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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JaraHurd
I am starting to beleive more and more that this is all part of God's great plan. |
Yup, that's it.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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It is not the Supply Line of Drugs from Mexico that is the Majopr Problem in my Opinion, it is the rapid use even among Children.
O.K> Why? and I will approach this from my Life Experience:
As a young Lad I smoked Cedar Bark wrapped in a brown Paper Sack, later I had a couple of Beers in Korea{5 cents a Can}, then off to Baja and into
some good Tequilla.
During this time as my memory serves me including a stent in South Central LA I did not observe a Grand use of Drugs! An I was a Police Official!
This all occurring prior to the Mid 60's. At about that time I became aware of the rapid use of Drugs as well as very little use in the small town of
Loreto and the larger City of La Paz.
Why in such a Short Time did Drugs start into Rapid Use???. Communication, Technology, Computers?
Is the use of Drugs actually "A weakness in the Mind and Body of any given Individual" ??
If so "What can be done to Correct that Weakness before Drugs take over?? How could it be observed? of Can it be?
We can go to the Moon but are unable to test and Indiviual to determine if they may be at Risk.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
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Location: Playas de Tijuana
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Perhaps instead of lumping chemical substances that are illegal and are used to "get high" into one group "drugs", it woud be useful to consider the
particular ones that are causing the problems. Methamphetamine, cocaine, heroin, and marijuana all have their own histories. Opiates and cannabis have
been around forever. Amphetamines for around 100 years. Coco leaves processed into cocaine, what 100 years or so?
Which came first, the users or the drugs? The drugs, obviously. Why are their so many users? Because there is so much profit in providing the drugs.
The pushers make sure there is ample supply.
Meth can be eliminated by tighter controls on the worldwide chemical companies that make ephedra and tight controls on the worldwide sale of over the
counter decongestants, which are made from ephedra and can be reversed chemical engineered back to ephedra or its analogs.
Divide the war into separate battles on each drug, each with its own tactics, and some headway may be made. Meth seems to be the easiest to eliminate
because of the need for the chemical, ephedra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
Of course strategic methods include education, law enforcement, and rehab.
Skeet, pick your drug, go to Google, and start reading about its history and manufacture. Then you'll better understand the problem.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Cigarettes kill more people than illegal drugs. I think they should be outlawed too along with alcohol and guns.
In fact I think that any activity that in any way increases the likelihood of any early death or serious harm be outlawed as well. I want us all to
have nice, safe padded boxes to live in without any electrical outlets where toddlers could get electrocuted, swimming pools of course will be banned
because we know so many drown in those each year. Cars have no place in this "safe" society as we all know how many die in those dangerous things too
each and every day. Planes can kill lots of folks in one crash so they are big no-no's. Ships can sink so we better figure out a way to make bridges
across all the oceans. No motorcycles either. Transportation will be by horse, bicycle or just walking. Maybe horses and bikes are too dangerous so
maybe just walking. I am sure that I am missing many more things that should be outlawed for the greater, common good and I know that all you here can
help me with some of your own ideas.
Or we could just live in a society where each person is responsible for them self, parents responsible for their kids and let people live their lives
as truly free people to make their own choices in life (good or bad) and deal with the consequences where they err. The alternative is to create a
police state - something the US seems to resemble more and more each and every day.
But what do I know...
[Edited on 10-19-2008 by BajaGringo]
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JaraHurd
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Location: Los Angeles County
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Mood: probably annoyed
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Police State?
Yeah I agree BajaGringo. Let's just let people do what they want to do. Wouldn't that be awesome? Like I have said before, most of us have no problem
obeying the law. Do you? If you do, then I am glad you live south of the border. I don't have all the answers..but I know there have to be some rules.
By the way, if you live in Baja how do you know what is going on stateside on a daily basis?
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
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I have family in law enforcement in the USA and see what is going on in the streets and courts of the USA. If you look at the real growth in police -
local and federal, laws, regulations as well the tactics used - yes, it is slowly looking more and more like a police state. I have lived in a police
state before, have you? I know what they look like. I personally have no incline to use any substance "currently" on the US government list of
"outlawed" substances but I have observed in my 50+ years how the US government has taken an ever increasing role in the daily lives of its citizens,
creating more and more laws and a system through which to "process" all these "law breakers". A system which has in turn created a huge revenue source
for said government. If I could see some small, positive benefit out of this same system I might be able to find the "greater good" in an ever greater
government presence in the daily life of its citizens. Instead all I have seen is the loss of personal freedoms, out of control government spending
and ever increasing taxes to pay for all this government that now takes over 50% of the gross income on average from its citizens to pay for all this
government. During the same time drug use has increased, not decreased. Obviously the current system is not working. But why let that small fact get
in the way of throwing some more money at it...
