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acadist
Super Nomad
Posts: 1125
Registered: 3-31-2007
Location: Spanaway,WA
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Mood: Waiting for the Sun
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Looks great! In your enviroment any paint/sealer will be more of a maintenance item. Plan on every year or two putting on a new coat. Just my 2
cents...from someone who sells paint. Little far but there is a Sherwin-Williams in Loreto. For solid color make sure you get concrete stain thin
first coat to absorb into the concrete and second coat to provide protection and even color. For the natural look use a concrete sealer, pretty easy
to apply with a bug type sprayer. Your biggest issue in making it last is making sure it is very clean when you paint, salt will not be your friend.
Dave
I moved to CO and they made me buy a little rod to make it feel like a real fish
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O.G.
Nomad
Posts: 109
Registered: 5-7-2010
Location: Ensenada
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Mood: waiting for the green flash
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ReBar
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
prolly right woodman!
the stairs were such a challenge...my eternal thanks to D for hangin in there and getting them right!!!!! gracias amigo
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You should have left that ReBar sticking up, Shari. To give it that authentic look.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
here is a photo of what the house looked like when we first started building onto it....how time flies eh!
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Wow, you will always feel a sense of accomplishment when you look at your beautiful home. You guys have manifested your dream. I am in awe!! Just
beautiful!
Iflyfish
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 12-13-2002
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OK sis you need some advice from a concrete expert. That's me, your bro. First, "cement" in your context is a white powdery substance that comes in
94# bags and is one of the three ingredients that makes up concrete (the other two are aggregate (rocks and/or sand) and water). Your beautiful rails
are CONCRETE, not cement. Never forget that  . Don't waste your time and money
on coatings on concrete in a coastal environment. The best thing that you can do to concrete after it hydrates (sets up or hardens) is to keep it
permanently under water, and that includes salt water. Think bridge foundations. So from a durability standpoint coatings are of no value on
concrete, however they may be aesthetically pleasing, your choice. But don't ever let anybody tell you that you need to smear anything on concrete to
make it more durable in a coastal environment.
carpe diem!
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shari
Select Nomad
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Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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oh my word...brother...mil disculpas for the cement/concrete mix up...I am blonde after all! I do hope our railings are never underwater..but they do
get daily spray from the blowhole.
So why does concrete break down and sort of slough off? And why do they make all those concrete sealants? I would be just fine leaving it au naturel
if it wasnt going to break down...it is a windy spot too...will it just erode away? Are you SURE we shouldnt seal it? We sure could use the money
saved on other things.
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Bob H
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: San Diego
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Shari, your place looks amazing! It just keeps growing and growing.
Listen to Ken Bondy, he knows what he's talking about. This subject is his livelyhood and he's an expert when it comes to concrete/cement, etc!
The SAME boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's about what you are made of NOT the circumstance.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Now Ken you well know how high you stand on my list of "respectables", but I'd really like to hear your argument against polymer sealants which have
proven to virtually eliminate the intrusion of water into finished concrete. I would cite their use on sidewalks in the north to prevent the spalling
from freeze/thaw as proof of their effectiveness as a waterproofer. It seems that anything that makes it take longer for the inevitable intrusion of
salt water onto the rebar would be a positive thing. If a baluster cracks the oxidation will swell the steel, and the little post might just pop. A
surface sealant won't stop that, but flexible caulking maintenance would help. I'm curious!
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
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vgabundo and shari
Elastomeric coatings are fine for preventing water intrusion through cracks in concrete and I have specified them many times on roofs. However for
this application I am dubious that a coating would provide much benefit. After hydration (the initial chemical reaction between the water and the
cement) the best thing you can do to concrete is to keep it wet. The highest quality concrete (strength, durability, permeability) is concrete that
is kept permanently underwater, like in bridge foundations. A coating on a concrete rail such as this may be aesthetically pleasing and it may help
to retain some excess mixing water (which is good), but I don't think it is necessary for the long term performance of the rail. One thing shari said
does concern me and that is the salt spray. Low quality concrete with a high water-to-cement ratio can be susceptible to spalling from excessive
wetting and drying. That might be the only valid reason for a coating.
carpe diem!
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Russ
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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I had them at my 1st place down here. they're still there 17 years later and I doubt they have been repainted. So IMHO I think a quality solid body
stain would work well. I've used stain on my new place and it's working great.
[Edited on 6-15-2012 by Russ]
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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she needs to seal that concrete from the salt spray in the air. apples to apples and a scientific explanation of the properties of, ahem, concrete
don't negate the fact that the concrete WILL mold/stain on the ocean side, WILL crack in short order and WILL be better protected by a quality sealer.
just do it!
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Puckdrop
Nomad
Posts: 147
Registered: 2-16-2011
Location: Vancouver BC / Loreto, BCS
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Mood: Liven the dream baby !
