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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
You know, the road wasn't made for wide campers or RVs but I don't hear anyone talking about how they could endanger others. As an avid cyclist
myself, I understand the dangers and would not attempt that ride but hearing everyone talk about how a cyclist is endangering others is getting old.
Slow down and be aware that a rock, RV, cow, or cyclist could be just around the corner.
just my thoughts...
Zac |
You are just not being realistic---yes there are lots of dangers. But traveling that road as often as we do, we put the bike riders at the top of
the list of endangering others. Cows, wide RVS, trucks in the wrong lane, yes, we have experienced them all, but the bike riders are the worst---have
met them far too many times. They are often in the middle of the lanes.
So, you come down a curve, not too fast, but not at a speed that allows for an instant stop---so, does one drive off the cliff, drive head-on into the
opposing vehicle, or wipe out the bike riders. ??
So maybe think about it this way---those who really dislike the bike riders on that highway, perhaps, just perhaps, are people who do not want to kill
people in order to save themselves and or innocent people.
Please think about that when you say that
| Quote: |
hearing everyone talk about how a cyclist is endangering others is getting old.
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Diane
[Edited on 11-29-2008 by jdtrotter]
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Bajaboy
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Diane-
Let me say this again, as an avid cyclist I am getting tired of everyone saying a cyclist is endangering everyone. Why does an oversized RV have more
right to the road than a cyclist? I have ridden thousands of miles and know the dangers to the cyclist. I've also driven thousands of miles in Baja
and now the inherent dangers of doing so. I think I am being realistic as I have been on both sides of the saddle.
So what are your thoughts about the beater car with one headlight that can only muster 30 mph....I've come around my share of curves to find one in
front of me....
I still say..slow down and be prepared for whatever may lie in front of you....whether it be an RV, cow, slow car...or cyclist.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Diane-
So what are your thoughts about the beater car with one headlight that can only muster 30 mph....I've come around my share of curves to find one in
front of me....
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Bicycles are more dangerous to everyone on that highway.
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Mango
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
You are just not being realistic--- |
Reality? There are bike riders on that road.
There are also people with RV's, motorcycles, buses, trucks, and on foot. Lets not forget, cows, potholes, coyotes, and snakes.
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
So, you come down a curve, not too fast, but not at a speed that allows for an instant stop---so, does one drive off the cliff, drive head-on into the
opposing vehicle, or wipe out the |
insert schoolchildren, grandmother, giant rock in the road,
broken down truck, etc.. etc.. etc..
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
So maybe think about it this way---those who really dislike the bike riders on that highway, perhaps, just perhaps, are people who do not want to kill
people in order to save themselves and or innocent people.
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Nobody is forcing you to drive faster than is safe for the road conditions. Think about it this way. You want the bike rider to be
"responsible" for your safety; yet, you refuse to hold yourself responsible to operate your vehicle safely or accept the consequences if you do not.
Seriously.. this thread has been done before.
Blaming a bike rider for your mythical crash is like blaming the sun for a sunburn. Take responsibility for yourself; put on some sunscreen
and slow down.
The leading cause of death, is life. How people choose to live and die is largely up to them.
Unfortunately; some people are bike riders and some other people never learned to share in kindergarten.
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norte
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Some equate cows on the road with Bicyclists on the road as it if it was OK. I guess they have counted the road kill lately.
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Lindalou
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If the RV anyone is referring to is mine pulling a boat you are wrong. We pulled a Tracker and lived in the RV for months in Mulege. It was our only
home for 3 years so we did have a tendency to have to take it where we went. We have not taken it that far South since and probably will not again. My
husband also had a CDL and is a very careful and good driver and still the most dangerous thing to us is the bike rider on highway 1 Baja Mx.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
Unfortunately; some people are bike riders and some other people never learned to share in kindergarten. |
There are some other things that some people obviously did not learn in kidergarten.
I will say that perhaps I was wrong to put bike riders toward the top of the list of those who endanger the lives of others on that highway on that
narrow highway.----they are just part of the list.
Partial list of people who make the choice to endanger themselves and others while driving Highway one
Drunk Drivers--booze or drugs
Drivers taking a needed nap while driving
Overloaded trucks
Drivers who think Highway 1 is a speedway--gringo and Mexican
Bicyle riders
They all exist, but it is difficult for me to imagine anyone offering encouragemet to any of these individuals.
