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fishbuck
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Society has worked very hard to cut down on cigarette useage. And I believe there has been a measure of success to it.
Society has worked very hard to cut down on drunk driving and I think there has been a measure of success there also.
So there may be realistic ways to have an impact on these issues or at least to civilize them and try to make them fit into society.
But acknowledging that they aren't going away is a good first step.
I mean the cigarette and alcohol producers don't go around shooting each other with military grade weapons anymore.
That would be a big improvement in Mexico!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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BajaGringo
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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My point exactly
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fishbuck
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I was thinking that if there were no violence associated with the drug shipping would we care as much about this?
It would still be a very bad problem.
But what if it was peaceful? The drugs just move through. No shootings etc.
It's the violence that we are scared of! Not the drugs.
The drugs aren't going away. And that is a problem. But it is the violence that we must deal with.
The weapon of choice for the drug army is the AK-47, semi-auto. Bought legally here and smuggled into Mexico. That is scary.
I haven't fired one for a while but I am a small arms expert with an M-16 too. And the idea of "the enemy" armed with that weapon is very sobering.
And I don't want to be that sober! 
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
I was thinking that if there were no violence associated with the drug shipping would we care as much about this?
It would still be a very bad problem.
But what if it was peaceful? The drugs just move through. No shootings etc.
It's the violence that we are scared of! Not the drugs.
The drugs aren't going away. And that is a problem. But it is the violence that we must deal with.
The weapon of choice for the drug army is the AK-47, semi-auto. Bought legally here and smuggled into Mexico. That is scary.
I haven't fired one for a while but I am a small arms expert with an M-16 too. And the idea of "the enemy" armed with that weapon is very sobering.
And I don't want to be that sober! |
I agree, it is the recent violence that is the problem, not the drug business per se. Remember baja before the violence? I do, Tijuana and Rosarito
were full of tourists, Americans were buying beach homes, and there were very few news items about the thriving drug business.
TJ has calmed down recently (knock on wood). I wonder why. Maybe the drug trade has stopped in the area, or maybe the competition between cartels to
take over the Arellano-Felix turf is over and there is a new "crime outfit" in charge. I suspect it's the latter if anything.
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ckiefer
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K-rico: That sounds like a reasonable analysis. But if the U.S. legalizes, pot for example, do these guys then infiltrate the U.S. and take their
violence there in an effort to control the distribution and keep all the cash for themselves? Horrifying thought, all those decapitations on U.S.
soil, and all for the few hours of smoking, doping pleasure it delivers. It's surely a sad situation. Either way you look at it, we need to tighten
up our borders.
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k-rico
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The border is being tightened up and stopping smuggling is a reasonable and non-violent course of action.
The smuggling (both drugs and people) has recently moved to the ocean along the TJ / San Diego coastline. A sign that land based smuggling has become
much more difficult.
Legalization is a can of worms. I question the basic premise that it would stop the black market. Just sell it cheaper than the legal stuff, bingo,
you're in business.
Afterall, what's the cost of goods for producing a pound of skunk? Not much.
[Edited on 3-4-2009 by k-rico]
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ckiefer
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k-rico: and even less if it were legalized. Then those who wish to partake in the U.S. buy locally (I can see those "made in usa stickers now),
making it less appealing to purchase the import. That makes the cost to smuggle higher, no? Smuggling moved to ocean, well so much for having
beach-front property there.
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Yes, the world would be a better place without drugs.....or booze, cigarettes, porn, poverty, racism...etc etc. I concur that way more people die from
booze and nicotine than pot.
I too have heard MANY cases in our village where men were looking for some marijuana but when they can't find it, they buy chuki or crystal meth which
is always around. This really stinks. Pot is hard to find because it is bulky, smelly thus risky to carry but crystal is cheap, easy to transport,
hide and cant be detected when you take it like pot and thus readily available to poor mexicanos which is a shame as it is such a horrific drug.
If pot were legal, many kids and adults would not be hooked on meth which can destroy them for life. Legalization has been in the mexican media alot
lately and I hope for the sake of all the teens and their uncles that soon meth will be no longer the drug of choice.
I just cannot believe the number of self righteous alcoholics that truly believe that their "drug" of choice should be the only legal one....junkies
are always gonna find their fix whether it be beer, cigarettes, coffee, videogames, nomad forum.....legalize it, control it, tax it...educate the
public with the revenues and hope for the best.
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ckiefer
Smuggling moved to ocean, well so much for having beach-front property there. |
I believe it was the USCG that stopped a panga with 20 or so people in it last week just inside the Coronado Islands. I know that would put the US in
Mex waters, maybe that's OK now, maybe it was just north of the border as it extends into the ocean. I wonder where they planned on coming ashore?
Hotel del Coronado? La Jolla? San Diego Yacht Club?
The pot smugglers are dumping the packages overboard when they get chased. TJ beachcombing is becoming popular. I just got back from a beach walk with
the dogs. Didn't see any tightly wrapped, duct taped packages though. Beautiful morning in TJ.
Submarines are next but that's tricky around here. Lots of underwater traffic given the nuclear attack sub base in San Diego bay.