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Oh Shari, by this time you must be totally confused and just want to go have a couple of tequila's. having been in the construction industry for the
past 39 years I really have to concur with Ken. Concrete is one of mans best inventions. You can shape in into any shape you want and maintain it's
structural integrity. No need to do anything to it, just pour let it cure and it will stand the test of time for hundreds of years. Case and point,
the Roman Colosseum, and hundreds of 700 year old churches in Europe ! The only thing that might have been applied to those concrete structures is a
bit of pee from the local town drunks !It really comes down to appearance. Do you want to have el-natural look or spiff it up with color ? Sealants
and all other concrete products are nothing but some company's trying to make money. Sorry to confuse you even more but that's my 39 year 2 cent worth
of advice.
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Sis, I don't want to start any more wars. Based on my experience (50 years now)
with the design and construction of hundreds of concrete buildings in coastal areas of Florida, Hawaii, and California, including many within a few
feet of the surf line, and what i know about your project, I would not apply a coating if it was my railing. I think the money could be better spent
elsewhere. But if you feel more comfortable with some form of coating, by all means start painting. Other than cost there is no downside to painting on a coating, particularly if it makes you feel better.
carpe diem!
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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^^^^what he said^^^^
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
vgabundo and shari
Elastomeric coatings are fine for preventing water intrusion through cracks in concrete and I have specified them many times on roofs. However for
this application I am dubious that a coating would provide much benefit. After hydration (the initial chemical reaction between the water and the
cement) the best thing you can do to concrete is to keep it wet. The highest quality concrete (strength, durability, permeability) is concrete that
is kept permanently underwater, like in bridge foundations. A coating on a concrete rail such as this may be aesthetically pleasing and it may help
to retain some excess mixing water (which is good), but I don't think it is necessary for the long term performance of the rail. One thing shari said
does concern me and that is the salt spray. Low quality concrete with a high water-to-cement ratio can be susceptible to spalling from excessive
wetting and drying. That might be the only valid reason for a coating. |
Hey Ken, since you are in the biz I'm sure you are familar with KIM ADMIX for waterproofing concrete. The Navy uses it a lot for underwater structures
but of course it is added into the concrete pour; not after the 28 day cure. The same company that makes that(http://www.kryton.com ) also makes a sealant that is applied afterwards and is used on repairing/ sealing cracks, etc. on ferro-cement boats. Only
reason is to protect the embeded rebar which will ruin a ferro-cement hull if it begains to rust; much like the rebar in the ballisters.
Bob Durrell
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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oh this IS rich! I just knew a Nomad brother would come to my aid. One of the man things I love about our rock rooms is that we dont have to seal and
paint them...ever! No unsightly paint peeling, colour matching, painting..and it always looks great...low maintenance which is my motto! So I am happy
to go with the unpainted, untreated if the experts say so.
I am a bit concerned with the "Low quality concrete with a high water-to-cement ratio can be susceptible to spalling from excessive wetting and
drying. " as Ken mentioned...this is most likely the case on the hand rail on top anyway...the actual spindles look pretty skookum...but the top rail
may have some quality cement issues....and they do get wet and dry from the blowhole on a daily basis...with salt water...hmmm
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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shari did you cast the verticals yourself onsite or did you buy them from a fabricator? Do you know if they contain any reinforcing steel?
carpe diem!
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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we purchased them in Vizcaino...they seem pretty solid and have a rebar down the middle.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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I agree with Ken.
Example of how forgiving cement is. All the homes here until recently used beach sand for their cement mixes. Block, mortar, brown coat and slabs.
Most are in fair shape. The ones that are not holding up well are because the contractors save $ by using less cement.
I painted exterior of homes for a couple years and homes that used a stain rather than paint were by far easier to maintain and restrain over the home
that were painted. No chipping or sanding stain. just a quick wash and reapply.
Stain quality today is far better than in the past and color choices are almost equal to paint.
I can also imagine Shari's blasters in bright colors.
[Edited on 6-15-2012 by Russ]
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Thanks for that Ken, and everyone else. I'm hearing that the problem is really that NOTHING is going to be very effective in preventing deterioration
in that "damned near built on a pier" location and that the decision is less one of effectiveness of a sealer, than of the ultimate waste of money
trying to fool mother nature!
I've heard that under the best of conditions, concrete keeps getting harder for about the first 200 years. In my judgement the problem will be
inadequate sealant on the REBAR which will not get stronger for 200 years in a salt saturated environment!
There is a price to be paid for being able to sit at home and look down into a Pacific blowhole!!!
Given how often your are going to be able to keep those rooms rented Shari, I'll bet you can afford to replace some concrete every decade or so!
What an absolute "one of a kind" place!
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow
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Thanks for that vgabndo. I was sorry to hear that the vertical members contain a piece of rebar "down the middle". That's a shame. A longitudinal
bar in that application provides no benefit and presents the possibility for corrosion and splitting. If the bar can be seen at the ends of the
members, as I presume it can, THAT'S where a coating would be useful
carpe diem!
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