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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
Note to Self
Do Not let this simplistic right wing drivel get to you... under no circumstances should you post on this thread.... this is an argument you cannot
win, no matter how right you are...people who buy into this stuff will never allow themselves to change their minds.... do NOT post on this thread,
no matter what.... |
  I try to not even read these threads and when I do, I make sure I am not
logged in---can't post that way.
I have only wandered into Off-Topic a couple of times---found my wayout real fast.
Love your comments---opps, now I have broken my own rule and have posted in one of these. But in the words of Monica Goodling, "I didn't mean to."
Diane
[Edited on 5-26-2007 by jdtrotter]
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Hook
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Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Agree completely.
There should be no amnesty to employers who hire illegals and no amnesty for politicians who stick the states with the costs of of their being here.
I think the current plan is a decent compromise. I dont care that it calls for building fewer miles of fencing; I think we can do a decent job with
electronic surveylance means in many of these areas.
I REALLY have a problem with the children of illegal aliens being automatically declared citizens.
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
Ya, I keep hearing that. But I haven't saved or made any money from them being here. If fact it's a big pain in the a$$.
So if gas was cheaper with them here or housing more affordable then maybe I wouldn't mind.
So what exactly is cheaper from them being here? It costs us more not saves us money. Sure some business owners might benefit but the average Joe
(like me) get stuck holding the bill. If those business owners who profit from illegal immigration/workers were passing along the savings maybe it
would be ok. But they don't. They still charge whatever the market will bear for their goods and services and keep their illegal profits to
themselves.
And all the Joe Q Publics that play by the rules end up paying higher taxes and higher insurance costs and higher everything costs.
It will be cheaper when they are gone! |
This reads like you aren't making ''money'' from undocumented Mexicans being in the US -- and that's a pain to you. If housing or gas was cheaper,
then it would be OK for these people to be here. Am I reading this right?
When the undocumented Mexican workers go back to Mexico, taxes and insurance in the US will drop. Is that what you mean?
What a pathetic point of view.
What bothers me is that you denigrate 12 million Mexicans (or other Latino races involved in this number) blaming them for your financial statement
and the US government's ineptitude at allowing this to happen.
Your reference to Mexican people as ''them'' says something about your attitude, generally. Us vs. them.
My impression is you don't like Mexicans, whether they are ''legal'' or not.
Blame your government -- Republicans and Democrats alikely -- for the years it took these millions to come across the border.
I don't promote anyone being here undocumented but I don't see Mexicans as terrorists and opportunists, though some might be here for opportunities.
Coming across the border illegally is a desparate act -- and I sense, these people have nothing to lose.
Blame the Mexican government while you're at it.
 |
Well, you are doing a good job of trying to make me out as the villian and "them" as some sort of victim.
My point was that people have said US citizens(us) benefit financially from illegal mexican(or other than mexican) immigrant labor(them).
I don't agree and neither does GrassFire. My belief is it costs me personally for them to be here . Financially and otherwise.
They(them) have entered the country illegally and are stealing from me(and you!). That is what I don't like. I don't care what there race or
nationality is.
Their very first act was to break to the law by entering the US illegally. That is what I don't like.
They continue to break US law and do so because they are "desparate". Last time I checked being desparate is not an acceptable reason to break the
law.
Please let me know when being "desparate" is an acceptable reason to break the law because I will rob the first bank I see.
I like mexicans just as well as I like members of any race or ethnic group.
If you obey the law and contribute to the betterment of society I like you. If your a liar or a cheater and steal from society I don't like you.
Blame? Who cares! I'm willing to take my share of responsibilty to straighten this mess out.
Here in Costa Mesa we voted to check immigration status on anyone arrested for any reason. We're getting rid of about 50 of these people per month.
It's a slow process but already things are improving.
So if your here illegally get the hell out! We're coming for you.
And if you're in Mexico illegally get legal. Follow the law of the land.
And if the cost of tomatos(or strawberries) goes up a penny to have someone in the country legally pick so be it. That's what being a responsible
American is all about. Doing the right (legal, ethical) thing no matter what the cost is.
Liars, cheaters, law breakers NOT welcome! I don't care how desparate they are.
[Edited on 5-26-2007 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Don Alley
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Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Send 'em all back to Mexico to eat roosterfish.
