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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
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It is different in Baja!, Just talked to my Friend Alvaro{The Best Pangero Fishermand in Loreto}In my Opinion]. He and the other Pangeroas are having
trouble with very few Customers.
I think that maybe some of the other Fishin Companies are having trouble also, just have not posted it.
I will let the Board know my Opinions after my trip down next week.
I understand from others that the "Time Share Scamers are geting real "Pushy on the streets of Loreto""
Is that True Pam???
If I was of the mind to make a Couple of Million in the next 5 to 10 years I still say go into the Lower Income Residential Rental Business.
Save your Cash.
Skeet |
Hi there,
yes it is true there has been a slowdown in tourism here and also a cutting of flights. However with that said I am pleased that our business is up
because of the fabulous fishing and I would also like to think due to our many years of excellent service. Normally September through mid March is
our down season due to weather, fishing and timing. Fall is quite slow as are the weeks before the christmas holidays so we always have to prepare
for the slow season because it happens every year.
there was a newspaper article in sudcaliforniano about how slow the fishing tourism season in Loreto has been. In late may and june we were the only
ones working and it was strange and there was some animosity felt. The guys at the marina say "if Cuervo isn't going out there's no tourism" Cuervo
is my husband and he fishes many days per year.
a long time ago when I first started the business and our finances were all based in USA i was discouraged by the fact that my bank wouldn't allow us
to process credit cards for peoples trips because we are based in Mexico. I thought that would slow our growth and competitive abilities, but a good
friend Lani Waller, of flyfishing fame told me that it is best not to tap into the "credit card crowd". Those that can pay for their trips up front
are the ones to tap into so that's what we did and we've so far weathered a couple of recessions and 9-11 and hopefully well pull through this one
too. fortunately our overhead is low and can be cut further easily if need be, also we have no debt and that helps with the stress level. our 2009
reservations look healthy as ever and we have more Europeans and Canadian clients than ever before now as well. another thing is that a tournament
was recently filmed here that will be broadcast on fox sports west (Ronnie Kovach's Fishing Ventures Television) in about three weeks so that kind of
promotion ought to help out. the fishing was incredible so the footage ought to be supreme.
I hesitate to hire Alvaro because of his age. In the high season my captains will often fish every single day and do afternoon or night shifts too.
this is a VERY physical job and its demanding too even at my end. Because we are seasonal we gotta "make hay while the sun shines" and we do. If
Alvaro can train a mid-20something guy (a mold-able age) how to run his boat, take good care of him like paying on time and a fair amount, then I will
be happy to give his boat work. I'll train the new captain how to handle fly anglers, I love doing that and it would help him to get more work, also
English will be a huge plus.
so in this economy like in all times my advice to Loretanos is this:
take very good care of your clients always so that they will return, they will tell their friends and the client pool will grow steadily.
understand who your clients are and offer a fair price for a product that is of good value.
always promise only what you can deliver. in this way clients will come and keep coming and then the airlines will come back too because of demand.
I have always hated the fonatur/hotel association manner of always pushing subsidized flights, it gives everyone in the industry here an incorrect
sense of the real picture of tourism to Loreto and their part in servicing the clients properly.
on the cutting back in airline service, my takes are:
there are very few hotels that offer travel agents commission so the incentive to sell the Loreto destination is just not there.
the economy will restrict consumers ability to travel so even if we had planes flying in every day they wouldn´t have been full anyway.
We'll survive, Loretanos always do and if things get really bad we can always catch a fish to eat!
timeshare people? yes and they are pushy, from the Villas Palmar project, the Villas Group the ensenada blanca deal. $50K timeshares. They wear
yellow polo shirts and now have an office across the street from cafe ole. they WILL accost you guaranteed especially when using the ATM or bank.
also I have heard some things about their being at the airport practically kidnapping arrivals by offering them free ground transport and other stuff
in exchange for going to a presentation. the first one was at the governor's cup sign ups in April. I photographed one of them and we had some
conversation, the following monday that same guy chased me all the way to my sons kindergarten trying to sell. I told him "get a good look at me,
don't waste my time and I won't waste yours, leave me alone I am not interested" i also told him that I will post his picture on the internet and
warn others and he asked me not to do that.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skip_Mac
That is, Can you give me a reasonable estimate of day to day living costs in your location. |
We live for about 10% to 15% less in Los Cabos (a relatively expensive part of Mexico) than a comparable lifestyle in SoCal. And I think our quality
of life is much better here than in SoCal.
