugate and enslave the populace ? The spector of an evil, all-knowing,
oppresive government oligarchy ?
ALL of the RFIDs I've come into contact with in the business world are pretty low-power devices that can be read from a very short distance, sometimes
only upon contact. Without FACTUAL evidence to the contrary, I would assume that the Passport RFIDs are the same. If not, the technology to
ascertain that field of ID would be pretty simple to achieve. I'm sure that there will be Liberal interests trembling in anticipation of being able
to do so and expose this nefarious plot.
Until I hear something from those Liberal Saviors backed up by FACTS, I'll simply assume that it's a more efficient way of processing necessary
information a la the grocery stores.
For all of his literary Paranoia, Huxley missed the boat. Twenty-two years past and we aren't anywhere close to his predictions.
Speaking only for myself, I haven't gone anywhere that I would be concerned about the Government knowing. If it can help stop Abdul from blowing
himself and a lot of others to pieces, I'm all for it. If you're DEAD, you don't have ANY liberties at all.
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ElGato
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 I am showing a site that will give you an idea of the future with RFID's,
but it goes way beyond this. It will involve everything you do from clothing to food, from birth to death. This site is video and takes about 2-3
minutes to load but its worth the wait. When I first heard about this stuff I thought it was fantasy or bull but as a retired airline worker I have
seen a demo of it. It's real and is eventually going into every aspect of our life and you won't even know its there. Here is the site:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/August2006/150806RFID-E...
htm
Please copy as shown. after *Enabled is .htm
Baja Joe |
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ElGato
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http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/August2006/150806RFID-E...
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BajaGeoff
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There is a new passport that is going to be available that is a card instead of a booklet. The new passport card will be able to fit into your wallet,
like a driver's license, making it easy to carry. It will be perfect for frequent travelers who cross land borders between the U.S., Mexico, and
Canada. The card will be a less expensive alternative to a passport, yet it meets the requirements of a passport when traveling by land. The new card
will use biometic technology meaning it will have a computer chip containing the information of the traveler as well as a digital image of the them.
Cost is estimated at $50 but since the program is still in the early stages that could change.
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BajaGeoff
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Forgot to mention.....they plan on having this up and running by the end of the year....
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MrBillM
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Prisonplanet ?
I guess the name of the website says it all.
Assuming for a moment that the worst case premise is correct i.e. that the "Government" could track your movements on a daily basis to put to
"whatever" purpose, where are you going and what are you doing that you don't want
known ? I doubt they'll be installing sensors at the local brothel. That might be worrisome, but not to me, of course.
I've been sitting here thinking over my movements in the recent past and I can't think of a single instance where the government knowing that
information would have worked to my detriment.
One could assume that those who are worried are doing something to be worried about .
Personally, I'm a little sick and tired of the ACLU cadre who are more worried about Abdul and Mohammed being given stricter attention at the airport
than they are about the plane being blown up, restricting the occupants civil liberties for all time.
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ElGato
Junior Nomad
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Location: Santa Cruz, Ca.
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Passports/RFID's
The name of the website is Spychips.com. PrisonPlanet is where it was
posted. The govt/TSA have a legitimate right to passport info,but the spying from afar seems creepy. The future of RFID's is with the private sector.
Eventually almost everything we use or buy will have them in or on them. All private info will be available to anyone who can read it, in or out of an
airport. Example- Most cars presently have data recorders like planes. This info is available in case of accidents or violations. In effect you
testify against yourself.
Huxley was giving a preview of the future.
Baja Joe |
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MrBillM
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Still Uncreeped
IF the WORST example that can be cited at present is the Data Recorders in a vehicle being used to determine fault, I remain unimpressed. Perhaps
that's because I haven't had a chargeable accident since I was a teenager and the last time I got a speeding ticket was on an isolated I10 near Indio
in the 70s when the speed limit was lowered from 70 to 55. I was doing 65, which I pointed out to the CHP was legal a couple of months before. I
still got the ticket. I'll leave it to the fast and/or careless drivers to be worried about "testifying" against themselves.
I'm also not worried about ANYBODY knowing what foodstuffs or products I buy, what movies I watch, which books I read, etc, etc, etc.
What are you people doing ?
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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I am recording this... jajajajaja te cuides
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ElGato
Junior Nomad
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I must say I am surprised by those that can live their lives with
personal business in the open. I have aspects of my personal life while not illegal that I want kept private.
Los golpes diferentes para gente differentes.
Baja Joe |
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
I'm also not worried about ANYBODY knowing what foodstuffs or products I buy, what movies I watch, which books I read, etc, etc, etc.
What are you people doing ? |
Beware. people...
Identity Theft, year 2010:
Someone got a Safeway card in MY NAME, and over the last month bought 24 quarts of Cherry Garcia ice cream, 15 lbs of assorted steaks, 12 bags of Ore
Ida french fries, four dozen donuts, 12 quarts of WHOLE milk, and four cartons of Marlboros. Now my health insurance premium has doubled, and my life
insurance has been canceled.
Oh, and when I complained, someone in the government found me on a routine survelance tape, picking my nose and scratching my behind. They emailed it
to my workplace, and posted it on a funny video site on the internet.
Uh-oh, I'm off topic here.
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MrBillM
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Apples and Oranges
You're correct. "Identity Theft" is a different topic.
The spread of Identity theft has come primarily as a result of widespread use of the Internet for Banking, Business and consumer purchases rather than
Government Surveillance. Because I worry about ID theft, too, I am very careful about sharing critical ID info with any of the vendors I deal with.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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Don's ID theft at Safeway. Jeez! With a diet like that they won't be around long.
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