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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Thanks BahaNomad for posting the Greenpeace site. I went there and read what this protest is about. I hope all Nomads will go to the site and read
what they are attempting to accomplish. As to the issue of lawbreaking, if one is to believe what is stated on the Greenpeace site, the contractors
have already broken the law by polluting the wetland they are destroying. Wetlands are the backbone of coastal ecosystems.
Ilfyfish
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Thanks BahaNomad for posting the Greenpeace site. I went there and read what this protest is about. I hope all Nomads will go to the site and read
what they are attempting to accomplish. As to the issue of lawbreaking, if one is to believe what is stated on the Greenpeace site, the contractors
have already broken the law by polluting the wetland they are destroying. Wetlands are the backbone of coastal ecosystems.
Ilfyfish |
Yeah very cool site. I joined and became an Oceandefender. I need to checkout Angels of the wetlands too. These people are taking action to protect
something they love and is important to everyone.
[Edited on 12-7-2006 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64858
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Let's hope the Greenpeace ship 'Rainbow Warrior' doesn't destroy any more natural habitat like it did in the South Pacific, smashing into a coral reef
(those don't get replaced easily)... "on accident"... If it wasn't there in the first place, that coral reef would still be there.
Giving people your opinion is a good thing (freedom of speech)... Interfering with a local economy, defacing landmarks with banners, acting
self-rightous is not... (in my opinion)
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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in my opinion the greenpeacers have just found some more sheep to fleece
jerry and judi
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Ever heard the term "follow the money"? Who stands to gain from the
development of an area? It's hard to understand "the progress at any cost"
mindset. If you destroy what makes a place special it's not special anymore.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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send me enoff money and ill hire a writer to write a artical and lawers to start a law suit to protect the sheep from themselves  
jerry and judi
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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There are only "Sheep, SheepDogs, and Wolves"
Which are you!!
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
There are only "Sheep, SheepDogs, and Wolves"
Which are you!! |
I would guess that I am all three
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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ya just change your cloths skeet lol
jerry and judi
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18404
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Giving people your opinion is a good thing (freedom of speech)... Interfering with a local economy, defacing landmarks with banners, acting
self-rightous is not... (in my opinion) |
If everybody sat back and followed the rules and acted like a rule-abiding little girl, then the rapists would never stop to even blink. Rapists in
cahoots with politicians don't care for polite opinion.
If it weren't for people taking strong action and occasionally stirring things up in the US, you wouldn't have had the civil rights act, the clean
water act, the clean air act and RCRA (do you remember LA smog? remember some rivers before the CWA? remember jim crow laws?),... and if it weren't
for people taking to the world stage you would probably have seen the extinction of many whale and dolphin species.
The world is full of old sticks-in-the-mud, and thank god for groups like Greenpeace that feel strongly enough about a cause to get a little
self-righteous!
Peace out!
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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and another fleece in my opinion
the good old i got mine screw you idea
jerry and judi
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
you cant say it is OK to brake the law just because there cause is good. and it is not OK to heart some one just because they don't agree with you.
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The higher good wins -- and if that involves breaking the law, it's up for breaking.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
you cant say it is OK to brake the law just because there cause is good. and it is not OK to heart some one just because they don't agree with you.
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The higher good wins -- and if that involves breaking the law, it's up for breaking.
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I think Hitler sead something like that
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
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Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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Elementary...
I have no soapbox to stand on...
I do work with elementary school kids...
One of the things I teach is conflict resolution. And "rules for fighting fair"...
One of the things the kids find helpful is "attack the problem, NOT the person"...
I also teach about "I language" (avoids endless name calling and blame game...
ex: I think/feel/observe _____ when ______ because _____ and I want _____.
Name calling and marginalizing others (who have a different opinion, view, perspective, or feeling about something) is counterproductive.. and
generally further distances & isolates people... it is cyclical.
