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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Paula, like you I would be in awe and wonder if I got the chance to see what you did. I did a lot of research on the paintings and as for your
question "what was the geography like when they were painted?" the glyphs tell the scientists that the rainfall was probably about what it is today --
the desert varnish bacteria cannot compete with lichen so where it is found (these would be about 7,500 years old) it's either/or and the glyphs are
there for us to see. It takes about 10,000 years to make the dark covering of the rocks and I think science is beginning to use that date to age date
glyphs that are fading (taking back the space that was scratched off).
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Neal Johns
Super Nomad
Posts: 1687
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: In love!
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I note that everyone is happy with the guides.
Me too!
Most of them speak little English, but never fail to take really good care of you. Great people. No surprise there, we have found all the backcountry
people like that.
A good read if you can find it, is Harry Crosby's Last of the Californios.
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"On a multi-day trip, are you expected to take care of the guides meals...?"
You can negotiate it any way you want. If you can contribute part of their meals, the price comes down a bit. If you hike, payment for an extra mule
is still required for evacuation purposes. If you keep your gear down, you don't need as many mules to carry it. On our trip, we had hiked ahead of
the mules to our last night's destination while the guides loaded up the animals. They were very late getting in. It was after dark, and we made a
fire and waited and wondered - they had our dinners! Finally, they arrived. What happened was that one of the mules slipped and fell over a steep
cliff. They had to rescue him. One of our guides told us that they have to keep night watch for moutain lions, because they'll attack the mules
which are tied up. Our organizer explained to us before we left, that we could leave anything that we didn't want to bring back home for the guides'
families. We made a big pile: I ditched my boots, a tarp, some cookies, toothpaste, etc. I'd do it again fer shur.
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Neal Johns
Super Nomad
Posts: 1687
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: In love!
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Good on you, wilderone!
Look around, they are sure not getting rich with the cheap prices they get. Marian gave one of her hearing aids to one of our guides.
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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jeans
Super Nomad
Posts: 1059
Registered: 9-16-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Encantada
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Jeans,
Please share with us your training schedule. After our mule trip into the Grand Canyon my only complaint was saddle sores.
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The training I referred to was for the hiking involved, not the riding. All of the caves are half way up the canyon walls. You can't ride right up
to them. Also, there are parts of the trail where you have to dismount and lead the mule...uphill. You want to be able to move faster than the mule.
I had no problem with saddle sores, but not for the reason alluded to by a certain boney-a***d aridologist. (meant in a most loving way, of
course...missed you last weekend, Neal).
The saddle happened to fit me. If the seat is too wide, it is very uncomfortable on the ischiums (the bottom of your pelvis). Inexperienced riders
sit heavy in the saddle, with all of their weight on those bones. Experienced riders carry their weight on the balls of their feet, taking pressure
off the ischiums. (I owned horses for 18 years)
So, it was the hiking that got me...I even passed on climbing up to the last cave the morning we came back because my legs were losing strength....
that's when accidents happen.
I think 6 months regular duty on a stairmaster prior to the next trip would make it much more enjoyable...and probably lighten the mule's load, too!
We also donated a lot of excess equipment and food to the guides.
Mom always told me to be different - Now she says...Not THAT different
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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A trainig schedule!!!
What a good idea! I'm already doing some excercise every morning just in case I get to go on the trail again soon. Calesthenics for the muscles,
especially the quads. A little yoga for balance on those edgy trails up the canyon walls to the caves. And a bit of meditation, repeating my new
mantra "just trust your mule" over and over all day long. For lack of a stairmaster, I should just go to Tabor, south of Loreto, and climb the
boulders 3 times a week! Jeans, you are right-- preparation would make the trip even better!
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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Paula
How many day or nights your group expend in the sierra and how many paintings sites did you guys goy to see in those days for example in a weekend how
many sites can somebody see.
Ps.Paula can you throw afew cave names that you visit it.thanks
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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jeans
Super Nomad
Posts: 1059
Registered: 9-16-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Encantada
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BAJACAT
How many day or nights your group expend in the sierra and how many paintings sites did you guys goy to see in those days for example in a weekend how
many sites can somebody see.
Ps.Paula can you throw afew cave names that you visit it.thanks |
I believe that Paula & I covered the same ground. We also camped at Rancho Teresa the first night...the other two nights we stayed in the same
location further down.
Her first cave picture was from Cueva las Flechas...(arrows) notice the black lines...they are arrows. That cave is across the canyon from the large
Cueva Pintada.
Cueva Musica had a large, elaborately carved rock. I do not recall the other two cave names...one I did not hike to on the last day. Three nights in
the canyons, 5 caves.
We had only planned on two nights but we were "up-sold" after we left the rancho. On the edge of the canyon, there is a sign with a map of the
canyons & caves. They showed us how many caves we could see in two days...but if you want to stay an extra day........
......very clever!
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
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Thanks Mindy
| Quote: | Originally posted by jeans
| Quote: | Originally posted by BAJACAT
How many day or nights your group expend in the sierra and how many paintings sites did you guys goy to see in those days for example in a weekend how
many sites can somebody see.
Ps.Paula can you throw afew cave names that you visit it.thanks |
I believe that Paula & I covered the same ground. We also camped at Rancho Teresa the first night...the other two nights we stayed in the same
location further down.
