| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5 |
Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
Roberto, although he can be abrasive at times, simply asked you a valid question.
|
Who, me? 
NOW you're getting personal Diver. I think I'm going to post three pages explaining what you said, what I said, why you're picking on me with that
comment, asking what you are contributing, and including a couple of dozen pictures of my truck in Baja. So there!
|
|
|
Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
It is rare that I pick on anyone on this board but you have a way of ******* people off. Did you ever think that since it happens to you more than
ANYONE else, it might be something YOU do ? Oh nevermind....
. |
Classic.
|
|
|
Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by RichnLinda
Thanks Dennis, was just trying to establish a ball park figure, but........... |
It's going to be just about impossible to establish a ball park figure by asking questions on this board. The best you will be able to do is get a
feeling for the approach to getting that figure for the place YOU need the work done. These things vary widely depending on the location and the work.
For example the cost of a mason in San Felipe will be very different that in Bahia de Los Angeles or La Paz or La Purisima. Your best bet is to
establish relationships with the folks who are local to your area, and inquire about the cost. Find out who specializes in what, make that fit into
your goals. The first rule is that there are no hard and fast rules, except perhaps:
NEVER pay for the work ahead of time, unless you have a relationship (and I mean a real relationship) with the person who is going to perform the
work. Long discussion here, but trust me on this one.
Good luck.
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
Wouldn't it be so much easier if there was a dedicated "Crap on DK" forum? No particular topic would be required or any reason at all for that
matter. When the urge hits, just turn on the computer, go to that "Crap on DK" place and unload to your hearts content, wipe...wash and jump to
another forum and tell everybody all you know about burritos in Baja.
|
|
|
rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Wouldn't it be so much easier if there was a dedicated "Crap on DK" forum? No particular topic would be required or any reason at all for that
matter. When the urge hits, just turn on the computer, go to that "Crap on DK" place and unload to your hearts content, wipe...wash and jump to
another forum and tell everybody all you know about burritos in Baja. |
Yes Dennis I think you have a great idea, Except he (DK) would probably dominate the forum leaving the rest of us where we are today. He is of
course an expert in all areas of Baja including "crap"
|
|
|
Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1626
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
Member Is Offline
|
|
I am very sorry to see this thread deteriorate to the point it has. I think that for those of us that love Baja this topic is a very frequent and
continual concern. I have no concerns about overpaying and being considered an ignorant gringo as a result. Why should I? If I am ever taken
advantage of I am confident that in time I will become aware of it and just chaulk it up to being trusting. I don't consider that to be the end of
the world. There are a lot of worse things I can be accused of than trusting.
Of greater concern to me is the impact I may have on the local area. As I watch all of the dollars, francs, duetchmarks, whatever, pouring into Baja
I am concerned over the inflation it creates in the local economy. Not everyone in Baja works in the service or construction industry as a result the
revenue that keeps pouring in is not distributed equally. As I do my own shopping for whatever, I am simply overwhelmed by the costs of things when I
compare the price of any given item to the typical income of a local family. I for one don't know how they manage.
In Memory of E-57
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
the typical income of a local family. I for one don't know how they manage. |
For one thing, they don't have mortgages and car payments to run their lives. When they buy a house, they buy a house. Also, they arn't rabid
consumers like we are.
By the way, I wonder what that typical income is here in Ensenada for instance. I know it will differ according to location.
|
|
|
Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
For one thing, they don't have mortgages and car payments to run their lives. When they buy a house, they buy a house. |
That's true, but part of that is because consumer credit basically doesn't exist in Mexico.
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
That's true, but part of that is because consumer credit basically doesn't exist in Mexico. |
It's difficult to generalize about the economic layers in Mexican society as I have done above. There is such disparity, they don't overlap. I see
consumers in the larger stores using credit cards regularly and I could, and sometimes do, assume that most Mexicans have credit cards, which they
don't. In those stores, I'm only seeing the privileged.
