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SKIDS
Junior Nomad
Posts: 48
Registered: 3-10-2009
Location: Jamul Ca.
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Wow !! What is happening to our society ? Where have our morals gone. Just look whats on the television these days. It makes me sad to see our morals,
work ethics , respect errode before our eyes. Grandaugthers ( 8 and 10 yrs old) surfing the channels ending up watching jerry springer gay cheating
lovers punching it out, I walked in and changed the channel.
I'm not real religous ,I'm just a country boy who knows right from wrong !
SKIDS
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SKIDS
Wow !! What is happening to our society ? Where have our morals gone. Just look whats on the television these days. It makes me sad to see our morals,
work ethics , respect errode before our eyes. Grandaugthers ( 8 and 10 yrs old) surfing the channels ending up watching jerry springer gay cheating
lovers punching it out, I walked in and changed the channel.
I'm not real religous ,I'm just a country boy who knows right from wrong !
SKIDS |
Yeah....you're right. We we were young, it was Barnum And Bailey for something different. Now look at what we have. It's really scarey.
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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Wow...a majority is now a "Mob"....that's a giant leap down a sheet of ice.
How many gay people in California re there who want to get married?
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Morals? Try ethics and the constitution. I can absolutely agree with anyone of a certain age, who lived through much of the 20th century, that times
have apparently change. But, the changes that trouble me most are the ones that seem to empower those who would seek to impose their beliefs and their
lifestyle on others. Please get real folks. Do whatever you want to do. Live the way you wish to live. Let others do the same. Threats are from armed
robbers, bankers, and corporate directors. Not from your law-abiding neighbors, who will not seek to harm you in any way, lest you seek to harm them.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Wow...a majority is now a "Mob"....that's a giant leap down a sheet of ice.
How many gay people in California re there who want to get married? |
Don't have a clue, but it could help to save the state economy if they would charge about two million bucks for a license.
Either that or the issue would disappear.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Do whatever you want to do. Live the way you wish to live. Let others do the same. |
We've all seen Reefer Madness........did they ever make a film called Gay Madness? I'll bet someone is working on that.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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It is what it is Skids, there is nothing you or I can do. The morals, ethics, thoughts and lessons on what is right or wrong that I was raised with
are gone today. All I do is shake my head, and continue living my life, my way. I did vote yes on Prop 8. I also think that same sex marriage is a
very minor issue compared to all the other serious problems today. Let it go, and we can concentrate on homelessness, starving children, and corrupt
financial and political systems!
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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And most could afford it.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
it could help to save the state economy if they would charge about two million bucks for a license.
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For a persecuted minority who complain about the mostly economic benefits granted by marriage, most seem to be doing pretty well. 
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
it could help to save the state economy if they would charge about two million bucks for a license.
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For a persecuted minority who complain about the mostly economic benefits granted by marriage, most seem to be doing pretty well. |
The economic benefits of marriage? (I'm still marinating on that one..) There shouldn't be any economic benefit or penalty associated with
marriage- and why discriminate against single people?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Wow...a majority is now a "Mob"....that's a giant leap down a sheet of ice.
How many gay people in California re there who want to get married? |
Often some of the founding fathers referred to the majority as rabble or the mob and our government was set up to protect the minority from the
majority.
And many couples who have been together for many years do want to marry. Not just the ones we know, but when they could marry in California, they
flocked to the court houses to marry. Many had previously married in other ceremonies of committment, but they wanted the legal rights that only a
government sanctioned marriage would grant.
And for those who yearn for the good ole days, please remember that those good ole days were good mainly if you were a white protestant male----no so
good for many of the "others".
But it is time to no longer open this thread. While the bigotry and insults could be excused as just ignorant, it begins to become personal. We have
a number of friends who are gay, and it might surprise some of you to know that a few belong to this forum.
Our gay friends deserve the same civil rights that we enjoy. To deny this is unAmericaan.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Wow...a majority is now a "Mob"....that's a giant leap down a sheet of ice.
