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J.P.
Super Nomad
Posts: 1673
Registered: 7-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
Mood: Easy Does It
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
But it sure makes you feel important when you say its a special road and only 4x4 high clearance need apply. |
It does, until you get a flat in your 4x4, and a local driving a Toyota Tercel stops and helps you change the tire.
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In my travels around Baja I see a few Tacomas and a whole lot of other stuff mostly old American made cars and trucks.
The point being there is a huge difference in whats needed to acess the out of the way places or whats needed to Soothe the EGO of the Week End
Warrior.
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bajacrawler
Junior Nomad
Posts: 41
Registered: 6-12-2006
Location: San Felipe/Sun City CA
Member Is Offline
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I agree that with David that the old Puertecitos road needs a 4wd and high clearance vechale. I made 2 trips down the old road some time between late
70s an early 80s in a Chevy Blazer with 4wd. First time I had 10.5 X 16.5 tires and the second I got new wheels and 12 X 15 tires. The new tires
seemed to help going up the real steep hills and also helped with the rough ride going over ever present rocks. The BFGs All Terrain had much softer
side walls and seem to help the ride. As I remember I was in 4wh low range low gear almost the entire road. This helped the braking going down the
steep rough hills and and crawling slowly up the next hill. I was probalaby going between 2 and maybe 5 miles per hour most of the trip.
On the first trip I saw the old Mexican Gentleman with the wheelbarrow, shovel and rake working on the road by the 3 sisters. I heard that Papa
Fernandez and Alphonsia also sent people to work on the road. In the old days both of them brought in supplies from San Felipe. After highway one was
paved the supplies came from Ensenada. From that time on the old road got road worse and worse. Speaking of the 3 sisters. On the first trip I had
trouble with the one with the 8" solid rock step at the top. I tried to craw up that very steep and badly ruted hill with deep holes where many people
just sat and spun wheels going no where 2 times and failed. I had to back down both times. I then tried the third time with he pedal to the metal held
on to the steering wheel for dear life. I managed not to go off the road bounced over the 8" rock step and was at the top. There many ld vehicles in
the canyon to the west of the road. My friend was at the bottom of the hill looking up shaking his head and his eyes as big as saucers.
I am back now had to take a shower and get cleaned up. The cleaning lady is coming today.
On the second trip we did not arrive at Alfonsina's until after dark. When we told the people in the Cantina we drove the road from San Felipe we
became the main topic of discussion that night. They all wanted to know about the old road. It seems to me I read somewhere this road was once
considered the worst road is Baja.
A little information on the dates I have used they are in the ballpark. I am 79 years old now and just dianosed with alheimers so my memory is not the
best. But you get the idea how bad the road was.
No one took a 5th wheel down that road.
Then they finally built the graded dirt road. They did not maintain it. It slowly deterioted till what it was when they started the pavement. The
various storms did a lot of damage to it.
My next trip was on that road. Not sure about the date. I used a GEO Tracker 4wd Hardtop. Left San Felipe 9 AM in morning and arrived back after dark.
We had a good lunch at alfonsina's. Used 4wd a few times wash out and sand just to keep the wheel from spinning. It was like a walk in the park.
Went again around the time the pavement stopped around El Huerfanito with our neighbors and their wifes from Villa Marina RV Park. We had our
motorhome parked in the front row on the bluff above the beach for 5 or 6 years. That was the life. I had lot of toys. A GEO Tracker, VW Dune Buggy
and a Honda 300 Quad. The ride to the end of the payment was great per the ladies. They did not like the next 20 some old miles. It really was not to
bad wash board and rocks. Some good sand roads along the sides. The first few of the dirt road graded by the road workers very good. Everyone had a
good lunch and conversation Alphonsia's. Returned to Villa Marina in the afternoon with no problems. Man that is some way to go to Gonzaga
Bay. Fun but not an adventure.
God willing I am going to San Felipe in May of this year. I have rented a condo in El Dorado Ranch with all those people that don't know what Baja is.
