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Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bajatastic
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
I'm hoping when the time comes, that St. Peter is on a break and a Mexican is taking his place. |
Don't
forget your wallet. |
''mordita is an inherent cultural problem....
continuing to pay mordita only perpetuates the something for nothing mentality.....
Morditda negatively effects YOU....
people who pay mordita are SELFISH!!...
They only think & care about their own interests...
"Money talks" alright!...
But have you ever stopped to LISTEN to what it's saying about you & how you chose to use it??''
Thought there was two sides to the mordida issues the Gringoes have created.
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I think you give the gringos too much credit. We didn't create the Mordida system in Mexico. If it were created by gringos and for gringos as you
imply, you would not see any Mordida in non-toursty parts of Mexico. The fact is, bribes are paid by Mexicans all over the country. While I will
admit, some gringos are "targeted" in certain areas. I know many Mexicans who had to pay extra to get there phone service installed within the
decade, etc..
My guess is that "Mordida" started sometime between when Cortez demanded gold from the Aztecs before he killed Montezuma II and the Spanish American
War. Between those two events they had several bloody and long revolutions where the rich controlled all the land and power, while 90% or the people
had little or no rights, future, or power.
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To say that circumventing the law is immorral is to assume that the law itself is moral and right. -Carl Franz (Peoples Guide to Mexico)
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The locals that had be subjugated to immoral and illegal theft and destruction of their lands, culture, and religion by the French, Spanish,
Americans, Mestizos, etc.. might not have respected "law and order" the same way as you see it. Mexico has been though a lot, and is a very diverse
country that will take some time to settle out enough to heal the negative wounds and customs of the past.
Where do we stand now? Not in a perfect world. So don't expect Mexico to be perfect. Deal with the current customs and laws in Mexico if you know
what is best. You can always make up a fantasy Mexican world of your own if you don't like the way things are. People just might think you are crazy
though.
Very often reality is not so nice or fair. However you find reality in Mexico, it's Mexican reality. Gringos are way outnumbered in Mexico, so they
will have to change it, not you.
Maybe you will find the attitude of the past more suitable as far as bribes are concerned.
During Aztec times this is how bribery was looked at:
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Aztec judges drew their salary from the proceeds of lands set aside for them by the state, which was supposed to make the judge less susceptible to
bribery and corruption. Judges were bound to render impartial verdicts and sentences without regard to the parties social status based solely on
their wisdom. A judge was not allowed to accept gifts in any form and was bound by strong rules of ethics. A violation of these ethics could result in
a number of penalties. - "The Aztec Legal System " - by Professor David D Friedman
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I hear there was absolutely no way of bribing your way out of getting your heart removed with an obsidian blade! So be careful what you wish for.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
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Jeeze, for a silly traffic stop just pay the man and be on your way. But at least try to haggle the fine. He'll probably have to split it 3 ways at
the end of the day. Of course any thing over $50 I'd have to think about how my actions are negatively effecting the moral fabric of this society.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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Pay the Piper
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
I think you give the gringos too much credit. We didn't create the Mordida system in Mexico.... I hear there was absolutely no way of bribing your
way out of getting your heart removed with an obsidian blade! So be careful what you wish for. |
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
We didn't create the Mordida system in Mexico. If it were created by gringos and for I hear there was absolutely no way of bribing your way out of
getting your heart removed with an obsidian blade! So be careful what you wish for. |
My comments were meant as tongue-in-cheek. There has been heated and emotional posts about this subject and the ''moral minority'' are adamen about
the sinfulness of giving money to anyone especially if it involves extortion.
Personally, I'm with Bill. He nails this issue!
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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wiltonh
Nomad
Posts: 302
Registered: 2-2-2007
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Two years ago I was pulled over in TJ on the hill going out of town towards the toll road. It was early in the morning and there was very little
traffic. I was going over the speed limit by probably 10 miles per hour. I speak very little Spanish but my wife is fluent. The cop would not let
her be with in hearing distance. He told me to come to the back of the van and made my wife stay in the passenger seat.
