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k-rico
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"Around 10 years ago, Audi and other German luxury carmakers introduced an electronic fail-safe system in their cars that would respond to
pressure on the brake pedal, even if the gas pedal were depressed and the throttle in an open position.
With prodding from NHTSA, Toyota is now installing an electronic "brake override" not only in recalled vehicles, but also across the entire model
range.
A senior U.S.-based Toyota executive suggested such a remedy years ago. It's puzzling that, given the number of complaints, cash-rich Toyota didn't
take such a step earlier. The software fix is expected to cost $1 billion -- not a big sum for a company that had more than $30 billion in cash at the
end of the last fiscal year.
"I'm sure, in retrospect, they wish they had," says Metro Detroit Toyota dealer Bob Page. The Toyota that won over the American market in the 1970s
and 1980s probably would have."
http://detnews.com/article/20100211/OPINION01/2110340/Toyota...
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Sad that 'profit' has been turned into a bad word... the end of the free world happens when profit making/ job creating businesses are made to be
'bad' in the eyes of the masses... and the government takes over businesses that don't make a profit using money it doesn't have...
Profit is how we have prosperity, and can help others... create jobs... make new products... enjoy recreation.
You really think Toyota wants to hurt people, that they will have better business with these problems?
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I think toyota hid the defects in effort to stay profitable. Our govt (NHTSA) colluded with toyota in ignoring consumer complaints, data indicating a
problem. When people started dieing, our govt started backpedaling from their cozy relationship with toyota,... and toyota had a problem on their
hands. Toyota presennted a partial solution to their customers,... but whole story is not out yet,... still waiting for other shoe to drop.
dk: in this case profit motive was very bad, profit was put ahead of human lives.
now those NHTSA guys: probably a bunch of good old boy holdovers from the bush years 
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Baja Boy----------the "party" (republicans?) would approve--------we are all about "responsibility", and criticism applies across the board no matter
where lack of it originates from.
Barry |
Exactly! The rules should be the SAME for EVERYONE... No 'special' deals for people based on things they cannot control... just like the way Dr. King
invisioned.
The Republican party is the party of the people... responsible people who don't expect to have them or their neighbors foot the bill for other
people's lack of responsibility... who want government to get out of people's way to create jobs and income for everyone ... and only do those things
directed by the constitution.
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Baja Boy----------the "party" (republicans?) would approve--------we are all about "responsibility", and criticism applies across the board no matter
where lack of it originates from.
Barry |
Exactly! The rules should be the SAME for EVERYONE... No 'special' deals for people based on things they cannot control... just like the way Dr. King
invisioned.
The Republican party is the party of the people... responsible people who don't expect to have them or their neighbors foot the bill for other
people's lack of responsibility... who want government to get out of people's way to create jobs and income for everyone ... and only do those things
directed by the constitution. |
Okay, so you're saying that we don't have to "Buy American" and that it is to buy Chinese as long as it's a better product/value. Just wanted to
confirm 
And DK-it's envisioned.
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BajaGringo
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Toyota must step up to the plate NOW and remedy this NOW - no more excuses. They risk ending up with a black eye that won't go away in a market that
is already very difficult and more competitive than ever for fewer buyers at lower profit margins per unit.
Yes, DK - profits are a good thing and what make a free market economy work. But like all in life there are checks and balances and that is why we
have consumer safety laws. Putting profits ahead of consumer safety is just not good business in any business plan.
Hopefully they fire a few at the corporate level. Serious errors were made...
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k-rico
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I wish we could keep politics out of this.
I find this technically interesting. The SUA (sudden unwanted acceleration) problem has been around for years in the fly-by-wire automotive systems.
The article I referenced above stated that Audi experienced it 10 years ago and never figured out exactly what was going wrong so they put in the
brake override system to prevent this mysterious digital gremlin from doing harm.
Therefore one can assume that ALL auto manufacturers knew that these digital control mechanisms, that rely on low voltage digital circuits to keep the
ones and zeros straight, exhibit unpredictable behavior in the under-the-hood harsh environment.
Toyota and who knows what other manufacturers decided to not implement the fail-safe system. Why not?
And, this kind of stuff is real important to nomads because we drive in real harsh environments far from mechanics who can connect specialized
diagnostic equipment to automotive digital control systems to diagnose and fix these high tech problems.
Old fashioned springs and levers are good things, as wessongroup said.
[Edited on 2-16-2010 by k-rico]
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BajaGringo
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And we also end up on back roads, far from any help or lines of communication. Toyota has its work cut out...
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Bajahowodd
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Toyota Wants To Hurt People??
Industry has put profit ahead of all else seemingly forever. In the case of the automotive industry, recall that it was all the way back in 1965 when
Ralph Nader published "Unsafe At Any Speed" which dealt mainly with known defects in the Corvair. But, flash forward to a fatal accident that occurred
with a Ford Pinto in 1981. It was long felt that the Pinto gas tank was unusually vulnerable to rupture from rear end collisions. The California
Courts, in Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company (119 Cal Rptr. 248) awarded a badly burned passenger $2.5 million in compensatory damages and $3.5 million
in punitive damages. The punitive damages arose because the court pointed out the an internal cost- benefit analysis memo at Ford had recommended
against implementing an $11 per vehicle fix. Good old Mother Jones magazine obtained a copy of that memo and shared it in their magazine. The pinto
had come to be known as the "barbecue that seats four".
