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bajamary1952
Nomad
Posts: 204
Registered: 9-29-2016
Location: Ensenada
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IMO if the majority of expats/Americans/Canadians would attempt to integrate a little more into the local culture they would find people here more
receptive. I have had NO problems here but I do speak decent Spanish and attempt to integrate into my surroundings unlike the majority of expats who
think they are still in the U.S./Canada.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Quote: Originally posted by bajamary1952  | | IMO if the majority of expats/Americans/Canadians would attempt to integrate a little more into the local culture they would find people here more
receptive. I have had NO problems here but I do speak decent Spanish and attempt to integrate into my surroundings unlike the majority of expats who
think they are still in the U.S./Canada. |
This may be contrary to studied opinions. If in fact Mexicans dislike North Americans, [and there's evidence to believe some do] it's because of
what are....not who we are as individuals.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bubba | | Quote: Originally posted by chuckie | | Canadians in Mexico seem to spend a lot of time telling citizens of two countries that they cant VOTE in how to run those counrties. Canada is a
mess...It would seem as if they should devote their energies to their own problems..OR, maybe they have given up? |
Simply put, some of them want the best of two worlds without paying anything... I've spent quite a bit of time in both Baja and Canada, it's a funny
game they play..
[Edited on 2-8-2017 by Bubba] |
So what? Sense of entitlement? Best of all worlds sounds good. Gotta pay something for that? Think not. Name of the game: win as
much as you can. Sounds like your Prez.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
First, and only impressions can at times be unforgiving. They're a rite of passage here.
No harm meant....no harm done. |
I have to agree with Dennis again, there is definitely a rite of passage on "Baja Nomad' that many veteran posters put some newbies through.
Many Nomad members have a weird sense of humor, and the attacks usually attacks come in a passive-aggressive way, if they don't like what you're
saying, or if they're just playing.
I still remember my first days here, I was attacked by Dennis, who I already had a history with, but the Goat, and this ultra conservative teacher,
never stopped trying to push my buttons, as well as a few others.
There is also friendly banter on this Baja forum, but I would say this site is not about getting together and singing " kumbaya," as some here in the
thread seem to suggest, it will never happen.
I disagree with Dennis, when he claims in fact Mexicans dislike North Americans, without qualifying his posts, and making it sound like all Mexicans
dislike North Americans.
He might have got away with his post, if he said, some Mexicans dislike North Americans, but then Dennis doubles down, and says there is some
evidence of this hatred towards North Americans, without supporting his wild allegations.
It's probably just " transference" on Dennis' part, where he dislikes Mexicans, and he is just turning it around.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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How many times have I presented this point: when Ernesto Zedillo was minister of education, prior to his term as president, he brought out a series
of public school text books that presented a USA/MEX history portraying the USA in a much more forgiving manner than the prior, and current way the
government wants their public to know us.
Their reasoning.....we, the USA, offer a scapegoat for the problems in Mexico that are a direct effect of their own mismanagement.
Zedillo was overruled and the books went to the furnace.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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I've been trying to stay out of these type of debates here on Nomad.
1st off welcome to FelizCanadian. Sorry you got turned off. Please don't runaway.
I have often wondered of the deep feelings of the native Baja Californians regarding vistors and expats.
I have to think some are welcoming but that some might be resentful of our presence there. I suppose it depends on whether they derive a direct
benefit or not.
Having been a poor person living in a rich place I have felt resentment towards the elites. I live in Newport Beach, Ca. and was lucky enough to live
oceanfront for over 10 years. I wasn't exactly poor but it's relative.
That is where I came up with my famous saying " You can't make the beach better just more expensive".
So when money comes in it just starts driving up the price of normal things and some the basics of life become a luxury. And soon things start getting
walled off and access denied.
Think SoCal coast and the elites trying to block off (illegally) access to the beach.
Now think of us viewed as the elites trying to block off the locals to the things they need by driving up the costs of everything. Sure it's cheap for
us but now almost unobtainable to the average local.
I survived in Newport by not caring or even acknowledging the rich. I enjoyed seeing some of the pretty boats and cars but never envied the rich.
I only cared about the sand the sun and the surf. The richest guy in Newport couldn't enjoy those things anymore than I could. I 'd say my enjoyment
was better because it was more pure. And much cheaper.