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
Send 'em all back to Mexico to eat roosterfish. |
Well, I guess that would prove how desparate they are.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Cypress
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Mood: undecided
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Roosterfish! Good fighters, but to eat? Yuck! A Jack Crevalle with frills!
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Don Alley
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Posts: 1997
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This Thread Has Been Hijacked!
Actually, I know local Mexicans who eat roosterfish and jack crevalle, and say it's good.
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MrBillM
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Blinded by the Light
It is becoming increasingly doubtful that the proposed legislation is going to survive the Congressional and Public Scrutiny.
The original hope for the GOP and Dem Rascals was that they could do a quick slide through before people started looking to hard. The reason they
wanted this bill is simple. The most important thing to ANY Politician is to get himself (herself) reelected and continue sucking on the public teat.
Because they are both afraid of how the immigration issue will shake out in individual races, they hoped to take it off the table as a partisan
issue. Thankfully, it didn't work out.
On the morning after the bill was announced, the San Diego Union-Tribune's lead editorial was a glowing endorsement of the agreement. However, in
Thursday's edition, they wrote something of a Mea Culpa saying that the bill was seriously flawed and would need much work. They still defended their
original editorial endorsement as a "Good First Step", but noted that many of the things Claimed by the backers have turned out to be
false, especially the so-called "Triggers" which turn out to be mostly illusionary in the actual wording.
The upcoming debate will be a lot more difficult than the Swim Champ thought.
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bajalou
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Posts: 4459
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Location: South of the broder
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If you don't believe that prices will rise if employers go from paying $10 per hour to $100 per hour you're in some dream world. To stay in business,
you have to make a profit. You can be greedy and make a big profit, or noble and make only a small profit, but a profit must be made or there will no
longer be a company to hire anyone or sell anything.
And you obviously don't want to comment on the employers who don't pay the SS and taxes to the government for their workers.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
If you don't believe that prices will rise if employers go from paying $10 per hour to $100 per hour you're in some dream world. To stay in business,
you have to make a profit. You can be greedy and make a big profit, or noble and make only a small profit, but a profit must be made or there will no
longer be a company to hire anyone or sell anything.
And you obviously don't want to comment on the employers who don't pay the SS and taxes to the government for their workers. |
Well, they can raise their prices all they want. The market will still only pay whatever it will bear. Prices are generally as high as the market will
bear already. I already pay about $.75 for an apple and I won't pay more. Didn't an illegal immigrant/worker pick that apple? Why is it so expensive?
A lot of the employer/employee relationships are contractor/subcontrctor type with the employee assuming responsibilty for all taxes etc.
It's a cash economy so good luck policing that.
You seem determined to place the blame on the employers. Well if these illegal immigrant/workers were not availible and willing to work for far less
than what it cost to be part of society then the employer would hire US citizens who would need to be paid the real cost of being part of society.
Sure prices might go up but people would only pay so much. If the price goes above that no one buys. It's the law of supply and demand. If prices go
up then they go up. That's how much it really costs. And it's a start at eliminating all the hidden costs of illegal immgration.
You seem to imply that since employers are willing to break the law that it's okay for these illegal immigrant/workers to break the law. No it isn't
Those employers should be prosecuted and many have been. There's been lots of raids and hopfully there will be more.
The employers will end up fined or in jail and the illegals will be put on a bus and shipped across the border. And if their dumb enough to come back
we'll put them in jail for a while before we ship them back.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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bajajudy
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Posts: 6886
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Just what we need...........more prisoners
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajajudy
Just what we need...........more prisoners |
Not to worry, Judy. The country club type prisions for business leaders have plenty of room since Bush took over. 
A hundred dollars an hour, Lou? Well, then there would be no problem finding AMERICANS to do that work. I'd quit my job and pick strawberries for
100/hour.
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajajudy
Just what we need...........more prisoners |
The cost of maintaining a society. The alternative is anarchy and lawlessness.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Packoderm
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It's not as if the U.S. really depends on illegal labor for life as we know it. If every single illegal immigrant were to return to their home country
tomorrow, we could round up a surplus of guest workers who will work for cheap from countries such as India in the snap of our fingers. Also, labor
represents only approx. 10% of the total cost of producing agricultural products, so if wages were to be increased tenfold, we would be paying $3.00
per pound of apples. Big woop.