How many gay people in California re there who want to get married? |
Often some of the founding fathers referred to the majority as rabble or the mob and our government was set up to protect the minority from the
majority.
And many couples who have been together for many years do want to marry. Not just the ones we know, but when they could marry in California, they
flocked to the court houses to marry. Many had previously married in other ceremonies of committment, but they wanted the legal rights that only a
government sanctioned marriage would grant.
And for those who yearn for the good ole days, please remember that those good ole days were good mainly if you were a white protestant male----no so
good for many of the "others".
But it is time to no longer open this thread. While the bigotry and insults could be excused as just ignorant, it begins to become personal. We have
a number of friends who are gay, and it might surprise some of you to know that a few belong to this forum.
Our gay friends deserve the same civil rights that we enjoy. To deny this is unAmericaan. |
I thought the thread stayed pretty respectful. The really mean people must be out of town. 
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
"Mexico reaffirms gay marriages. Not hard to be more enlightened than California"
You can't legislate people's minds. Now they have a law which virtually no Mexican believes in. |
However, one can legislate to protect minorities and ensure their human and civil rights. The arguments against gay marriage are very much the same
as the ones used against interracial marrage in the past---that too had to be legislated in many places.
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Then the laws should be changed, Diane.
It's a tremendous waste of people's time and money to set up an election and have someone come along and say, 'sorry folks'.
Our system should first determine the constitutionality of a law and then allow people to vote on it. But once the courts decide on it there should be
no backtracking and once again reversing the laws.
The problem is that the current system makes a mockery of elections and thereby democracy itself.
IMO the courts have too much power and they are inconsistent. The same Constitution is interpreted in different ways depending on who is making the
judgement. So saying that the courts are a system of balance that keeps us from doing 'bad' is nonsense. The death penalty is constitutional in some
states and not in others (what's more black and white than life and death). The abortion rights people have the upper hand now but it could change in
a flash and still be 'constitutional'. Every president makes sure to appoint a Supreme Court judge that shares 'his' interpretation of the
Constitution.
This entire 'constitutional' argument is a strawman used by those who are in agreement with the decision, and really nothing more. If you read this
thread you will note that all of those who talk about the importance of supporting the Constitution (against "Mob Rule") are in fact liberal nomads
who simply agree with the current ruling.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Marriage for gays? Why not? Seems sorta weird, but heck, it's a personal decision between two people. Who's harmed by their decision? What right do I
or anyone else have to impose my personal beliefs on others? Guess the operative word here is "personal".
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kaybaj
Junior Nomad
Posts: 92
Registered: 4-27-2010
Location: bahia asuncion
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Kinky Friedman when running for gov of Texas was asked what he thought about gay marriage. he said, "I don't have a problem with that. Why shoudn't
they be as miserable as the rest of us." 
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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I'd like to read the reasons why people are against same-sex marriage. Give it your best shot.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
I'd like to read the reasons why people are against same-sex marriage. Give it your best shot. |
I couldn't care less if they get married, but why? What advantage could there be in gay marriage that couldn't be gained through a business
partnership?
I am so completely sick and tired of seeing demonstrations and parades with a bunch of dancing poodles and overweight, female lumberjacks waving
rainbow banners. Let them do what they want to do, but keep it out of my face.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
I'd like to read the reasons why people are against same-sex marriage. Give it your best shot. |
I couldn't care less if they get married, but why? What advantage could there be in gay marriage that couldn't be gained through a business
partnership?
I am so completely sick and tired of seeing demonstrations and parades with a bunch of dancing poodles and overweight, female lumberjacks waving
rainbow banners. Let them do what they want to do, but keep it out of my face. |
Gotta go with Dennis on
this one. I voted, it passed, a judge overturned the choice of the voters. Oh well, do what you will, but don't try to shove it down everyone elses
throat! If we can remove the media attention and just let people get back to business as normal, I can stop having to see the same stock footage of
happy gay couples sealing there vows with smooches on every news show aired. To quote another Dennis, " That's my opinion, I may be wrong".
