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Hook
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Quote: Originally posted by motoged  | Hook,
Yes, can't argue or disagree with much of what you said....
but....proportionally, we are taking a fair share...
My real gripe in all of this is that I thought the USA was smarter than allowing somebody like Trump to become its president....he simply represents
values, morals, and ideologies I find repugnant.
The conservative Quebec member of parliament just resigned from his party affiliation and wants to set up his own farther right party...
Sure, Canada has its share of racist fearful folks....all coming from immigrant stock....especially fearful and somehow threatened by seeing more
folks of colour in our communities....
I hold some "conservative" values, but tend to try to find compassion in the mix.
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I'm the same way, Ged. I hold some conservative values, too.
Tough times for moderates like us. The radical right and left have taken over the two major parties in the US. And the Dems think running farther left
and keeping Pelosi is the answer? What fools!!
The DNC is the real problem. They fund quashing any moderate Dems. At least they have in the past.
On the wall issue, I think many Canadians outside of Quebec wouldn't mind seeing a wall either. Along the western border of Quebec! 
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SFandH
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And violence too. There are certainly legitimate and lawful requests for asylum being made by Central Americans making it to the border.
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DaliDali
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I can understand an "ideology" disagreement with Trump....that's cool.
But what sticks in my craw about the morals and values side of it is....
No one batted an eye when JFK was shanking Marilyn Monroe while married to Jackie.
No one (liberal side) gave it a second thought when Teddy Kennedy was boinking Mary Jo Kopechne and then went on to drive her off into a river while
stone drunk and let her die without an attempt to save her....
And then went off to a bar to drown out the sorrows.
And gasp......even went on to become the "Lion of the Senate"...held in high esteem by his peers.
Willie Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick.
Kathleen Wiley accused him of groping her.
Willie flipped his schlong out for Paula Jones.
Extramarital affairs with Gennifer Flowers.
And the infamous Lincoln bedroom tryst with Monika.
Liberals at the time never batted an eye.....
Willie even went on to get impeached in a GOP lead House after he lied about the whole thing and tried to square it all up with...."I did not have
sixxual relations with that woman"
The Demos in charge of the Senate gave him a pass and would not convict.
They cheered him on..."It was consensual" "It's what adults do"
Again.....the Demos cheered and Willie went on to win the next election in a landslide.
No liberals were concerned when John Edwards (D) pres candidate was out hopping the Caribbean, shanking a woman not his wife.
Even Hillary, in the early years, felt that a past Grand Wizard of the KKK, Robert Byrd (D) VA was her mentor.
During the Hillary campaign, charges of sexual misconduct on Bill Clinton's part resurfaced during the 2016 presidential campaign of his wife, Hillary
Clinton. When a lewd recording discussing the ability to grope women when in power, was released during the campaign, Bill Clinton's accusers,
Broaddrick, Willey, and Jones reemerged as critics of Hillary Clinton, accusing her of enabling her husband's alleged sexual assaults on them. They
appeared as guests at the second 2016 presidential debate and referenced Bill Clinton in pre-debate statements.
Demos never batted an eye.
Disparage the ideologies ok fine...
But to call him out on morals and values is over the top hypocrisy.
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
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DaliDali
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
And violence too. There are certainly legitimate and lawful requests for asylum being made by Central Americans making it to the border.
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Yes lawful requests.....for those who in fact, were escaping for those reasons.
Would you happen to know how many of the asylum seekers went through the proper channel (POE) to make a claim of asylum?
Do you happen to know how many went east from Tijuana and were either smuggled across by their guides or jumped the fence?
As best and I can understand it, and I kept close track of the goings on there, part of the problem was the US officers could not readily determine
who was a the real parent or guardian, from just a a person who held hands with an unaccompanied minor child. Which was reported to be more than just
a few minors.
Is that the way you understand it?
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
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Timinator
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | I can understand an "ideology" disagreement with Trump....that's cool.
But what sticks in my craw about the morals and values side of it is....
No one batted an eye when JFK was shanking Marilyn Monroe while married to Jackie.
No one (liberal side) gave it a second thought when Teddy Kennedy was boinking Mary Jo Kopechne and then went on to drive her off into a river while
stone drunk and let her die without an attempt to save her....
And then went off to a bar to drown out the sorrows.
And gasp......even went on to become the "Lion of the Senate"...held in high esteem by his peers.
Willie Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick.
Kathleen Wiley accused him of groping her.
Willie flipped his schlong out for Paula Jones.
Extramarital affairs with Gennifer Flowers.
And the infamous Lincoln bedroom tryst with Monika.
Liberals at the time never batted an eye.....
Willie even went on to get impeached in a GOP lead House after he lied about the whole thing and tried to square it all up with...."I did not have
sixxual relations with that woman"
The Demos in charge of the Senate gave him a pass and would not convict.
They cheered him on..."It was consensual" "It's what adults do"
Again.....the Demos cheered and Willie went on to win the next election in a landslide.
No liberals were concerned when John Edwards (D) pres candidate was out hopping the Caribbean, shanking a woman not his wife.
Even Hillary, in the early years, felt that a past Grand Wizard of the KKK, Robert Byrd (D) VA was her mentor.