Now cows and horses don't listen either, but I think humans have perhaps a little more reasoning power---or at least some do.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
Seriously.. this thread has been done before.
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Moderator? Enjoyed seeing HoseA recently and he is not coming back---too bad.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
Nobody is forcing you to drive faster than is safe for the road conditions. Think about it this way. You want the bike rider to be
"responsible" for your safety; yet, you refuse to hold yourself responsible to operate your vehicle safely or accept the consequences if you do not.
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And a moderator who, once again, seems to magically knows things about others----
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The leading cause of death, is life. How people choose to live and die is largely up to them.
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Yes, I agree and I also believe that if someone wants to make the choice to die, that is a their right. I just don't believe that they should be
encouraged to do it in a manner that endangers others.
So, yes, the reality is that all of those things exist on that highway, and it is not the idea of some lack of personal responsibilty for some
mythical accident, it is a simply a matter of should they be encouraged.
In areas where the road is very narrow some Mexicans use bicycles for transportation, but they are along side or down the side of the road-----not on
the road. That is the choice they make.
Diane
Sorry the quote lines are messed up---won't go back and fix them----could be seen as a pedantic move-- I guess some things are discussions and others
are pedantic lecturing 
[Edited on 11-29-2008 by jdtrotter]
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BajaGringo
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While I tend to be a risk taker and have admittedly used up most of my nine lives, I would have to agree that riding a bike on the highway down can be
a very dangerous thing.
A couple of weeks ago I was heading north out of Colonet a few miles and almost lost control of my SUV on a blind curve when a bike veered over into
our lane to avoid a bus that came up fast behind him. The bus never saw the slow moving rider and I never saw the bus to be able to prepare for what
was about to happen. I turned down an embankment at 50 mph and did some minor damage to the front of my vehicle, barely avoided rolling over into an
arroyo below. The rider stopped and apologized but I was left feeling like this was a disaster waiting to happen.
I suggested to the young man that maybe he should walk his bike around the tight blind curves and hilltops, off to the side of the road. He just
shrugged his shoulders and rode on.
I understand the passion these riders feel but it definitely left me feeling paranoid now since I drive back and forth each week...
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BajaGringo
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It has made me approach blind corners now with a degree of trepidation...
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
Not to sound pedantic like a few of the lecturers here |
Sounds pedantic to me
----but I guess that it is only the opinions and discussion of others that seem pedantic, especially if they disagree with one. Been guilty of seeing
things that way before, and probably will again.
It is such a nice word---one of those that really slams people, not their opinions, but people with whom you disagree.
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Paula
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arbee
I've been driving in baja for years, and am always amazed at the stupidity of bicycling down the highway. When 2 semis are approaching each other on
one of the many narrow dangerous sections of road and there is a bicycle in their path, what do you think will happen? Given the choice of a head on
or taking out the bike is a no brainer. I discourage anyone from riding on the highway. |
I think the gut reaction of most people in this situation would be to spare the bicyclist at all costs, because they are out there, unprotected by a
vehicle, and the first thing you see with your minds eye is that person's head, bones and blood al over the pavement. There is no time to make a
value judgement, the reaction has to be instinctual, and the sight of that person so badly injured is unthinkable-- you do anything to avoid being the
cause of that.
And this is why I think riding a bicycle on this road is a very thoughtless and selfish thing to do. I see the appeal of doing it, but there are
other things you can do for a thrill that won't involve endanger the lives of others.
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BajaGringo
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Maybe we can turn all this energy on both sides of the issue into a campaign for signs to be posted around such dangerous parts of the road to
warn/remind drivers to look out for bike riders?
Just a thought...
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fernando
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
I wonder what Mexicans think about this...... I will ask on the forum fernando presented to us..... it is their road after all and all the pedantic
lecturing in the world won't change that. |
Exactly!!
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
Yes, in that it is a slam. No, about the difference in opinions, which I value.
It is more in the endless and repeated "lecture" style of the stated opinion. Repetition tends to numb the intended recipient to whatever message is
being reiterated and possibly(?)comes across as arrogant. Again. And again. And again.........sabe?
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
Not to sound pedantic like a few of the lecturers here |
Sounds pedantic to me
----but I guess that it is only the opinions and discussion of others that seem pedantic, especially if they disagree with one. Been guilty of seeing
things that way before, and probably will again.