The guy told me the fine would be some very large amount and I told him I did not think this fair. After a long discussion, I told him that I had
read about his operation on the internet. He was shaken by that and probably would have just walked off. I then offered him a much lower amount,
because I had been speeding, and he took it.
I learned two things from this situation.
1. Let them know you have read about them on the internet.
2. Let them know that you plan to post the outcome.
They do not want others to find out about what they are doing.
Now on to a previous ticket which was many years ago in Ensenada. We had been riding motorcycles up near Mike's Sky Ranch and my wife had crashed and
broken her collar bone. I had picked her up with my van and she was complaining about the bumps. I got out a large white nylon rope and roped her to
the captains chair. This kept her arm from moving and made it easier to ride.
When we got down to Ensenada, I made an illegal turn at a traffic circle. It had a sign that said you could go around during certain hours and not
others. We were in the illegal time and the cop stopped us. He came to the drivers side window and looked in and saw my wife tied to the chair. He
almost came unglued. This was one time that I was very glad she spoke Spanish. Once she had explained what was going on, I paid the cop $20 and he
showed us a way out of town where we did not have to go over any speed bumps.
Once we got to the line the American border guard was also very interested in why she was tied up. This time I could explain what was going on and he
just sent us right on through.
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joel
Nomad
Posts: 361
Registered: 2-2-2007
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wiltonh
Now on to a previous ticket which was many years ago in Ensenada. We had been riding motorcycles up near Mike's Sky Ranch and my wife had crashed and
broken her collar bone. I had picked her up with my van and she was complaining about the bumps. I got out a large white nylon rope and roped her to
the captains chair. This kept her arm from moving and made it easier to ride.
When we got down to Ensenada, I made an illegal turn at a traffic circle. It had a sign that said you could go around during certain hours and not
others. We were in the illegal time and the cop stopped us. He came to the drivers side window and looked in and saw my wife tied to the chair. He
almost came unglued. This was one time that I was very glad she spoke Spanish. Once she had explained what was going on, I paid the cop $20 and he
showed us a way out of town where we did not have to go over any speed bumps.
Once we got to the line the American border guard was also very interested in why she was tied up. This time I could explain what was going on and he
just sent us right on through. |
That is hilarious! I'm almost amazed that they believed you and her and didn't think she was being coerced into saying all was okay. I'll have to ask
my wife if she'd be willing to try it out next time we cross the border.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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Yeah, that should work
| Quote: | Originally posted by wiltonh
I learned two things from this situation.
1. Let them know you have read about them on the internet.
2. Let them know that you plan to post the outcome.
They do not want others to find out about what they are doing.
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Corrupt TJ cops...outed on the internet... Brilliant. 
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by wiltonh
I learned two things from this situation.
1. Let them know you have read about them on the internet.
2. Let them know that you plan to post the outcome.
They do not want others to find out about what they are doing.
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Corrupt TJ cops...outed on the internet... Brilliant.
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Has anyone taken a photo of the officer, or in his view written down his badge number ?
Or would this lead to even greater trouble ?
-CaboRon
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
Has anyone taken a photo of the officer, or in his view written down his badge number ?
Or would this lead to even greater trouble ?
-CaboRon |
Be very careful about that CaboRon, specialy with the heavy armament ones 
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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docsmom
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 6-21-2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Member Is Offline
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fdt,
Did you get my U2U? And was it all the information you needed?
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docsmom
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 6-21-2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Member Is Offline
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Heavy armament. Two of them with slingshots, one with boogers. Hate to say it but I think boogerman scares me more! Don't want to be shot with one
of those babies!
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by docsmom
fdt,
Did you get my U2U? And was it all the information you needed? |
Got it, I'll let you know
saludos
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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Ok Docsmom got the info, $486.70 pesos, check your U2U
saludos
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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