The only way to completely control the behavior of people is via a police state. Somehow the USA survived in decades past with just basic laws to
protect the general public that existed when the USA was founded. "Drugs" like opium, alcohol and others were used legally. If someone infringed upon
the rights of others while using those "drugs", they were punished for those "crimes", not the fact that they chose to use alcohol or some other drug
while committing that crime. It's just personal responsibility or we end up handing that over to the government with all of our money to to pay for
that task.
All I am saying is that people are going to use it if they really want it, illegal or not. Don't believe me? Outlaw cigarettes and see how many
criminals we will create overnight...
[Edited on 10-19-2008 by BajaGringo]
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Skeet your write
"......I will approach this from my Life Experience: As a young Lad I smoked Cedar Bark wrapped in a brown Paper Sack, later I had a couple of Beers
in Korea{5 cents a Can}, then off to Baja and into some good Tequilla."
It is good that you do have experiences of your own to inform you as to why people use substances. Not all use is abuse and not all use is addiction.
It sounds like you used but did not become addicted to neither Cedar Bark nor Alcohol and for that you can be grateful. I mention this because it is
important to understand why people use drugs. This helps us all not demonize other people who are behaving in very human and predictable ways. I don’t
think less of you for smoking Cedar Bark nor drinking 5 cent beer. There is however no accounting for taste I must admit. It is clear that you, like
most young people need to have their own experiences to decide what place Cedar Bark and other substances will play in their lives.
You ask a legitimate question as to why drug use has increased after WWII and particularly in the 1960's. I have both personal experience and have
read extensively on the subject. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area and had friends who rented houses on the Panhandle when rents were cheap and
the living was good. I attended the Electric Cool Aide Acid Test, many "Human Be Ins" and other events of this nature. I witnessed the decline that
drug abuse created and know people who died from abuse. I worked in Psychiatric Hospitals in the Bay Area at the time talked down many on bad Acid
trips.
I think that it is important to understand that after WWII there was a major shift of population from rural areas and farms to the city. "How do you
keep 'em on the farm once they've seen Pari?" remember that old song? Urbanization broke down many of the kinship bonds that held rural communities
together and children of those who moved to the city needed to develop new identities that did not relate to their parents rural roots. The "Hippie"
movement in part provided an appealing alternative to the "buttoned down" lifestyle of "Father Knows Best" and "Leave it to Beaver". Drugs, Sex and
Rock and Roll are very appealing and particularly so to young people who are about the business of forming an identity and whose hormones are raging.
These young people were failed by a government policy of demonizing marijuana and its users. The government developed a propaganda campaign to address
the growing use of this substance; one used by both Native people and our Founding Fathers, and did so by lying about its effect. See the film Reefer
Madness as an example. This approach seemed like a very bad joke when young people found that its use did not drive them any more crazy than did hair
grow on their palms for engaging in other socially frowned upon behavior. The younger generation learned not to trust their elders and Nixon/Agnew
reinforced these feelings as did the Viet Nam War. Students at the time had both leisure time, education and a sense of the limitless bounds of
things. In this context a “Great Society” and a “Journey to the Moon” were all possible; if we could dream it we could make it, that generation grew
up in a time of relative stability and tremendous growth. They sky was the limit and for good and ill that generation knew few bounds. http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj005.htm
Drug use appears to wax and wane during our history, each generation it seems needs to learn its lessons i.e. the latest generation is appalled by
tobacco use and uses little of it compared to your generation where it was widely uses including in movies and even hospitals. Prohibition was never
used with Tobacco and yet a major decrease of its use has occurred. When I first trained in hospitals I smoked a pipe, unimaginable in these days.
However in China it is common to see a Physician who is smoking a cigarette. After the Civil War there was a crisis in this country over the use of
morphine. Later a crisis emerged over the use of Cocaine, recall the blues song of the ’40 that goes “Cocaine is for horses, it’s not for men, they
say it will kill you, but they don’t say when, cocaine…running through my brain.” Cocaine was found in common products like Coca Cola and eventually
became regulated. Others have suggested that you and others interested in this subject do some research on your own on the history of each of these
drugs and I think that is a very good idea. These drugs and their effects are not all the same, nor is how we need to address them the same.
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 10-17-2006
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BajaGringo
Well said. You can boil a frog by putting it in cool water and then slowly raising the temperature, throw it into boiling water and it will jump out.