In the US a 2 party system that propogandizes "their own" and marginalizes "the others" is seriously weakening what was always perceived by the most
of the rest of the world as an example to learn from. Diverse views CAN bring much to discussion and outcomes when there is respect and
understanding. (notice I didn't say cream puff compromise and chameleon positions...)
Many of us could learn a bit from some of our bright 3rd and 4th graders...!!
Offerring something to consider for any who care to....
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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Thank you, David.
Another thread that has potential for becoming inflamatory has gone for over 260 posts without doing so. It would be nice to see a friendly
discussion here too.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Conflict Resolution
As Charles Colson once said (before he was "Saved"):
"If you've got them by the Balls, their Hearts and Minds will Follow".
AMEN.
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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No suprises there...
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Just follow your heart and do the right thing. Oh, what's that? The tin man doesn't have a heart? When the uncaring condone the destruction of our
environment and incite ridicule against those who are brave enough to take a stand, it makes me angry. You know the way anger manifests when I get my
hackles up? Well I don't waste my time on the haters. They already drank the cool aid. I renew my membership with Greenpeace!!!!!! Sorta like the
anger that welled up during the election...when open minded people; Liberals, Conservatives and middle of the roaders stood up and opposed the Neocon
Tyrants. pee me off and I'll take action! Sorry, haters.
[Edited on 12-8-2006 by toneart]
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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djh, I like that. Reminds me of the "All I Needed To Learn I Learned In Kindergarten. I cannot quote it but maybe someone else can.
I think that those raising the issue about breaking the law have a legitimate point. So do those who advocate non violent civil disobedience as a
means of accomplishing social change. These are legitimate differences of opinion. Those who engage in peaceful non violent civil disobedience need to
be prepared to face concequences for their actions.
There are those who advocate for unbridled development. There are those who advocate for no development. There are those who advocate for some sort of
controlled development. There is inherent in the development of any area a conflict between various constituencies with vested interests in the
outcome.
Bruce says there is a need for as many ports as possible. He is advocating for the commercial and recreational needs that projects like this generate.
Who advocates for the needs of the wetlands, birds and mammals, or the environment? It is not in the self-interest of the developer to take into
consideration the degradation that might occur along with the project. The developers concerns are that there is a profit in the enterprise and the
larger the better. It is appropriate that the developer advocate for his interest. If the environment is to be protected then there must be some
entity advocating for it. Who is that legitimate entity? Would there not be resistance on the part of those advocating unbridled development no matter
who raised that voice?
Someone had better advocate for the natural environment or it will be gone. You can count on that. You have read on these site scientific predictions
of the sea running out of fish. You have seen on this site how people have over fished and are destroying the resource. You have seen in your own
community that there are people who care not at all for the needs of other people let alone the environment. There are people in power who would
exploit Baja and not give a hoot for the impact on the environment. Who will advocate for the environment?
Some have talked about Greenpeace defacing the rock. That is a removable banner. Who can replace the wetlands when they are gone? Who will care? They
have brought this issue to the attention of those who live there and to us Nomads. They are doing their part to advocate for the environment.
The idea of some sort of Nature Conservancy has real merit. It has been successful in our area in saving some vital habitat. In a world where people
can own land and do what they want with it there must be safeguards for the community at large.
Iflyfish
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
I renew my membership with Greenpeace!!!!!! Sorta like the anger that welled up during the election...when open minded people; Liberals, Conservatives
and middle of the roaders stood up and opposed the Neocon Tyrants. pee me off and I'll take action! Sorry, hater [Edited on 12-8-2006 by toneart]
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The greatest possible good for the greatest possible number of individuals is more St. Thomas Aquinas than Hitler.
In the best case scenario, the "greatest possible number of individuals" would mean all humans.
Greenpeace might have stopped Charles Scammon from reducing the whale population from 30,000 to 2,000 in 10 years.
Questioning, and challenging custom, is sometimes good.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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