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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
the crime in la bocana is the least I have seen anywhere. in my life. it is such a small town. we are a community of 651 people. ditto for punta
abreojos. the only crime to speak of is petty theft - a kid who is on drugs and steals from his mom and dad (who turn him or her in), a kid who
"borrows" a neighbor's car, typical youngster stuff.
the one VERY SERIOUS criminal act in 5 years that La Bocana did have involved 2 Americans being brutally attacked......and was (rumor has it) drug
related. It was horrible, nonetheless, and the whole town got together to figure out how to never let it happen again (the perpetrators were never
found/arrested...true Baja politics).
when I think of moving elsewhere, I honestly cannot think of anywhere in the whole world where I would feel safer and that is one reason we are here.
not to mention that it is gorgeous. not to mention that our Mexican neighbors are kind and friendly. not to mention that the fishing is some of the
best on the peninsula. but really, without safety, all the above is useless. |
It sounds a lot like where we chose to live.
The community around us came to our aid, saved our lives and help the police chase down and catch our attackers. They have watched over and cared for
our property/pets in our absence and have become our extended family...
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
I completely disagree about violence in Baja. I think it's mostly hype. |
That's because you are not a Mexican.
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Oddjob
Banned
Posts: 330
Registered: 7-30-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
the crime in la bocana is the least I have seen anywhere. in my life. it is such a small town. we are a community of 651 people. ditto for punta
abreojos. the only crime to speak of is petty theft - a kid who is on drugs and steals from his mom and dad (who turn him or her in), a kid who
"borrows" a neighbor's car, typical youngster stuff.
the one VERY SERIOUS criminal act in 5 years that La Bocana did have involved 2 Americans being brutally attacked......and was (rumor has it) drug
related. It was horrible, nonetheless, and the whole town got together to figure out how to never let it happen again (the perpetrators were never
found/arrested...true Baja politics).
when I think of moving elsewhere, I honestly cannot think of anywhere in the whole world where I would feel safer and that is one reason we are here.
not to mention that it is gorgeous. not to mention that our Mexican neighbors are kind and friendly. not to mention that the fishing is some of the
best on the peninsula. but really, without safety, all the above is useless. |
I remember the attack of the father and son while they were sleeping in La Bocana, but the rumor that it was drug related was false. It seems that
everyone knew the attacker, and he was never arrested or charged with the assault. Mexican justice?
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=34051#pid3551...
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
The community around us came to our aid, saved our lives and help the police chase down and catch our attackers. |
The people that tried to kill you and your wife were also from the same community. You said in an earlier post you knew two of them.
Being attacked by the community and then rescued by the community is one Hell of a way to go through life.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Yea, Every community has it's good, it's bad and it's ugly.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
The community around us came to our aid, saved our lives and help the police chase down and catch our attackers. |
The people that tried to kill you and your wife were also from the same community. You said in an earlier post you knew two of them.
Being attacked by the community and then rescued by the community is one Hell of a way to go through life. |
Nope - they were all from Sinaloa. I recognized two of them as they had been down here on the beach working odd jobs the year before. The community
around us would have killed them if the police hadn't gotten to them first...
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
I completely disagree about violence in Baja. I think it's mostly hype. |
That's because you are not a Mexican. |
It's not just for Mexicans to see. Only the voluntarily blind will ignore the reports in the Mexico newspapers. Fulano [ ] and Maggie alone do a good job of keeping the English Only reader aware of
events.
Three assaults on expats in the last two weeks, two resulting in brutal death, in my neighborhood alone, and those are only what I've read about.
This is definitly the harbinger of a trend that may not end any time soon. Many of the disenfranchised and morally decrepit have seen what the world
has, that violence in Mexico can't be stopped and it has it's rewards. They know that apprehension is a crap-shoot and crime in Mexico has, in the
past, gone largely unpunished and they're willing to take the chance.