We are in many ways less and less free in the USofA, but it is hard to see as these changes are often small and incremental. Every day I seem to read
of the latest infringement on our Constitutional Rights in the USofA in the name of "Homeland Security" and "War on Terrorism" is it a war on
terrorism to listen to the bedtime conversations of the military and their spouses? When did it become ok with you for the telephone company to set up
warrantless wire taps on the phones of people without FISA Court agreement? Did that happen....you bet your booty...and did Congress react to protect
your rights....you bet....absolved the Telephone Companies from prosecution for this violation of the Constitution. Our frog is well cooked by this
point. Mexicans in many ways have more freedom than we do in the USofA and I hope that as they address this most serious issue in such a way that they
will not become the sort of police state that their cousins up north, between Mexico and Canada that is, have become.
Iflyfish
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JaraHurd
Nomad
Posts: 203
Registered: 3-21-2007
Location: Los Angeles County
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Mood: probably annoyed
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Baja Gringo.
I don't know why you live south of the border. I don't care either. If I am lucky I will too. Based on past threads your credibility is questionable
so, unlike others, I don't pay you much attention. This whole thread is one that keeps coming up over and over again in society. I don't have all the
answers, I just know how I live my life. The thought of legalziing illicit street drugs does not appeal to me. The liberals seem to want this done. I
like the quote by Winston Churchills regarding people who are not conservatives by age 40. But he was only one man and maybe he was wrong too. Maybe
some day in the future the situation will improve, who knows.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Post deleted in the spirit of playing nice...
[Edited on 10-19-2008 by BajaGringo]
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JaraHurd
Nomad
Posts: 203
Registered: 3-21-2007
Location: Los Angeles County
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Mood: probably annoyed
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Sorry about you being picked on. I don't mean to be a troll. I don't like bullies and it sounds like your little feelings have been hurt. I am sorry.
I will stop.
I am not big on rehashing the same old drivel. And you don't really want an opposing view point, you just want to make a few contacts and show
everyone how passionate you are about the issue. I don't have to justify who I am or what I believe to you or anyone else. I know I have made my
contribution to society. And I intend to keep on doing so. I suspect that none of us will find out who was right until we are long gone anyway. In the
meantiime, it is potato chips, Dr Pepper and tuna sandwiches and an NFL game before I go to work tonight.
Have a good day and remember..it is always best to tell the truth. I would like to buy a house in Baja someday and would like to do so from an honest
soul...they can be hard to find.....Jon
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Post deleted in the spirit of playing nice...
[Edited on 10-19-2008 by BajaGringo]
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Eugenio
Nomad
Posts: 206
Registered: 4-23-2008
Location: Navojoa, Son.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Eugenio, this is BS. CIA/Banks/Drugs is a profitable game. Mexico is a pawn. |
Nice sound argument gnukid - you win - Mexico's a pawn.
Next topic?
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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"The Arellano Felix brothers – Benjamin, Ramon, Javier – moved in from Sinaloa and provided the perfect springboard. From their Tijuana stronghold,
they controlled trafficking routes into California, the biggest drug market in a country that is the biggest consumer of cocaine in the world."
Interesting short history about the TJ cartel.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/06/world/fg-arellano6
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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K-rico
Thanks for this informative post. Remember Joe Kennedy, father of JFK, Robert Kennedy, Edward Kennedy...he was a US Ambassador and made the family
fortune during Prohibition running booze. After Prohibition he was well placed to go legit.....another model of what is possible with legalization.
Where will the Cartels go? Many will become legitimate businessmen.
Iflyfish
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dao45
Junior Nomad
Posts: 93
Registered: 5-21-2007
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here we go again
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Hay no Problema
What's the big deal ? NONE of those being whacked are future Physicians, Scientists, Engineers or CEOs.
There are a lot of extra people on the continent.
It will all sort itself out.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I once saw a deer take just one bite of an amanita (sp?) mushroom....what impressed me was she took just one nibble and moved on...and seemed to know
where to bite. I subsequently noticed that several of these highly hallucinagenic mushrooms has deer bites out of them.....but just one. Nature of the
beast?
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Shari,
This could account for the spots on the fawns! They also seem to be very considerate and see well at night.
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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MrBill,
Tell that to the parents of the two twelve year old girls killed recently in drug shoot outs. The terror from these incidents affects all who are
exposed. These are crimes against humanity that create terror and have long term psychological ramifications for those exposed. Ever heard of PTSD?
Iflyfish
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