That said, credit institutions in Mexico are coming alive. Car financeing is available for new cars and houses can be bought on time. I won't even
begin to talk about interest rates. I only know they're high.
|
|
|
Bronco
Nomad
Posts: 168
Registered: 12-1-2007
Member Is Offline
|
|
It's not the tough
Part of my Baja experience is working with the people I hire. I learn the language enjoy the exercise and in most cases have a good time. I also set
the pace and quality expected of most work, excluding excavating-ditch digging-for a wall etc. Years ago I spent the day learning the word
“herramienta”. I just could not get it, trilling the r, anyway I finally just wrote it in the palm of my hand. My worker really got a laugh every time
I needed a tool I had to look at my hand. My general rule is maestro pay is currently $25+ depending on the type of work, block, rock and general
construction. Prepping for a slab, painting and gardening would be less. If it’s a major project the options is a bid and use someone with a
recommendation. Before moving to Baja I never touched a hammer or would dream of doing electrical work, and my favorite roofing? Entonces, enjoy the
experience.
|
|
|
BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by RichnLinda
I've been reading the board, and seen a couple of references to Mexican wages here. One person said $10 a day and another said maybe $20 for just work
in general, not skilled labor. What do you pay$? This is not meant to start a flaming party about taking advantage of the Mexicans, it's just a
question. Thank you  |
Rich & Linda,
We were also wondering about this when we bought our place in La Paz. We didn't want to underpay or overpay anyone. (Of course, when I was working
there was never such a thing as being overpaid.) I think we ended up paying too much on some jobs and about right on others.
An example was some cement work for our laundry room. It was bare block with dirt floors. We needed it stuccoed and painted and a slab poured. We
hired a local worker from the neighborhood based on the recommendation from a long time local resident of the area. Juan was very anxious to work for
us and we had some reservations but asked him to bid the job. He came by the next day and asked when he could start working. We again asked for a bid.
Then we watched him try to measure and figure out the area. Turned out he couldn't do the calculations. This raised our concerns regarding Juan even
more.
Finally he said that he would charge M$50 per sq meter for the cement work. We agreed to hire him on a day-by-day basis since we were thinking it was
very possible we would need to hire someone else to complete his work. I did all the measuring. Turns out he did a very good job. Was there early and
worked late. It was hard work for what he charged us but he was eager to do more work after completing the laundry room.
Since we felt confident in Juan now, we decided to hire him to do the exterior painting. Here again, I did all the measuring and he said he wanted
M$20 per sq meter. This was for 2 coats of paint. Juan again did a good job. We told him that we didn't want paint splashed all over the concrete
around the house and the walls and he was very good about keeping it covered.
All the work was done in November and December. We paid Juan after work was completed all through the jobs, sometimes a small amount daily but most of
the time at the end of the week. Christmas was a good time to give him a bonus for all the good work.
We supplied all cement, sand, rock, paint, brushes, rollers, a ladder and a few other items. Juan brought some tools, wheelbarrow, large water barrel,
and even made his own scaffolding.
We would hire him again for a few small jobs if he was still around but he's moved to the mainland to dig clams.
Okay, waiting for the flames now.
Steve
I think the world is run by C- students.
|
|
|
Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
|
|
Well, I'm sorry I couldn't post a succinct reply like "Pay him $XX pesos a day/hour" but I don't think there is any standard or norm. There are
differences from area to area. Also, like the presence of an observer skewing the observation, the growing mix of differing economies caused by our
economic interaction has destabilized prices and wages to the point that I don't have a clue. Everyone has to wing it from job to
job. Yes, I believe there are official government figures but I doubt they are up to date or adjusted to location.
A couple of days ago we drove from Loreto to Constitucion for a shopping trip. At the Ley Supermarket, I almost, almost bought a flat or two of Coca
Cola (I'm an addict). I'd save some money. Then I thought, no, I'll continue to buy Coke at the local corner tienda; I often depend on it for a quick
item or two and want it to stay in business.
Later, after returning to Loreto, I went to the tienda, bought a couple of Cokes, and the price was a peso higher than the day before. Oops, no good
deed goes unpunished!
And time to raise pay to keep up with inflation!
|
|
|
Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
|
|
Steve, Diane said it best -- she used the word Situational. Wish I would have thought of that! Every workman is different, every job is unique, each
town and village is a different commecial culture. You did all the right things and things worked out for both you and the workman. I have seen
gringos here who will not hire anyone unless they give a written estimate, have their own tools, come with references. Often those "do what you would
do in the states" guys are left sitting on the patio with not a chance in hell of getting the work done in that little village. In our little town the
gringos have to wait til one roofer/tile man/cementero finishes his current job before they even get a chance to talk to him about work on their homes
- the good ones are well known, in demand, worth every cent and run for the hills when confronted by such arrogant newcomers who want it all done,
now, their way, good, cheap and with a smile on the workman's face. There ain't no yellow pages for that kind of work down here.