[Edited on 3-4-2009 by k-rico]
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Terry28
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A better place with out booze and porn??What is this world coming to? Utah??
[Edited on 3-4-2009 by Terry28]
Mexico!! Where two can live as cheaply as one.....but it costs twice as much.....
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Pescador
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I can totally understand Fishbuck's position and it is echoed throughout society, but I have also come to realize that what I think of drugs relates
to my value structure and determines whether or not I am going to use them. Where we run crossways, is that we have a major problem when we impose
our belief system on someone else. I don't want to smoke pot but if you do, I hope you will take responsibility for your actions.
Do some people get addicted? Of course, some people are addicted to gambling, some to porn, some to alcohol, but we learned with prohibition that
the answer was not to make it illegal because that did not change anything except to drive the price up.
Now, whenever anything is illegal to sell and distribute, we find that the distribution and sale of that illegal commodity is handled by the crooks
and underground. This happened with prohibition it is certainly happening with drugs. It happens with all high interest items that are in the market
but illegal. Think about how sex, drugs, assasinations, etc., are marketed. By choosing to sell things that are illegal, the price goes way up which
is commensurate with the risk involved.
So our leaders were wise enough to recognize that during prohiition that the underworld was unbeatable, the hunger for alcohol too great, and the
only thing that made sense was to end prohibition and make the sale and distribution of alcohol legal and taxable. We still have problems with abuse
and alcoholism, but we no longer have to tolerate rum runners, mafia hit men shooting up the place, moonshiners, etc.. Instead, we allow the person,
of a certain age, to make up his own mind about whether or not he wants to use and we control those things that we can control, like driving while
under the influence, public intoxication, etc.,
Do we allow those companies to advertise and try to "hook" new customers? Let your mind think about the Superbowl ads for "Supersmoke" that makes
you cool and gets the girls to fall all over you.
Drugs are a product, plain and simple, and obviously some people want to buy these things. The first step is to admit that the present system is
broken and not working and maybewe can take a fresh look. I think it is Prohibition all over again.
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Barry A.
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Well said, Pescador. I find that my staunch "anti-legalization" mind-set is wavering-----------and I am almost ready to throw in the
towel--------actually, probably ready.
(sigh)
------and Shari's contribution makes a lot of sense to me, also.
Barry
[Edited on 3-4-2009 by Barry A.]
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Bajahowodd
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As part of a forbidden fruit analysis regarding vices, there was a recent study published that showed socially conservative states have a higher rate
of online porn subscribers than do liberal states. Utah and Louisiana were listed as the highest. The survey was of broadband subscribers, only. But
someone would have to really be desperate to attempt watching porn on dial-up.
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Barry A.
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That seems like flawed or skewed info to me---------I lived in Utah for 4 years and they always impressed me as being highly liberal, sexually
speaking.
There are a lot of non-LDS folks there that are on the dole, and take advantage of Utah's liberal aid policies. To me Utah is "conservative" only in
their political views.
I don't understand the "porn" connection---------------
Barry
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DENNIS
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If the U.S. would put just half the effort into the flawed penal system as she has trying to clean up Mexico, the illegalities woudn't be so costly
to society. Put the law breakers to work to earn their keep. Form a prisoner WPA and make them build roads and dams and parks. Take away their civil
rights and ban the ACLU from meddeling in prisoner "rights." Then, rewrite the Constitution and Bill Of Rights to reflect the current state of
affairs. Those worn out, stale old rags are the biggest problem facing America today.
Oh yeah...if prisoners don't want to comply or cause trouble in the process....shoot 'em.
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fishbuck
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Registered: 8-31-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
If the U.S. would put just half the effort into the flawed penal system as she has trying to clean up Mexico, the illegalities woudn't be so costly
to society. Put the law breakers to work to earn their keep. Form a prisoner WPA and make them build roads and dams and parks. Take away their civil
rights and ban the ACLU from meddeling in prisoner "rights." Then, rewrite the Constitution and Bill Of Rights to reflect the current state of
affairs. Those worn out, stale old rags are the biggest problem facing America today.
Oh yeah...if prisoners don't want to comply or cause trouble in the process....shoot 'em. |
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/02/judges-jailed-for-ta.ht...
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
If the U.S. would put just half the effort into the flawed penal system as she has trying to clean up Mexico, the illegalities woudn't be so costly
to society. Put the law breakers to work to earn their keep. Form a prisoner WPA and make them build roads and dams and parks. Take away their civil
rights and ban the ACLU from meddeling in prisoner "rights." Then, rewrite the Constitution and Bill Of Rights to reflect the current state of
affairs. Those worn out, stale old rags are the biggest problem facing America today.
Oh yeah...if prisoners don't want to comply or cause trouble in the process....shoot 'em. |
http://www.citizensugar.com/2806723
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
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These garbage pail judges would be the first ones swinging a pick on the new interstate.
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
These garbage pail judges would be the first ones swinging a pick on the new interstate. |
"DENNIS for President!"
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
"DENNIS for President!" |
Oh Yeah...I like that. I'll mix it up with my other title and straighten this place out.
President / Moderator DENNIS.
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