The dynamic there and everywhere has changed. I don't think I could afford to live in Newport anymore. And if I could I 'm not sure it would be worth
it. So the elites have driven me out but driving the price up so far that only other elites can or are willing to afford it.
And if I didn't have Baja I would be very disappointed. I can find places that the elites don't care about... yet.
I can only imagine that the Baja natives view me as I do the elites of Newport Beach.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
How many times have I presented this point: when Ernesto Zedillo was minister of education, prior to his term as president, he brought out a series
of public school text books that presented a USA/MEX history portraying the USA in a much more forgiving manner than the prior, and current way the
government wants their public to know us.
Their reasoning.....we, the USA, offer a scapegoat for the problems in Mexico that are a direct effect of their own mismanagement.
Zedillo was overruled and the books went to the furnace.
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I guess that settles it. All Mexicans hate North Americans, because they all pushed back against Zedillo's text books he was pushing that put the USA
in a more favorable light, and I noticed that you Dennis, repeated this same thing often on "BN" without any links to back up your words.
Some in Mexico would disagree with you Dennis. It wasn't only about the text books about the USA. What many Mexican's were outraged about is the new
text books, was the revision of Mexico's history, so it wasn't just the attitudes towards the US or North Americans. It was mostly about the
re-writing Mexico history in those new school text books
The concerns of the new thinking was the old text books, made Mexico's leaders, and others in Mexico history as either heroes or villains, and the
new text books took a more forgiving manner towards just about everyone, not just Americans.
Most likely the outrage was like Texas school text books that white wash the history of slavery, like it never happened.
According to this article below, they talk about the US on page 284, if you don't want to read the whole thing. Some Mexican's felt that because of
NAFTA, and the upcoming elections in the US, that the Mexican government was pandering to US opinion and undermining traditional Mexican nationalism,
but again that was only a small part of the outrage about the new text books.
https://is.cuni.cz/studium/predmety/index.php?do=download&am...
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Bubba
Senior Nomad
Posts: 957
Registered: 2-17-2009
Location: Pismo Beach, Ca.
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by Bubba | | Quote: Originally posted by chuckie | | Canadians in Mexico seem to spend a lot of time telling citizens of two countries that they cant VOTE in how to run those counrties. Canada is a
mess...It would seem as if they should devote their energies to their own problems..OR, maybe they have given up? |
Simply put, some of them want the best of two worlds without paying anything... I've spent quite a bit of time in both Baja and Canada, it's a funny
game they play..
[Edited on 2-8-2017 by Bubba] |
So what? Sense of entitlement? Best of all worlds sounds good. Gotta pay something for that? Think not. Name of the game: win as
much as you can. Sounds like your Prez. |
If you live in this country he's your President also... Get used to it...
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Ohhh...that's just Mr. Lee....jarhead without a country. Pay no nevermind to his wishy-washy ways and don't let him join you in a foxhole without
first shooting him.
[Edited on 2-8-2017 by DENNIS]
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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imlost
Nomad
Posts: 218
Registered: 3-31-2015
Location: PNW & East Cape
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by sancho |
While this may not be the appropriate forum for this topic, there
are some here who feel passionate, their feelings
get the best of them. To call this expression 'crap' is
woefully simplistic. Yes it is worth every bit, it is exactly
that uncaring attitude that got us into this chaotic mess.
While I like a Baja sunrise as much as much as anyone
who is fortunate to witness them, I'm not going to bury my
head in the sand
[Edited on 2-8-2017 by sancho] |
Sancho, Thanks for your opinion, though I think you may have missed my point.
I'm not for a second, suggesting that people shouldn't be passionate about what they believe in, nor should they be passive about the the current
political climate. However, if delivery of that passion requires abusing or attempting to degrade others to get your point across - that, my friend,
is crap.
Regarding personal political viewpoint: I still doubt that many people who frequently post their viewpoints here, actually care about the viewpoints
of others. It seems more like pontification than dialogue, to me. It's also unfortunate that a lot of the potentially meaningful conversations degrade
to matches of insult-flinging.