While I'm at it I will venture a guess that nobody on this board will ever make a centavo of difference in the local economy no matter how much he
overpays or underpays anyone for anything.
|
|
|
Bronco
Nomad
Posts: 168
Registered: 12-1-2007
Member Is Offline
|
|
It's not that tough
Part of my Baja experience is working with the people I hire. I learn the language enjoy the exercise and in most cases have a good time. I also set
the pace and quality expected of most work, excluding excavating-ditch digging-for a wall etc. Years ago I spent the day learning the word
“herramienta”. I just could not get it, trilling the r, anyway I finally just wrote it in the palm of my hand. My worker really got a laugh every time
I needed a tool I had to look at my hand. My general rule is maestro pay is currently $25+ depending on the type of work, block, rock and general
construction. Prepping for a slab, painting and gardening would be less. If it’s a major project the options is a bid and use someone with a
recommendation. Before moving to Baja I never touched a hammer or would dream of doing electrical work, and my favorite roofing? Entonces, enjoy the
experience.
|
|
|
mulegemichael
Super Nomad
Posts: 2310
Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: up on step
|
|
Just a short couple of years ago, the going rate for service folks down south, (la ribera), was $70 pesos a day...hard to believe..I'm sure it's more
now. Just about everywhere that I've lived down there recently,(mulege), the hourly rate varies between $40-$50 pesos an hour for general
laborers,gardeners,housecleaners,etc..more for skilled laborers. I think that pretty much addresses the original question.
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
|
|
|
durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Establishing a price after the work is done brings the negotiation into that gray zone of gratuities for service and we've already spent too much time
with that topic. |
But when price is established in advance and the job is not done correctly you have a real challenging negotiation after the fact.
Bob Durrell
|
|
|
Lindalou
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 1-12-2004
Location: Punta Banda Baja
Member Is Offline
|
|
Thank you or at least some of you for your ans. I don't know any more now then I did before I asked and got some rudeness that I think was uncalled
for, for a simple question that has no answer.
I meant no disrespect towards any Mexicans, we have had good vibes with all we have met and/or worked with........Linda
|
|
|
oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
|
|
I hired a Mexican contractor in the Los Cabos area to do some major work for me last year. He told me that he paid a common laborer 100 pesos per
day. He said that in his line of work, there is no such thing as an hourly wage. Everyone is paid by the day, whether it is 4 hours of work or 10.
In my case, his laborers were on the job about 6 hours per day. But, their day started when they left their casa. Their workday included travel on
the local bus to and from the job site (my contractor also paid their bus fare and a stipend for lunch). He advised me that if I was not on site to
unlock the premises that day and his workmen showed up and couldn't work, he still had to pay them a days wages.
He said he paid skilled laborers - electricians, plumbers, master masons - about twice the rate of day laborers. He said it just depended on how good
they were, how long they had been with him, and how much he liked them.
If I hire someone to do a small job for me in the Los Cabos area, I pay about double what my contractor would pay for similar work. I do this on the
basis that it is short term work and I may or may not have more work for him in the future.
Then again, I paid one guy US$15 for about one hour of work to haul some heavy furniture up three flight of stairs by himself during the heat and
humidity of August so I wouldn't have to do it. It was the best $15 I ever spent!!!!!!! This same guy is always asking me if I need any help. I
guess I overpaid him.
I know one Mexican guy who works as a concierge at a local hotel. He tells me that he expects and usually gets US$1 to US$2 per bag for
transportation to a room. However, sometimes he gets nothing and he spreads the word around about that guest. So that guest can never find a staff
person when he wants something. What does this have to do with hiring day labor? Nothing, other than if you don't pay enough, the word gets around
and everyone is suddenly too busy to work for you.
Whether someone is on SS or not, has nothing to do with paying a fair wage to a Mexican laborer who certainly has a lower standard of living than
probably anyone on this Forum. My philosophy is that I incur many benefits by living in Baja. Therefore, I have no problem with paying more than the
going local rate for labor and increasing the standard of living as one way to pay for all those benefits I receive here. But that's just me, others
should do what makes them feel most comfortable.
|
|
|
Lindalou
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 1-12-2004
Location: Punta Banda Baja
Member Is Offline
|
|
oxxo, thank you for this information.
|
|
|
Lindalou
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 1-12-2004
Location: Punta Banda Baja
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by mulegemichael
Just a short couple of years ago, the going rate for service folks down south, (la ribera), was $70 pesos a day...hard to believe..I'm sure it's more
now. Just about everywhere that I've lived down there recently,(mulege), the hourly rate varies between $40-$50 pesos an hour for general
laborers,gardeners,housecleaners,etc..more for skilled laborers. I think that pretty much addresses the original question. |
Thank you
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