Her first cave picture was from Cueva las Flechas...(arrows) notice the black lines...they are arrows. That cave is across the canyon from the large
Cueva Pintada.
Cueva Musica had a large, elaborately carved rock. I do not recall the other two cave names...one I did not hike to on the last day. Three nights in
the canyons, 5 caves.
We had only planned on two nights but we were "up-sold" after we left the rancho. On the edge of the canyon, there is a sign with a map of the
canyons & caves. They showed us how many caves we could see in two days...but if you want to stay an extra day........
......very clever! |
just wondering what I can see in a weekend
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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Bajacat, I'm sorry not to have answered your question sooner, we were out of town for a few days.
You could probably see several caves in a weekend. Three nights out would be better. Some of the best art is back in at Cacariso, which is about a
four hour ride. From there you can hike to Las Flechas and Pintada, which we did. They are spectacular. You could hike on to La Soledad, but we
didn't. It would have been a hard climb further. In the other direction from the campground you can go up Boca San Julio which is a beautiful hike.
There is a petroglyph (carved rock) there that is wonderful to see, and then you go on to cueva San Julio. If I remember correctly, la musica is
near Santa Teresa camp, which is half way in from San Francisco. There is another cave directly high above Santa Teresa that part of our group rode
up to. So it would depend on your stamina and your guide's willingness to do all of that in a weekend. I think you could get good advice on an
itinerary by talking with the office of INAH in San Ignacio at the museum by the mission.
I hope you get to do the trip, and let us know how it was-- I'm sure you'll enjoy the trip!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Some early photos of the caves plus the first map drawn of the locations (The government changed many of the names even though it was drawn by their
archeologist, Dr. Margain) can be seen at http://ChoralPepper.com Included is the cave discoverd by Choral... Pepper Cave, that could only be seen from helicopter.
[Edited on 2-22-2007 by David K]
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
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No worries Paula
| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
Bajacat, I'm sorry not to have answered your question sooner, we were out of town for a few days.
You could probably see several caves in a weekend. Three nights out would be better. Some of the best art is back in at Cacariso, which is about a
four hour ride. From there you can hike to Las Flechas and Pintada, which we did. They are spectacular. You could hike on to La Soledad, but we
didn't. It would have been a hard climb further. In the other direction from the campground you can go up Boca San Julio which is a beautiful hike.
There is a petroglyph (carved rock) there that is wonderful to see, and then you go on to cueva San Julio. If I remember correctly, la musica is
near Santa Teresa camp, which is half way in from San Francisco. There is another cave directly high above Santa Teresa that part of our group rode
up to. So it would depend on your stamina and your guide's willingness to do all of that in a weekend. I think you could get good advice on an
itinerary by talking with the office of INAH in San Ignacio at the museum by the mission.
I hope you get to do the trip, and let us know how it was-- I'm sure you'll enjoy the trip! |
Mindy told me
what to expect, in that amount of time. People new, like me to this (Bajalife) think that it required's a lot of time to go and explore,but people
like you David K and some others clearly shows that with little time but with a lot of Baja fever anything is possible thaks all you guys that share
your trips with the rest off us. Gracias Baja Amiga.
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Bajacat, If I remember correctly it was your report on San Borja that motivated us to go there. Turnabout's fair play!
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
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Sweeeeeeeeeeeet
| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
Bajacat, If I remember correctly it was your report on San Borja that motivated us to go there. Turnabout's fair play! |
Thats what this forum is all
about, sharing trips and getting people to see a little bit of what you have experince. now you are motivating me to do this trip...
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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Halboo
Nomad
Posts: 193
Registered: 2-19-2006
Location: 33°26\'00.15\"N 117°37\'09.84W
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bohemian
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Very cool trip! Thanks for sharing.
So many wonders in Baja 
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Photos are great! Carlos resembles a Villavicencio (tall)... The Arce's and Villavicencio's are the backbone of the Baja mountain clans!
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
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I BUMP, HAVE YOU BUMP LATELY???
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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This is Paula, not Don
[BAJACAT[/B], It is amazing that you bumped this up today, as I just got back to Loreto yesterday from bumping along on the back of a mule in the
sierra! Do you have psychic powers?? I was down in the canyon for a full week, and didn't even know who our next president would be until the 7th!!!
It was a great trip-- we went to rancho San Gregorio, 5 hours by mule from any road.
I haven't been able to log on for weeks now, and not having much to say I haven't taken the time to fix the problem, but in the next few days I'll
get it done and maybe put up a trip report.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Thanks for all your info everyone about this magical place....we are planning a trip this fall and I have a question...how cold will it be there in
say mid december??? muy frio??? We cant wait!
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Shari, it gets good and cold there by December and I think it sometimes gets down to the 30's F. at night, depending on where you are. Take lots of
layers, raingear, gloves, warm cap as well as a riding hat for the sun. I've slept out-- no tent-- on some cold nights and you'll need a ground cover
and something to keep your bag dry as the dew can be heavy.
Are you setting up your own trip through the INAH office in San Ignacio? If so you get the guides by rotation unless you make a specific request,
which they will honor if the guide you ask for is available. I have names of some really great people if you haven't already booked the trip...
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