We may assume that US auto manufacturers have learned from episodes of that sort. However, Japanese industry executives come from a different cultural
mind set.
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BajaGringo
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Let's hope they are fast learners...
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
I wish we could keep politics out of this.
I find this technically interesting. The SUA (sudden unwanted acceleration) problem has been around for years in the fly-by-wire automotive systems.
The article I referenced above stated that Audi experienced it 10 years ago and never figured out exactly what was going wrong so they put in the
brake override system to prevent this mysterious digital gremlin from doing harm.
Therefore one can assume that ALL auto manufacturers knew that these digital control mechanisms, that rely on low voltage digital circuits to keep the
ones and zeros straight, exhibit unpredictable behavior in the under-the-hood harsh environment.
Toyota and who knows what other manufacturers decided to not implement the fail-safe system. Why not?
And, this kind of stuff is real important to nomads because we drive in real harsh environments far from mechanics who can connect specialized
diagnostic equipment to automotive digital control systems to diagnose and fix these high tech problems.
Old fashioned springs and levers are good things, as wessongroup said.
[Edited on 2-16-2010 by k-rico] |
in the long run, the free market will be the solution -- don't buy a car without a kill switch. don't buy a car with a push-button ignition (a switch
that require unacceptably long 3-seconds to deactivate). don't buy a car that doesn't have redundant system to decrease gas supply when brake is
depressed.
in the short run, we need govt regulators to kick some tail at toyota, so they fix the death traps already on the road
free market with tough regulators: democrats will do it. redumblicans won't regulate.
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Bajahowodd
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From what I have read, reports of unexplained acceleration have been known by Toyota dating back to 2004. You could have said the same thing about
Ford execs 3 decades ago.
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Barry A.
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Audi had a similar problem in the late 80's & '90's. Cars going thru walls, into swimming pools, etc. etc.. I had an 83' Audi 5000 Turbo at the
time, and no recall's, as I remember. Never had a problem that my brakes couldn't solve, tho. The car was kinda squirrly that way tho, and you had
to pay attention----always wanted to GO. I loved that car-------went like a bat-out-of-H--L !!! Sold it to an Audi mechanic for almost what I paid
for it, after 6 years of fun.
Then there was the Consumers Report on Isuzu Trooper's tipping over (they claimed)---------ruined Isuzu American, and they never recovered. I owned a
Trooper at the time, and yes it was tippy------after all it WAS a 4x4, not a race car.
Jeeeezo!!!!!
Barry
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David K
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Same thing happened to the Jeep CJ-5 (and CJ-7)... 60 minutes showed how 'easy' it was to tip over... (it took numerous attempts, but CBS wouldn't
tell you that)! The Wrangler YJ was created with lower stance and a wider track to reduce tip over ability... The media killed the Jeep CJ, around
since 1945 and the CJ-5 was born in 1955. For something to be so 'bad', it sure was enjoyed for a lot of years!
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805gregg
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Toyota now up to 34 deaths, they accelerate for no reason, the brakes don't work, the lights turn off while you are driving, and now Camery's have a
steering problem, that makes you drive off the road. How do you keep track of well over 8 million recalls? Why would anyone buy this crap. Americans
need to send them a message, just stop buying and stop promoting these over rated death traps.
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Packoderm
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by 805gregg
Toyota now up to 34 deaths, they accelerate for no reason, the brakes don't work, the lights turn off while you are driving, and now Camery's have a
steering problem, that makes you drive off the road. How do you keep track of well over 8 million recalls? Why would anyone buy this crap. Americans
need to send them a message, just stop buying and stop promoting these over rated death traps. |
That is so sad... is there ANY truth to any of this? Any Nomad Toyota owners have ANY of this happen to them?
The government and its media puppets will do anything to help lacking sales of GM cars!
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torch
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One thing that I know is my brother is selling alot me Fords.
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TMW
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
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There may be some truth to that. The other vehicles just stop dead and leave you stranded. Toyota takes you home no matter what.
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Bajahowodd
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Audi had a similar problem in the late 80's & '90's. Cars going thru walls, into swimming pools, etc. etc.. I had an 83' Audi 5000 Turbo at the
time, and no recall's, as I remember. Never had a problem that my brakes couldn't solve, tho. The car was kinda squirrly that way tho, and you had
to pay attention----always wanted to GO. I loved that car-------went like a bat-out-of-H--L !!! Sold it to an Audi mechanic for almost what I paid
for it, after 6 years of fun.
Then there was the Consumers Report on Isuzu Trooper's tipping over (they claimed)---------ruined Isuzu American, and they never recovered. I owned a
Trooper at the time, and yes it was tippy------after all it WAS a 4x4, not a race car.
Jeeeezo!!!!!
Barry |
Hey Barry! What are you driving now? Just so I'll know what to avoid when looking for my next ride.
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805gregg
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Now internal memos saying how Toyota saved millions by pretending it was the floor mats and thus avoiding a recall for a few years. And on CBS news a
scientist duplicated the unwanted acceleration with an electrical short, that didn't throw any check engine codes.
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