It is such a nice word---one of those that really slams people, not their opinions, but people with whom you disagree. |
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Absolutely, and and I am also very guilty of also seeing others as arrogant when they continue to disagree, and or slam others for their opinions and
or style. I just usually ignore those threads----I try not to make personal insults against those who are involved.
When I decide to become involved, I see it as discussion---a back and forth. If I am not involved, I often see it as useless, boring lecturing, and
yes, I have been guilty of getting personal at times. Not a good thing.
The personal slams, IMHO, are always arrogant no matter from whom they come.
There, I have done it again---I repeated myself, but your ARROGANT slam ---well, it really isn't worth the time of day. Hows that for arrogant???
Off to other areas now.
Diane
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David K
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Pompano, All those trucks (and cars) over the side of the cliffs... how do you know a bike rider didn't cause them? 
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Mango
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Pompano, All those trucks (and cars) over the side of the cliffs... how do you know a bike rider didn't cause them? |
If people have such a hard time slowing, avoiding, or safely negotiating around a 2.5 foot wide hazard maybe its a good thing they fly off the road.
I'd hate to see how they panic when they see my broken down 6 foot wide car or a slow truck. 
Maybe big government can step in and save everyone from the bike riders since nobody wants to take responsibility for themselves.
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Paula
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Mango, the problem is not meeting just the bicycle. The problem is when 2 vehicles and the bicycle all are in the same place at the same time,
especially when it is on a blind curve. Happened to us recently, a few seconds difference and it could have really been ugly.
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Mango
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
Mango, the problem is not meeting just the bicycle. The problem is when 2 vehicles and the bicycle all are in the same place at the same time,
especially when it is on a blind curve. Happened to us recently, a few seconds difference and it could have really been ugly.
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Understood.. I'm glad you were driving safely and avoided the accident. You experienced a Mexican "smerge"
Look.. its not always the cars fault or the bikers fault. Each situation is unique and I know that. Both drivers and riders should just be aware the
other is there and do your best to remain safe and courteous of others and other peoples needs.
Bike riders don't expect cars to stay off the road, any more than drivers should expect bikes to stay home.
Sure, there are exceptions. Freeways allow no bikes, and bike trails allow no cars. Sure they can ride off road.. but try riding a bike a mile in
sand and you will quickly see that Hwy 1 is the only viable route though Baja for most riders.
This whole argument would be best served in the Mexican legislature. Since most foreigners can't do anything about the laws in Mexico.. I just
suggest being ready to deal with it until they make Hwy 1 into a four lane freeway.
I don't recommend doing the ride myslef. I don't recommend anyone ride a road bike anymore. It's not just Hwy 1 in Baja, it is roads everywhere.
I've been run off the road here in the states, even with a bike lane. There are so many bad drivers and bikers without proper skills that mixing the
two is going to be dangerous.
Just the other day a bike rider was killed near my town in northern California. The bike rider was riding at night without a light, no reflective
gear, and on a narrow mountain road. Can anyone say "Darwinism"?
Hit and run.. he was killed. I feel sad for everyone involved; however, I believe the rider was 100% at fault. How are you supposed to see someone
at night in the dark with no reflectors or lights?
It's sad really. The safest thing to do is lock your door, sit in front of the TV, and eat donuts and get fat. Great world we made.
To me.. this thread is not about bikes vs. cars.. but learning to accept other peoples realities and dreams. Learning to share the road and share
this wonderful thing we all love called Baja.
Part of sharing is giving something up so others can enjoy it too.. I don't want Hwy 1 to be reserved for any one group to to exclude any one group.
Ultimately, its not really about what I want or what you want - but what is. What is can change;but, right now there are bikes on
that road.
All I am asking is that people please try to be courteous and understanding of other users of the road if you wish them to be courteous and
understanding of you. We are all here.. nobody is going away.. just north or south.. so lets do what we can to get along.
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Don Alley
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
Mango, the problem is not meeting just the bicycle. The problem is when 2 vehicles and the bicycle all are in the same place at the same time,
especially when it is on a blind curve. Happened to us recently, a few seconds difference and it could have really been ugly.
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All I am asking is that people please try to be courteous and understanding of other users of the road if you wish them to be courteous and
understanding of you. We are all here.. nobody is going away.. just north or south.. so lets do what we can to get along. |
I ran over one on a recent trip while Paula was napping. Oops. Sorry Mr. Bicycle Dude.
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Pompano
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Nadine? Hellooooooo...??
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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