I think if you are looking for the lowest possible cost of living in Mexico, you need to look at the mainland.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dao45
David K next time you come through jerome I would love to buy you a drink
AKA Rodorado |
Thanks! We heard about Jerome while in Williams... it sounded interesting so we drove through there on our way home from the Grand Canyon last
November... Had a burger and beer at the Haunted Hamburger after touring the mine building...
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Shark18
Banned
Posts: 79
Registered: 5-4-2007
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
We live for about 10% to 15% less in Los Cabos (a relatively expensive part of Mexico) than a comparable lifestyle in SoCal. And I think our quality
of life is much better here than in SoCal. |
I might agree with you that the cost of living is cheaper, but by no stretch of the imagination is the quality of life in Los Cabos better than in
SoCal, even if you wanted to compare Los Cabos to a ghetto like South Central LA.
Even in South Central the water and power are always on, the mail is still delivered every day and the markets are stocked with fresh vegetables and
meats. The garbage is collected once per week, all the streets are paved, the cops don't take mordida and actually investigate crimes. I'm comparing
what you think is the best of Baja to the worst of SoCal. Most of SoCal is even better...and no humidity or bugs.
I'm not so sure Los Cabos is even cheaper, in the long run. If you are retired you have to forego cheap or free Medicare or VA care, because it is not
available in Mexico, or travel 1,000 miles each way to see a US doctor and pay for the travel.
You are just rationalizing your own decisions by convincing yourself your life is better.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Shark18
I might agree with you that the cost of living is cheaper, but by no stretch of the imagination is the quality of life in Los Cabos better than in
SoCal, even if you wanted to compare Los Cabos to a ghetto like South Central LA.
Even in South Central the water and power are always on, the mail is still delivered every day and the markets are stocked with fresh vegetables and
meats. The garbage is collected once per week, all the streets are paved, the cops don't take mordida and actually investigate crimes. I'm comparing
what you think is the best of Baja to the worst of SoCal. Most of SoCal is even better...and no humidity or bugs.
I'm not so sure Los Cabos is even cheaper, in the long run. If you are retired you have to forego cheap or free Medicare or VA care, because it is not
available in Mexico, or travel 1,000 miles each way to see a US doctor and pay for the travel.
You are just rationalizing your own decisions by convincing yourself your life is better. |
At least this way of reasoning keeps you, and many others, on the other side of the line.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Shark18You are just rationalizing your own decisions by convincing yourself your life is better.
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I stand by everything I wrote in my post. It's a bit presumptuous for YOU to decide whether my quality of life is better or not.
So Shark18, where do you live full time in Baja? If life sucks in Baja, tell us how you came to that conclusion in your full time residence here.
You are a full time resident here aren't you? You talk as though you know better than I what it is like to live here full time. Tell us about your
experience. Or are you just a troll who wants to bash Baja? Is that your goal in life, to just go around and being a "ball buster?" Contribute
something positive cabron.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Shark18
I was busting Oxxo's balls for being inappropriate. so he can rationalize why he is in love with Baja? |
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Hi!
Go to Bajainsider.com. In the Sept. 30 update there are two articles related to the cost of living in Baja. One of the articles gives a grocery list
and compares it with identical lists from four major U.S. Cities. The premise is that living Baja is not much of a bargain anymore.
The Baja Insider tends to look like a Chamber of Commerce website in that its objective is to draw tourism and boost the local economy. Most
everything is positive. (That may be a welcome attitude, but is probably delusional). I can't attest to the level of journalistic integrity but these
two articles seem to attempt objectivity. So, take from it what you wish, or not.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | I might agree with you that the cost of living is cheaper, but by no stretch of the imagination is the quality of life in Los Cabos better than in
SoCal, even if you wanted to compare Los Cabos to a ghetto like South Central LA.
Even in South Central the water and power are always on, the mail is still delivered every day and the markets are stocked with fresh vegetables and
meats. The garbage is collected once per week, all the streets are paved, the cops don't take mordida and actually investigate crimes. I'm comparing
what you think is the best of Baja to the worst of SoCal. Most of SoCal is even better...and no humidity or bugs.
I'm not so sure Los Cabos is even cheaper, in the long run. If you are retired you have to forego cheap or free Medicare or VA care, because it is not
available in Mexico, or travel 1,000 miles each way to see a US doctor and pay for the travel.
You are just rationalizing your own decisions by convincing yourself your life is better. |
Hmmmmmmm....In
YOUR OPINION oxxo's rationalizing, but it's his life to make his own decisions for his own reasons. Quality of life is pretty subjective on an
individual basis! I can't put a percentage to it, but I couldn't live in the states for what I can here. I love it here & wouldn't want to go
back to the states for love nor money. This is my home!