But I have long contended that the U.S.'s effort at controlling our Southern border is token at best. If a new generation of Mexican immigrant were to
appear, a generation of workers that takes organization of labor very seriously and works successfully toward expanding union membership and ending
exploitation of all workers - immigrant and otherwise, the U.S. government would somehow miraculously formulate a method that effectively and
immediately halts the infiltration of undocumented immigrants into our country, and we would then get those guest workers from India. You know, it
gets really easy to forget that this is our country after all.
So, if we want cheap Mexican labor, that's fine, but let's keep it above the table with guest worker programs. Japan has an effective guest worker
program that brings in much needed, cheap blue collar labor from South Korea. If they can do it, why can't we?
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Packoderm
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And on top of all this, we are not doing Mexico any big favors by providing the pressure relief valve that prevents much needed change within Mexico.
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Paula
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
I believe in open borders...Is it time to start throwing those undocumented migrant picked tomatoes at me? |
I agree 100%, Elizabeth.
And in this heat, a tomato shower could be very refreshing
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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The blame game
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
But I have long contended that the U.S.'s effort at controlling our Southern border is token at best. If a new generation of Mexican immigrant were to
appear, a generation of workers that takes organization of labor very seriously and works successfully toward expanding union membership and ending
exploitation of all workers - immigrant and otherwise, the U.S. government would somehow miraculously formulate a method that effectively and
immediately halts the infiltration of undocumented immigrants into our country, and we would then get those guest workers from India. You know, it
gets really easy to forget that this is our country after all.
So, if we want cheap Mexican labor, that's fine, but let's keep it above the table with guest worker programs. Japan has an effective guest worker
program that brings in much needed, cheap blue collar labor from South Korea. If they can do it, why can't we? |
BINGO!
How long did it take 12 million Latinos to cross the border?
So, now immigration is getting serious?
Something fishy going on here. Could it be elections coming up?
Economics aside, I get a feeling that some people here REALLY don't like Mexicans. What are they doing on this forum anyway? Wait. Wait.
Don't tell me.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
But I have long contended that the U.S.'s effort at controlling our Southern border is token at best. If a new generation of Mexican immigrant were to
appear, a generation of workers that takes organization of labor very seriously and works successfully toward expanding union membership and ending
exploitation of all workers - immigrant and otherwise, the U.S. government would somehow miraculously formulate a method that effectively and
immediately halts the infiltration of undocumented immigrants into our country, and we would then get those guest workers from India. You know, it
gets really easy to forget that this is our country after all.
So, if we want cheap Mexican labor, that's fine, but let's keep it above the table with guest worker programs. Japan has an effective guest worker
program that brings in much needed, cheap blue collar labor from South Korea. If they can do it, why can't we? |
BINGO!
How long did it take 12 million Latinos to cross the border?
So, now immigration is getting serious?
Something fishy going on here. Could it be elections coming up?
Economics aside, I get a feeling that some people here REALLY don't like Mexicans. What are they doing on this forum anyway? Wait. Wait.
Don't tell me.
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Again with the race card? Is that all you've got.
I didn't know illegal immigrant was a race. Apparently in your mind it is. So since we don't approve of illegal immigration that automatically means
we "Really don't like mexicans"
by your logic.
So by that same logic if you support illegal immigration you don't like Americans.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Lee
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Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Looks like a duck. Quacks like a duck. Must be a...
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
Again with the race card? Is that all you've got.
I didn't know illegal immigrant was a race. Apparently in your mind it is. So since we don't approve of illegal immigration that automatically means
we "Really don't like mexicans"
by your logic.
So by that same logic if you support illegal immigration you don't like Americans. |
I'd break the law if I was desperate. If I was starving and homeless, I might rob a bank too. Guess you've never been desperate.
A little charity goes a long way. Talk to a legal Mexican if you know one.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Packoderm
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Illegal immigration became an especially important issue to me at just about the time I had to abandon my construction trade because I cannot compete
with workers who can work more cheaply because their families are partially supported by our public support system. I cannot claim 7 or more
dependents and then forget about it come tax time. I am not truly bilingual. I feel that I was squeezed out of my livelihood, but nobody is waving any
flags for me in any march or protest. It would be wrong (racist) to do so.
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