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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First of all, I apologize for the bold letters---just was easier to write in the quote box.
And yes, I weakened and came back to this thread. I believe it was Emerson who said consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Or maybe it is
because it really is so difficult for me to understand why ANYONE would want to deny basic civil rights to people. Has someone actually been harmed
or threatened by a gay marriage?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Then the laws should be changed, Diane.
It's a tremendous waste of people's time and money to set up an election and have someone come along and say, 'sorry folks'.
The system was set up so that the courts only rule on a law if it is challenged on legitimate Constitutional Grounds. And following that
argument, I guess that one might believe that the Brown vs the Board of Education should have never happened. Afterall, the laws of discrimination
were passed by the legislature and approved of by probably the majority of people. If instead of the courts making this decision, it had been put to
a vote, the discrimination would have continued. Even President Eisenhower, a native of Kansas was very bigoted and very much opposed that decision.
He only enforced it because it was his Constitutional duty to do so.
Our system should first determine the constitutionality of a law and then allow people to vote on it. But once the courts decide on it there should be
no backtracking and once again reversing the laws.
The problem is that the current system makes a mockery of elections and thereby democracy itself.
That would make a mockery of the entire US government and how it was set-up. Besides, often it is only a part of a law that is declared
unconstitutional. Like in the case of C C and Rs that are passed by governing bodies, many of the provisions are upheld, and some are not, like
discrimination, or rules against the flying of the American flag, or the installation of satelllite dishes----those have been declared an infringment
upon the rights of the individuals.
IMO the courts have too much power and they are inconsistent. The same Constitution is interpreted in different ways depending on who is making the
judgement. So saying that the courts are a system of balance that keeps us from doing 'bad' is nonsense. The death penalty is constitutional in some
states and not in others (what's more black and white than life and death). The abortion rights people have the upper hand now but it could change in
a flash and still be 'constitutional'. Every president makes sure to appoint a Supreme Court judge that shares 'his' interpretation of the
Constitution.
Yes, courts do change as does the intrepretaiton of the Constitution. The Constitution is an amazing piece of work. It was intended to
be vague to accomodate changing situations. It is why it has lasted so long. And BTW, I do not know of anyone who is an abortion rights person,
most I know are in favor of pro-choice for women. And sometimes justices surprise their appointers --- Warren certainly surprised
Eisenhower---Warren, never quite forgave himself for the awful decisions he made as Gov. of California that took away the rights of many Americans.
Equal justice has been and still is a work in progress.
This entire 'constitutional' argument is a strawman used by those who are in agreement with the decision, and really nothing more. If you read this
thread you will note that all of those who talk about the importance of supporting the Constitution (against "Mob Rule") are in fact liberal nomads
who simply agree with the current ruling.
I guess one could say that arguing in favor of a majority vote that was extremely well funded by forces from outside of California is a
strawman argument by nomads who are homophobic and want to deny civil rights to a part of the society. This is not a liberal, conservative issue, it
is an issue of civil rights and over the progression of this country, it has been the courts who have protected Constitutional Civil Rights. It began
back with the Marbury vs Madison decision and has evolved from there. Yes, we have come a long ways fromt he Dread Scot decision.
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It does not mean that churches will be forced into marrying gays, or that anyone will be forced to attend the wedding, or that anyone has to be
friends with any gays. It just the simple granting of legal rights to individuals.
And Woosh---yea, it has been more civil than often, and I do understand that the tasteless jokes and comments are born out of either ignorance or
homophobia----often incurable conditions. 
So, I may or may not be back----off for the morning walk by the surf.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
I believe it was Emerson who said consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. |
Is that supposed to be good or bad?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
It just the simple granting of legal rights to individuals.
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If the gays in question wanted to be individuals, we wouldn't be having this little chat. 
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