Not sure why it it seems that CA or Southern CA frequently appears to be the common comparison factor to Baja. I'm not from CA, never lived there,
from what I've seen & experienced driving through, I'll take Baja over CA any day!
I'm not a vet & too young for Medicare. Why so many seem to feel the necessity to travel to the US for medical is beyond me! There is very
good medical here. You may have to search around a little to find a doctor you like, but the medical care here is better than in the US in many ways
because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest tools know to man....their
BRAIN. Here, doctors actually spend time with you & talk with you to get information & symptoms to actually diagnose, rather than run you
through on a conveyor belt, handing out slips to go here for this test & then go there for that test.
So rather than assume sub-standard medical....have you TRIED it? I HAVE seen a couple doctors here I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy, but I
shopped around until I found 2-3 MD's & a few specialists that I like & feel sincerely care about my health & I've stuck with them, as
well as recommend them.
For me, my annual medical costs have been lower than the cost of an annual insurance policy...all but 1 out of the 9 years I've lived here.
I can't break the cost of living here down to a daily basis, but I can say that I get by fine on my $,1000 month retirement benefit. That's having
tighter months than others when I pay annual premiums for house & car insurance. So it actually works out to a little under $1K per month when
you take into account a couple months of the year are more than my monthly income.
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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Economy still perking along in Fort Worth, TX--we've got lots of oil drillers, military, and agriculture as a base...houses still selling in our
neighborhood at reasonable prices (perhaps that's why I've been seeing more and more California license plates--they're moving here for the cheaper
housing!). But one never knows how phase shifts in the U.S. economy will affect things--and this seems to be a rather large phase shift.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Influenced by the US economic downturn? Immediate impact? No problems. Looking foreward to catching speckle trout, red fish and flounder down in the
marsh country of the northern Gulf of Mexico this winter. Last winter in Baja was great, but the inshore fishing was sad. The rental property etc.
will cost more, but it will be warm and the fish are there to be caught.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Shark18
But then you went on to say that the quality of life is better. Do you really want to compare the quality of life in a seaside town like Los Cabos to
a seaside town in SoCal, like Santa Barbara, Laguna Beach or La Jolla and say Los Cabos is better with a straight face? |
I lived in Avila Beach for 33 years. Yes, I am saying with a straight face that my quality of life is better in Los Cabos.
| Quote: | | When there was a thread about Sam Botner being beat to death by Los Cabos police and dying on the jailhouse floor, drowning in his own blood, you
suggested it was OK because he had traces of marijuana in his blood. |
No I didn't say it was okay. You said I said it was okay. I said there was more to the story. You decided to spin that statement.
Now, I am asking you again, where do you live full time in Baja that makes you an expert on Baja? What is it you don't like about my "precious" Baja.
Put up or shut up cabron.
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Shark18
Banned
Posts: 79
Registered: 5-4-2007
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
There is very good medical here. You may have to search around a little to find a doctor you like, but the medical care here is better than in the US
in many ways because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest tools know to
man....their BRAIN. |
Hey that's great to hear. Perhaps you would now like to explain why the cancer mortality rate in the US drops every year and in Mexico it increases
every year? You have long legs, let's see you dance your way out if this.
I always enjoy it when people who post apochrypal information have to deal with published facts.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Go to Bajainsider.com. In the Sept. 30 update there are two articles related to the cost of living in Baja. One of the articles gives a grocery list
and compares it with identical lists from four major U.S. Cities. The premise is that living Baja is not much of a bargain anymore.
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Interesting article, Tony. I compared the cost of the things that she is purchasing in La Paz at Sorianas, to what we pay in Los Cabos. We shop
primarily at Costco, MEGA, CCC, and WalMart. We don't shop at Soriana because it tends to be more expensive on most things that we purchase. Our
cost of groceries is 10% to 15% less than what she paid (not including McD's, yuck).
So I think her prices are probably accurate, but she is paying more than we do in Los Cabos because we have more competition and more selection. We
live for about 10% to 15% less on day to day expenses (groceries, gasoline, restaurants, etc.) than our previous residence in California. If you
figure in property taxes and home insurance and utilities, we live for probably 30% less.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Shark18
Perhaps you would now like to explain why the cancer mortality rate in the US drops every year and in Mexico it increases every year?
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Okay, you have made the statement, now post a link to verify your "information."