Right on the beach. I can sit on the patio and watch the Sea of Cortez. Maybe I can get in another trip to Gonzaga Bay like I was driving a passenger
car. I know thats no fun. OK thats enough.
Jack
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bbbait
Nomad
Posts: 211
Registered: 9-9-2003
Location: Blythe, Ca
Member Is Offline
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*Good story Jack, I would like to treat you to a cold one some time. Check your U2U.. Wayno
[Edited on 3/5/2013 by bbbait]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajacrawler
I agree that with David that the old Puertecitos road needs a 4wd and high clearance vechale. I made 2 trips down the old road some time between late
70s an early 80s in a Chevy Blazer with 4wd. First time I had 10.5 X 16.5 tires and the second I got new wheels and 12 X 15 tires. The new tires
seemed to help going up the real steep hills and also helped with the rough ride going over ever present rocks. The BFGs All Terrain had much softer
side walls and seem to help the ride. As I remember I was in 4wh low range low gear almost the entire road. This helped the braking going down the
steep rough hills and and crawling slowly up the next hill. I was probalaby going between 2 and maybe 5 miles per hour most of the trip.
On the first trip I saw the old Mexican Gentleman with the wheelbarrow, shovel and rake working on the road by the 3 sisters. I heard that Papa
Fernandez and Alphonsia also sent people to work on the road. In the old days both of them brought in supplies from San Felipe. After highway one was
paved the supplies came from Ensenada. From that time on the old road got road worse and worse. Speaking of the 3 sisters. On the first trip I had
trouble with the one with the 8" solid rock step at the top. I tried to craw up that very steep and badly ruted hill with deep holes where many people
just sat and spun wheels going no where 2 times and failed. I had to back down both times. I then tried the third time with he pedal to the metal held
on to the steering wheel for dear life. I managed not to go off the road bounced over the 8" rock step and was at the top. There many ld vehicles in
the canyon to the west of the road. My friend was at the bottom of the hill looking up shaking his head and his eyes as big as saucers.
I am back now had to take a shower and get cleaned up. The cleaning lady is coming today.
On the second trip we did not arrive at Alfonsina's until after dark. When we told the people in the Cantina we drove the road from San Felipe we
became the main topic of discussion that night. They all wanted to know about the old road. It seems to me I read somewhere this road was once
considered the worst road is Baja.
A little information on the dates I have used they are in the ballpark. I am 79 years old now and just dianosed with alheimers so my memory is not the
best. But you get the idea how bad the road was.
No one took a 5th wheel down that road.
Then they finally built the graded dirt road. They did not maintain it. It slowly deterioted till what it was when they started the pavement. The
various storms did a lot of damage to it.
My next trip was on that road. Not sure about the date. I used a GEO Tracker 4wd Hardtop. Left San Felipe 9 AM in morning and arrived back after dark.
We had a good lunch at alfonsina's. Used 4wd a few times wash out and sand just to keep the wheel from spinning. It was like a walk in the park.
Went again around the time the pavement stopped around El Huerfanito with our neighbors and their wifes from Villa Marina RV Park. We had our
motorhome parked in the front row on the bluff above the beach for 5 or 6 years. That was the life. I had lot of toys. A GEO Tracker, VW Dune Buggy
and a Honda 300 Quad. The ride to the end of the payment was great per the ladies. They did not like the next 20 some old miles. It really was not to
bad wash board and rocks. Some good sand roads along the sides. The first few of the dirt road graded by the road workers very good. Everyone had a
good lunch and conversation Alphonsia's. Returned to Villa Marina in the afternoon with no problems. Man that is some way to go to Gonzaga
Bay. Fun but not an adventure.
God willing I am going to San Felipe in May of this year. I have rented a condo in El Dorado Ranch with all those people that don't know what Baja is.
Right on the beach. I can sit on the patio and watch the Sea of Cortez. Maybe I can get in another trip to Gonzaga Bay like I was driving a passenger
car. I know thats no fun. OK thats enough.
Jack |
That is a great memory you have Jack... I hope my potential bout Alzheimer's is as 'good' as yours!