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bajabuddha
Banned
Posts: 4024
Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
Ohhh...that's just Mr. Lee....jarhead without a country. Pay no nevermind to his wishy-washy ways and don't let him join you in a foxhole without
first shooting him.
[Edited on 2-8-2017 by DENNIS] |
I was going to stay out of this mess, but this time dennis, you've gone way over the line, like your Fuhrur did with McCain. What ever happened to
"The Band of Warriors"? I would never vote for him as POTUS (McCain) because even though he is a true war hero, he has PTSD and is unstable and a
potential detriment highlighted by his choice as VP (Palin)..... however, what tRump did to him is unconscionable. He was shot down behind enemy
lines, and unlike Berghdal, didn't just 'walk off his post', and was interned and tortured repetitively for several years. He still can't raise his
arms above his shoulders.
Lee served proudly, probably more than I. For you to say "and don't let him join you in a foxhole without first shooting him''.. is way out of line,
over the top, and you owe him a true apology. You have now dis-earned my respect as a Veteran, and as a true grunt, glad you never had MY back. Nor
will you. Lee was at Khe San... wtf did you do? REMF? I doubt you've ever been in a foxhole, let alone have to dig one under fire.
Hope you're comfortable living with so much hate inside.
[Edited on 2-9-2017 by bajabuddha]
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Can't spend time giving you an answer right now, a-hole. I'm busy taking my psych meds for my 100% service connected disability. When I'm done, Ill
give you specific instructions on where and how far up to shove it.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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bajabuddha
Banned
Posts: 4024
Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
Can't spend time giving you an answer right now, a-hole. I'm busy taking my psych meds for my 100% service connected disability. When I'm done, Ill
give you specific instructions on where and how far up to shove it. |
Well, then we're even, aren't we, a-hole??? I knew it was a waste of time and ergonomics. I'll send you a free tube of KY.
BTW, you still owe Lee an honest apology; not me though, I deserve all of your black vitriolic.
[Edited on 2-9-2017 by bajabuddha]
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1593
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
Member Is Offline
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Great attitude fishbuck, and very well stated.
| Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck | I've been trying to stay out of these type of debates here on Nomad.
1st off welcome to FelizCanadian. Sorry you got turned off. Please don't runaway.
I have often wondered of the deep feelings of the native Baja Californians regarding vistors and expats.
I have to think some are welcoming but that some might be resentful of our presence there. I suppose it depends on whether they derive a direct
benefit or not.
Having been a poor person living in a rich place I have felt resentment towards the elites. I live in Newport Beach, Ca. and was lucky enough to live
oceanfront for over 10 years. I wasn't exactly poor but it's relative.
That is where I came up with my famous saying " You can't make the beach better just more expensive".
So when money comes in it just starts driving up the price of normal things and some the basics of life become a luxury. And soon things start getting
walled off and access denied.
Think SoCal coast and the elites trying to block off (illegally) access to the beach.
Now think of us viewed as the elites trying to block off the locals to the things they need by driving up the costs of everything. Sure it's cheap for
us but now almost unobtainable to the average local.
I survived in Newport by not caring or even acknowledging the rich. I enjoyed seeing some of the pretty boats and cars but never envied the rich.
I only cared about the sand the sun and the surf. The richest guy in Newport couldn't enjoy those things anymore than I could. I 'd say my enjoyment
was better because it was more pure. And much cheaper.
The dynamic there and everywhere has changed. I don't think I could afford to live in Newport anymore. And if I could I 'm not sure it would be worth
it. So the elites have driven me out but driving the price up so far that only other elites can or are willing to afford it.
And if I didn't have Baja I would be very disappointed. I can find places that the elites don't care about... yet.
I can only imagine that the Baja natives view me as I do the elites of Newport Beach.
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lencho
Junior Nomad
Posts: 65
Registered: 1-16-2005
Location: Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de EU
Member Is Offline
Mood: Somnoliento
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Hey, *I* support them! Beat the heck out of corncobs! 
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is, by how stupid he thinks I
am."
"...they were careful of their demeanor that they not be thought to have opinions on what they heard for like most men skilled at their work they
were scornful of any least suggestion of knowing anything not learned at first hand."