This is the way it is. It hasn't been like this forever, but it's a trend that is gaining in popularity. Look at some of the perp-walk fotos being
shown to the public. Many of these suspects are young, clean cut. Not the gang-banger type we see NOB. Crime is becoming a popular activity and it's
boundless. Murder is becoming a reasonable solution for so many people.
I don't know about you, but this scares the sheit out of me and I've been to a lot of county fairs.
"Mostly hype??" My asss.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
I completely disagree about violence in Baja. I think it's mostly hype. |
That's because you are not a Mexican. |
It's not just for Mexicans to see. Only the voluntarily blind will ignore the reports in the Mexico newspapers. Fulano [] and Maggie alone do a good job of keeping the English Only reader aware of
events.
Three assaults on expats in the last two weeks, two resulting in brutal death, in my neighborhood alone, and those are only what I've read about.
This is definitly the harbinger of a trend that may not end any time soon. Many of the disenfranchised and morally decrepit have seen what the world
has, that violence in Mexico can't be stopped and it has it's rewards. They know that apprehension is a crap-shoot and crime in Mexico has, in the
past, gone largely unpunished and they're willing to take the chance.
This is the way it is. It hasn't been like this forever, but it's a trend that is gaining in popularity. Look at some of the perp-walk fotos being
shown to the public. Many of these suspects are young, clean cut. Not the gang-banger type we see NOB. Crime is becoming a popular activity and it's
boundless. Murder is becoming a reasonable solution for so many people.
I don't know about you, but this scares the sheit out of me and I've been to a lot of county fairs.
"Mostly hype??" My burrro. |
That really sucks Dennis. It is a changing environment and while we made the decision to come back down I have said that I wouldn't blame anyone who
thinks differently.
Our community around us is a large group of families all related by blood. Brothers, sisters, moms, dads, cousins, nieces, nephews and grandchildren.
They are very tight knit and we feel fortunate to be accepted in as members of the community. They reacted to us and what happened as family would and
I give them full credit for us being alive today and the perps behind bars.
Not all communities are the same down here and one must make the decision of if/where on a case to case basis with full knowledge of what is going on
and evaluating their own situation / comfort zone...
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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The reality is that violent crimes to gringos appear to be increasing and the attacks are especially gruesome. They cannot be denied or ignored.
Gringos with homes seem to be newly targeted while the tourists are not (yet).
It requires intense observation and reading from many sources including Mexican Newspapers. Even then, in Mexico, Journalists are an endangered
species. They are intimidated and many are murdered. It is difficult to get the information needed to have an accurate picture of the scale of
violence. Isolated incidents DO string together to form a trend!!
While most of these new violent crimes are more concentrated in the north, we still have to drive through those areas to get south. As I do, I realize
that millions of people go about their daily lives without incident. Those are pretty good odds.
Throughout my lifetime I have refused to let fear guide my life. But fear does lurk in the background. How could it not? I will make my decisions
about returning to my Mulege home flexible. The driver of my decision will not be fear so much as informed caution. I will probably go again next
season but that could change. I will maintain all the usual precautions and certainly will not intervene in a burglary, make innuendos towards
anyone's girlfriend or associate in any way with people involved with drugs. I have never been very trusting, so that vigilance will remain.
A major quality of life issue is to not be terrorized by the threat of violence. Last year, Mulege did not engender that feeling. The general mood was
upbeat and our interaction with locals was good as always. I could still walk around, day or night, feeling free. The locals' attitudes towards
gringos could be affected by the increasingly downward economy. We will see.
The love of the Mexican scenery and the country's majority of good people are not enough to risk my life, if that is the perception I form. I am
continually monitoring and am will remain aware and flexible.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
The reality is that violent crimes to gringos appear to be increasing and the attacks are especially gruesome. They cannot be denied or ignored.
Gringos with homes seem to be newly targeted while the tourists are not (yet).
It requires intense observation and reading from many sources including Mexican Newspapers. Even then, in Mexico, Journalists are an endangered
species. They are intimidated and many are murdered. It is difficult to get the information needed to have an accurate picture of the scale of
violence. Isolated incidents DO string together to form a trend!!