The road to Gonzaga (from San Felipe) was the first dirt road in Baja I traveled on, as a kid... and then I drove it once I got my license... two
Easter Breaks in a row ('74, '75) from south to north. It wasn't until my next trip south over it in 1979 did I find it had become 'dangerously'
rough/ steep. That was the last time over the old 'Gonzaga Grades' until the graded road was built in '86.
Cliff Cross' 1970 map was very well noted:
My dune buggy coming down a steep grade, 1974:
1975:
The roadbed was still pretty clear... but in '79 it was almost all broken up, loose rocks, miserable... but memorable!
1979:
I was pre-running the Baja 1000 in Nov. 1979, with my Subaru 4WD wagon... almost didn't make it, and my muffler and exhaust got ripped off by the
rocks... rolled into Alfonsina's after dark...
The 'good 'ol days of Baja travel!
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bajacrawler
Junior Nomad
Posts: 41
Registered: 6-12-2006
Location: San Felipe/Sun City CA
Member Is Offline
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Well David I also have cliff's book and many others I don't know what revision it is. All my Baja books are still packed away in a box from my move in
November last year. I guess my memory is not so good after all I thought there was 3 hills and the book has 6. Sorry about that. I remember seeing
your pictures and pages from the Cliff Cross book. I used it to find my way down highway 1 before it was paved. I made it somewhere south of the LA
Bay turnoff. I think it was close to Punta Prieta. I came a very wet an swampy area. I was driving a 2wd International Travelall. I didn't want to get
stuck with no other vehicles around. A little bit later a Mexican told me I was only a few miles from the new payment coming north. To bad I turned
around. I could probably have made it a long ways south in my alotted time.
Jack
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajacrawler
Well David I also have cliff's book and many others I don't know what revision it is. All my Baja books are still packed away in a box from my move in
November last year. I guess my memory is not so good after all I thought there was 3 hills and the book has 6. Sorry about that. I remember seeing
your pictures and pages from the Cliff Cross book. I used it to find my way down highway 1 before it was paved. I made it somewhere south of the LA
Bay turnoff. I think it was close to Punta Prieta. I came a very wet an swampy area. I was driving a 2wd International Travelall. I didn't want to get
stuck with no other vehicles around. A little bit later a Mexican told me I was only a few miles from the new payment coming north. To bad I turned
around. I could probably have made it a long ways south in my alotted time.
Jack |
Great memories Jack... A lot of gringos called the grades 'The Three Sisiters' or even 'Tres Marias'... Maybe for the worst of the worst? I remember
nearly 20 miles of bad stuff from Puertecitos to El Huerfanito... I wasn't counting how many grades! 
Some pavement sections were as far north as Punta Prieta by July of 1973... paved then unpaved sections as they built the highway that year north from
Guerrero Negro... Southbound, it ended near El Progreso, about 40 miles from El Rosario (July, 1873).
Thank you for your posts on Nomad!
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2729
Registered: 5-10-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
I heard that Coco has applied for an Oxxo franchise 
I can see it now.....CocoOxxo........
Beercans strung along the highway for miles.....
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Yep. The end of another beautiful place.
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LaTijereta
Super Nomad
Posts: 1192
Registered: 8-27-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Two questions..
What is the travel time from the pavement end to San Felpie and travel time from San Felpie to the Tecate Crossing, via the Mexicalli "by pass" route?
This route is starting to look like a new adventure north when I leave Loreto...
Democracy is like two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin (1759)
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Approx. 2 hours to San Felipe from end of pavement and approx. 3.5 hours to Tecate... depends on the military inspections.