Cormac McCarthy, All the Pretty Horses
"Be kind, be patient, help others." -- Isabel Allende
"My gas stove identifies as electric." Anonymous
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lencho
Junior Nomad
Posts: 65
Registered: 1-16-2005
Location: Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de EU
Member Is Offline
Mood: Somnoliento
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS | | If in fact Mexicans dislike North Americans, [and there's evidence to believe some do] it's because of what are....not who we are as individuals.
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I believe there are more than we might think (who dislike Gringos), but it takes about 3 seconds to manifest oneself as a fellow human who happens to
have been born north of the border. Spanish *really* helps...
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is, by how stupid he thinks I
am."
"...they were careful of their demeanor that they not be thought to have opinions on what they heard for like most men skilled at their work they
were scornful of any least suggestion of knowing anything not learned at first hand."
Cormac McCarthy, All the Pretty Horses
"Be kind, be patient, help others." -- Isabel Allende
"My gas stove identifies as electric." Anonymous
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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I owe Lee less than nothing.
It's "Once a Marine, always a Marine" Lee who owes his commander in chief an apology.
[Edited on 2-9-2017 by DENNIS]
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
This may be contrary to studied opinions. If in fact Mexicans dislike North Americans, [and there's evidence to believe some do] it's because of
what are....not who we are as individuals. |
Never discount that a substantial portion of a population with simply being angry at their situation in life, and be willing to blame others (who are
completely blameless) for their misfortune.
N-zi Germany, Vichy France, Russian pogroms of the early 20th Century, Reconstruction in the South, comes to mind.
Even the willingness to vote for The Donald can be attributed to this. The US has a lot of angry people right now. For the first time in our history,
we have successive generations who are less wealthy than their parents. Left or Right, Republican or Democrat. That's not supposed to happen in the
US. That has NEVER happened in the US. Our culture apparently demands an ever-increasing upward spiral of wealth. 
Our leadership, at the behest of corporations (IMO) have gotten wealthy with a program of shipping good paying jobs in the US overseas, in exchange
for cheap, crappy overseas products.
In the meantime, we print bucket loads of money, make lending historically cheap...........and personal income still stagnates. The VELOCITY of the
money (how fast it changes hands and creates new wealth) isn't increasing as corporations sit on piles of cash and buy back their own stock to
artificially inflate the value of stock their management team holds.
Certainly exorbitant union demands had a part in this, too, over the years.
Mexicans probably feel the same way, after seeing their wealth shrink in the face of gasolinazos and generous pay/benefit packages for
teachers unions, Pemex union, public utility unions. What they read about Trump stokes this anger, especially his demand that they pay for the wall.
So, some of that anger has a chance of getting transferred to gringos, especially Americans (when they can tell us from Canadians). But, so far, I
havent seen it.
I did have a conversation with the workers building a WALL on my lot, yesterday. (I am paying for the wall, not them!). I'm replacing my original
cyclone fencing that blew down in Hurricane Newton. An American building a wall, right now, does make for some good jokes at parties and among the
workers, of course..........
Anyway, they seemed to have no anger for Americans; only for The Donald. And it's not really anger. They're, like, incredulous. They knew all about
his claims to make Mexico pay for The Wall. But they look around themselves and see how poor Mexico is and know that Mexico can't afford to pay for
reliable water or good schools, much less The Wall.
Actually, I think Mexico COULD pay for all of that. But corrupt leadership and greedy corporations get in the way. Sound familiar?
[Edited on 2-9-2017 by Hook]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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My contention from the beginning stands today: a brick and mortar wall was never intended by anybody. All smoke 'n mirrors.
However, militarization in a limited fashion will be the compromise. That wall is already paid for, and in the end it will be a magnanimous gesture
to relieve Mexico of the financial burden.
I believe there is a treaty in place presently that prohibits militarization, but ratifying that will be part of the negotiations.
.
[Edited on 2-9-2017 by DENNIS]
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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mulegemichael
Super Nomad
Posts: 2310
Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: up on step
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I had my 70th birthday party this past week at a bar owned by mexicans, we had a mexican beatles band playing, half the folks attending were local
mexicans, my wife danced with mexicans all night long and i'm as gringoized as they get...lots of smiling faces and hugs...i'm not sure where all this
anger is coming from???...sheesh!
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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