While most of these new violent crimes are more concentrated in the north, we still have to drive through those areas to get south. As I do, I realize
that millions of people go about their daily lives without incident. Those are pretty good odds.
Throughout my lifetime I have refused to let fear guide my life. But fear does lurk in the background. How could it not? I will make my decisions
about returning to my Mulege home flexible. The driver of my decision will not be fear so much as informed caution. I will probably go again next
season but that could change. I will maintain all the usual precautions and certainly will not intervene in a burglary, make innuendos towards
anyone's girlfriend or associate in any way with people involved with drugs. I have never been very trusting, so that vigilance will remain.
A major quality of life issue is to not be terrorized by the threat of violence. Last year, Mulege did not engender that feeling. The general mood was
upbeat and our interaction with locals was good as always. I could still walk around, day or night, feeling free. The locals' attitudes towards
gringos could be affected by the increasingly downward economy. We will see.
The love of the Mexican scenery and the country's majority of good people are not enough to risk my life, if that is the perception I form. I am
continually monitoring and am will remain aware and flexible.
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Very well stated...
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Three assaults on expats in the last two weeks, two resulting in brutal death, in my neighborhood alone, and those are only what I've read about.
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As a point of order, there were four assaults and three American deaths. You probably forgot the poor American woman who had her head bashed in and
who was found in the Ensenada cemetery. Only one of these events were ever reported in the US press.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
I completely disagree about violence in Baja. I think it's mostly hype. |
That's because you are not a Mexican. |
It's not just for Mexicans to see. Only the voluntarily blind will ignore the reports in the Mexico newspapers. Fulano [] and Maggie alone do a good job of keeping the English Only reader aware of
events.
Three assaults on expats in the last two weeks, two resulting in brutal death, in my neighborhood alone, and those are only what I've read about.
This is definitly the harbinger of a trend that may not end any time soon. Many of the disenfranchised and morally decrepit have seen what the world
has, that violence in Mexico can't be stopped and it has it's rewards. They know that apprehension is a crap-shoot and crime in Mexico has, in the
past, gone largely unpunished and they're willing to take the chance.
This is the way it is. It hasn't been like this forever, but it's a trend that is gaining in popularity. Look at some of the perp-walk fotos being
shown to the public. Many of these suspects are young, clean cut. Not the gang-banger type we see NOB. Crime is becoming a popular activity and it's
boundless. Murder is becoming a reasonable solution for so many people.
I don't know about you, but this scares the sheit out of me and I've been to a lot of county fairs.
"Mostly hype??" My burrro. |
I agree with Dennis. The distinction I make when people say "It could have happened in the USA too, or the USA is just as bad" is that crime pays-
both in the USA and Mexico. The rich and connected get preferential treatment everywhere in the world. That's where the similarity ends. It is the
lack of consequences for extreme criminal actions in Mexico that make the two situations different. Americans will call the police for everything.
Mexicans won't call the police for anything important- the little stuff, yes. Most Mexican victims will not call the police for a number of reasons
(fear of police complicity, fear of real danger to their family if they report, and apathy that nothing will ever come of their reporting). If they
do report and the police do their jobs and arrest, the prosecutors lose to the criminal lawyers. If the are found guilty and are sent to jail, the
criminals know they can still get out. Everyone is Teflon down here- that's why they send the really bad guys stateside for prison.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18398
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Three assaults on expats in the last two weeks, two resulting in brutal death, in my neighborhood alone, and those are only what I've read about.
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As a point of order, there were four assaults and three American deaths. You probably forgot the poor American woman who had her head bashed in and
who was found in the Ensenada cemetery. Only one of these events were ever reported in the US press. |
fulano,
why don't your provide links to the articles your write to instill fear in tourists and ex pats? do you still own your house in las gaviotas? based
on your blogs it would appear you have abandoned mexico because of its lawlessness, to stay home in east county of san diego, eh? why are you still
obsessed with mexico and baja nomadlandia in particular?