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Shark18
Banned
Posts: 79
Registered: 5-4-2007
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
No I didn't say it was okay. You said I said it was okay. I said there was more to the story. You decided to spin that statement.
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This is exactly what you said:
| Quote: | I think you are going to find, when all is said and done, that everyone is at fault, from perps to victim.
I think the message is very clear, don't screw with the police in Mexico. If you can't abide by that, then you probably shouldn't come here.
oxxo posted on 9-8-2008 at 04:54 PM |
I did not spin anything. You clearly stated that you believed that the victim contributed to his own death.
How's that trolling business, oxxo? It's a little hard to lie when your previous posts are still floating around here.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Shark18
| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
There is very good medical here. You may have to search around a little to find a doctor you like, but the medical care here is better than in the US
in many ways because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest
tools know to man....their BRAIN. |
Hey that's great to hear. Perhaps you would now like to explain why the cancer mortality rate in the US drops every year and in Mexico it increases
every year? You have long legs, let's see you dance your way out if this.
I always enjoy it when people who post apochrypal information have to deal with published facts. |
I said many ways not all. Why would I want to explain cancer mortality rates USA vs Mexico? You obviously already have the data at
your fingertips. Obviously cancer has not been one of my medical issues, so I won't be dancing on your command.
Can I assume you meant apocryphal? Since I was relating my own personal experience, I don't consider my comments/experiences to be unauthenticated.
Diagnostic equipment is a valuable tool in many instances; I personally have yet to have a problem here where verbal diagnosis, and on occasion
equipment on hand wasn't sufficient. That's not to say it couldn't conceivably be possible in the future; if so, I'll cross that bridge when I come
to it.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Shark
You lump Medicare and VA together that doesn't compare, Medicare your paying premiums and I don't think its worth the trip, the Va I've had some
Major,Major work done there and have to make the run twice a year for us its like a vacation and a time to do extra shopping. As far as quality of
living it doesn't compare to anywhere I've lived in the states CALIF. I'm sure your problem with bugs is because you where beach camping that can be a
problem but living away from the beach its no more of a problem that I have experienced living all over calif. I do live in PARADISE and sir; you
cannot dispute that because you are not me.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Oxxo,
I think your first hand experience is the kind of information people are asking for. Thank you.
| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Go to Bajainsider.com. In the Sept. 30 update there are two articles related to the cost of living in Baja. One of the articles gives a grocery list
and compares it with identical lists from four major U.S. Cities. The premise is that living Baja is not much of a bargain anymore.
|
Interesting article, Tony. I compared the cost of the things that she is purchasing in La Paz at Sorianas, to what we pay in Los Cabos. We shop
primarily at Costco, MEGA, CCC, and WalMart. We don't shop at Soriana because it tends to be more expensive on most things that we purchase. Our
cost of groceries is 10% to 15% less than what she paid (not including McD's, yuck).
So I think her prices are probably accurate, but she is paying more than we do in Los Cabos because we have more competition and more selection. We
live for about 10% to 15% less on day to day expenses (groceries, gasoline, restaurants, etc.) than our previous residence in California. If you
figure in property taxes and home insurance and utilities, we live for probably 30% less. |
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
I think your first hand experience is the kind of information people are asking for. |
Okay, rather than guesswork, here are the facts.
We went to Costco at lunch today for our weekly hotdog (man cannot live by tacos alone, but it wouldn't be bad to try). I didn't have the grocery
list that was published on Baja Insider so I did it from memory. I remembered 6 out of the 11 grocery items, so not too bad.
Here are the prices today 10/01/08 at Costco for the following items (with prices in La Paz in parenthesis):
eggs - 1.63/doz. (2.20)
hamburger - 2.83/lb (3.89)
milk - 3.68/gal (4.60)
bread - 1.64/loaf (2.50)
bacon - 2.65/lb (6.89)
lettuce - .92/head (1.29)
If you total these 6 items up, I would pay 13.35 at Costco in San Lucas and 21.37 at Soriana in La Paz. That equals 38% less than La Paz. I was
being too conservative in my previous estimates about how much we save.
Now if I take those 6 items and compare them to the US locations in the article, Cabo is approximately equal to the lowest priced city in the US,
Boston. So I get Boston's low prices without having to put up with a Boston winter (yes I did spend part of a winter there).
I my opinion, La Paz is a much more expensive city for daily expenses than Los Cabos. However, that could change soon because there is a WalMart
under construction and I hear rumors about a Costco location in La Paz.
Actually, I think we live for much less than 15% compared to SoCal, but I would really to have to spend some time to prove it. I'm just happy here
with a better quality of life to boot!
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