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freediverbrian
Senior Nomad
Posts: 620
Registered: 2-24-2007
Location: Papas Gonzaga Bay
Member Is Offline
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David , when I was a kid going down to gonzaga in the late 60's and 70's there was a guy I think his name was Mateo, kind of a hermit who would work
on the road by himself with pick and shovel and put out a jar for donations for his work . He would work on the Buick grade and black mountain area I
remember us leaving money and Food by his tools . Do you know any of this story ?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by freediverbrian
David , when I was a kid going down to gonzaga in the late 60's and 70's there was a guy I think his name was Mateo, kind of a hermit who would work
on the road by himself with pick and shovel and put out a jar for donations for his work . He would work on the Buick grade and black mountain area I
remember us leaving money and Food by his tools . Do you know any of this story ? |
Hi Brian, I think you and I our about the same age, and share great memories, yes? The 'Gonzaga Grades' are what my folks called the road south of
Puertecitos... so narrow and steep, with crosses along the side marking were lives were lost, and wrecks in the canyon below! I remember my mom and I
getting out to walk part of one, while my brave dad piloted the Wagoneer in low range, 4WD!
Do you remember this guy?...
Anyway, here is the Gonzaga Road Crew of the 1960's... (we only saw the wheel barrel with a donation request sign, and what looked like an unused new
shovel and pick! Photo from Cliff Cross Baja Guide of 1970.
[Edited on 3-15-2013 by David K]
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freediverbrian
Senior Nomad
Posts: 620
Registered: 2-24-2007
Location: Papas Gonzaga Bay
Member Is Offline
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Yes ,great memories I too walk the grades with my mom and sister while my dad drove the the truck up the grades. 8 hours from San fielpie to gonzaga
. We called the Buick grade because of the rusted old Buick at the bottom of the canyon.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by freediverbrian
Yes ,great memories I too walk the grades with my mom and sister while my dad drove the the truck up the grades. 8 hours from San fielpie to gonzaga
. We called the Buick grade because of the rusted old Buick at the bottom of the canyon. |
That is great!
Do you remember a dog at Alfonsina's that did tricks (or ??). My parents often talked about that dog after two trips there in 1965. The next time I
was at Alfonsina's was when we drove to Bahia de los Angeles in 1967.
Here is a photo of me on that trip, at Calamajue Canyon (the gold mill site).. July, 1967, I was two months shy of 10 and yes I liked army surplus
stuff:
[Edited on 3-15-2013 by David K]
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freediverbrian
Senior Nomad
Posts: 620
Registered: 2-24-2007
Location: Papas Gonzaga Bay
Member Is Offline
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Not at alofonisas but at papa's there were two big labs that would work together at low tide and drive and herd fish up in shallow water and grab
and eat them. The old story was about a three leg dog that got his leg cut off by chasing a panga and getting cought in the prop .
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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My parents went to Papa's first, one their maiden voyage with the new Wagoneer (I wasn't on that trip)... they then explored and saw the beautiful
beach at Alfonsina's... They wanted to return ASAP, and I got to go that second trip, so we set up camp using a tent trailer on the beach a mile or so
down from Alfonsina's, which was not too big in 1965!
The funny thing is, unknown to my parents on that first trip, they were filmed by a movie crew that flew into Papa's to do a movie about hunting in
North America, from Baja north to Alaska. The movie didn't appear in theaters until about 1971 or 2... called 'The American Adventure' (or something
like that). They came to Gonzaga Bay to hunt bighorn sheep, and that was the first animal hunted in the film. The last was a giant polar bear... yah,
that's all really not PC anymore, but 50 years ago was different.
Anyway, my mom and I went to see the movie (my dad was working in L.A.) and imagine the shock when, on the big screen, the camera zeros in on a white
Jeep Wagoneer approaching Papa Fernandez' camp, and with no narration during the 30 seconds or so spot, shows my dad getting out to look around after
coming to a stop, then he looks into the Jeep where you see my mom still inside, to talk to her. Then a new scene begins... We called my dad to
surprise him with the news the next day... We think the deal was seeing a (new) vehicle or any vehicle was so rare there, in '65, it deserved an
appearance??? Airstrips were at both Papa's and Alfonsina's back then, as flying in was how 90% of visitors got to Gonzaga for many years.
I have been unable to locate that movie to see it again... PETA must have destroyed all copies?
My dad said he did recall the film crew being at Papa's but had no idea they were filmed when they first arrived.
Fun times!
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