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jakecard
Nomad
Posts: 141
Registered: 7-13-2011
Member Is Offline
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Does anyone have an opinion on whether it is "safer" to immerse yourself in or to isolate yourself from your local community in Baja?
Jake
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jakecard
Does anyone have an opinion on whether it is "safer" to immerse yourself in or to isolate yourself from your local community in Baja?
Very good question.
Jake |
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5901
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
I completely disagree about violence in Baja. I think it's mostly hype. |
That's because you are not a Mexican. |
Nope I'm not a Mexican, but my wife is. Born and raised in TJ till the age of 25, and she agrees with me.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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Quit it guys you're scaring me!
Gringos being targeted!
Gringos being killed and tied up like animals!
Yet the "Nomad" members that want to scare other "Nomad" members from living or visiting Mexico they themselves are still living in Mexico, although
they do seem to be cowering in fear under the blankets or peaking behind their windows.
But the question remains. Why do these fear mongers still live in Baja and other parts of Mexico?
Oh that's right they can't sell their Mexican property and don't want to take a substantial dollar lost of a few thousand dollars, and be forced back
to the states and living in a tiny apartment in San Diego without an ocean view.
Now me if I were that scared. I'd just walk away, and take whatever I could get for my property, because I think my life is more valuable that a few
thousand dollars.
There is no statistical evidence that gringos are being targeted in Mexico anymore than Mexican Nationals. The only evidence they have is a few
stories of a few gringos getting killed, and those types of stories are rare. The only thing going on is there has been a few of those stories close
together recently.
In the mean time life goes on in Mexico, and the line coming back from Mexico into the USA is longer than ever. Telling you that not everybody is
scared.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5901
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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My word "hype" upset some. Every time I tell someone I'm going to Baja I hear the same crap. "Aren't you afraid your going to get killed, shot,
tortured, beaten, or placed in a drum of acid?". The media did this to these people. They are scared. I'm not. Mexico is not Mogadishu. Baja is
pretty darn safe, unless you are a policeman or part of the drug trade. Now there may be pockets of unsafe areas, so it's best to avoid them. Let's
say there were 15 murders in 3 months in the Punta Banda area. I would avoid the Punta Banda area.
I worry about getting killed on the transpeninsular highway. I don't worry about getting killed while camping on a remote stretch of the seven
sisters. I do worry about breaking my leg out there, away from hospitals. I worry when I drive thru TJ a little. I worry when I work in South
Central LA.
It's taken us 4 billion years to get to this moment, alive, typing on a computer keyboard about issues that concern us. I want to stay alive. I want
good things for my fellow humans. The world can be a dangerous place to be alive. It's best to make judgements based on critical thinking and the
use of facts. Don't believe the hype!
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I don't know about you, but this scares the sheit out of me and I've been to a lot of county fairs.
"Mostly hype??" My burrro. |
Having the sheit scared out of you is your choice. Being afraid you'll be the next recipient of violence, and doing nothing about it, is
illogical. You might consider getting out of Ensenada.
It's different in BCS.
Regardless of it's problems, Baja is still Paradise to many. Your choice.
On the other hand, I've always thought life is cheap -- and cheaper in MX.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
That really sucks Dennis. It is a changing environment and while we made the decision to come back down I have said that I wouldn't blame anyone who
thinks differently.
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You're right, Ron. Now it's on us to make another decision....whether this is still heaven....or hell. I don't like it either, but I wood-framed my
house with this in mind. I may leave, but the house I leave behind will be left in cinders.
I'm close to that point.
I believe Soulpatch/Frank has seen the light....just in time. That alone makes me feel good. This is no place to be starting a new life with wife
and kids.
People here can accuse me of over-reacting and being alarmist. That's OK....maybe I am, but I choose to react with caution. This change in society
can't be dismissed as having no reason and it's trajectory must be studied.
I see it as dangerous.
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