During the Hillary campaign, charges of sexual misconduct on Bill Clinton's part resurfaced during the 2016 presidential campaign of his wife, Hillary
Clinton. When a lewd recording discussing the ability to grope women when in power, was released during the campaign, Bill Clinton's accusers,
Broaddrick, Willey, and Jones reemerged as critics of Hillary Clinton, accusing her of enabling her husband's alleged sexual assaults on them. They
appeared as guests at the second 2016 presidential debate and referenced Bill Clinton in pre-debate statements.
Demos never batted an eye.
Disparage the ideologies ok fine...
But to call him out on morals and values is over the top hypocrisy.
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali] |
Yep, the hypocrisy runs deep with Dim's, but that's the problem with them/DNC in American; they don't care about the hypocrisy or the criminality as
long as it furthers their agenda. They'll let every freedom we have be absorbed back into big government if they get more power and control. Despite
almost across the board failures of every one of their policies either not doing what it's supposed to, or costing us more instead of less, the Dim
voters don't care. Just fascinating.
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by Timinator | | Despite almost across the board failures of every one of their policies either not doing what it's supposed to, or costing us more instead of less.
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Can you come up with an alternative to Social Security, to deal with people that have no retirement savings? What do you do about them, let them die?
How do you plan to deal with poor people? How? Let them die too. There will always be poor people as long as we have a market economy, so figure
out and tell me how you plan to deal with it. Anything?
Can you come up with an alternative to Medicare, that doesn't force sick elderly people to go broke paying insurance premiums? Or families that go
bankrupt due to medical expenses? How about any healthcare plan from the right? All you geniuses and not a single workable plan. Great.
Can you come up with a plan to deal with our growing national deficit? Republicans just put $1.5 trillion on the credit card, with nothing for
infrastructure, education, healthcare. Just debt for debt's sake. Maybe boost the stock market with stock buybacks. Poof, it's gone.
I hear your critcism of Dem policies, but what reasonable policies do you have to replace them? I have yet to hear you critics come up with
anything. Just like the Republicans and healthcare, nothing, nada, squat, zilch.
Let's hear an intelligent, well reasoned response, not lefty bashing, okay? I'm sure someone has some ideas, right? Or, just criticism and
bitterness?
Taking care of our own is pennies compared to the military misadventures we seem to pee trillions of dollars away on. What about some of that money,
any of that a waste?
It's a lot easier to throw bricks than build a house. Whattayagot? Besides lefty bashing.
I would think that most of the New Deal infrastructure projects worked out resonably well. Although some BOR and COE projects were political
boondoggles. Corporate farms did fantastic either way. At least for you sodbusters in the Central Valley.
John
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by John Harper]
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Hook
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If Trump was so determined to lock Hillary up...........he should have hired her.
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DaliDali
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Harper | | Quote: Originally posted by Timinator | | Despite almost across the board failures of every one of their policies either not doing what it's supposed to, or costing us more instead of less.
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Can you come up with an alternative to Social Security, to deal with people that have no retirement savings? What do you do about them, let them die?
How do you plan to deal with poor people? How? Let them die too. There will always be poor people as long as we have a market economy, so figure
out and tell me how you plan to deal with it. Anything?
Can you come up with an alternative to Medicare, that doesn't force sick elderly people to go broke paying insurance premiums? Or families that go
bankrupt due to medical expenses? How about any healthcare plan from the right? All you geniuses and not a single workable plan. Great.
Can you come up with a plan to deal with our growing national deficit?
I hear your critcism of Dem policies, but what reasonable policies do you have to replace them? I have yet to hear you critics come up with
anything. Just like the Republicans and healthcare, nothing, nada, squat, zilch.
Let's hear an intelligent, well reasoned response, not lefty bashing, okay? I'm sure someone has some ideas, right? Or, just criticism and
bitterness?
It's a lot easier to throw bricks than build a house. Whattayagot?
John
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by John Harper] |
People have choices along the road to make.
Some choose a life of easy, taking from others as a way of life and career and some put the energies in listening to their parents, pay attention in
school, get a part time job, pay your way through college if desired and strive to get a job that will support them and a family.
Those who made the wrong choices in their youth and end up with no savings and a employment record short on credits.Those with criminal records, x
cons and pimps will certainly come up short in the golden years.
Being young and breaking windows, smashing cars and beating people to a bloody pulp is not the way to make it...and all supported by some radical left
benefactor and some radical anarchists.
If young people can pay attention, they would know that to succeed in life, they have to put in the blood sweat and tears and EARN their money.
A lifestyle of sucking other people's money who earned it is not a smart idea.
And there are millions of these people who make a career out of bilking you out of your earned money.
Bill Clinton had a great idea....."work for welfare" until some politician decided that was harsh on people
And that idea did work....the welfare rolls dropped significantly
NO ONE leaves them to die.....there are agencies that provide care, along with charitable organizations and the Fed program SSI.......for the down and
out.
Leave to die is a scare tactic propagated by the left.
Pushing granny off the cliff was roundly beaten up as nonsense.
Healthcare is an enigma, very costly and wrought with fraud and greedy people.
Yet there is the Federal plan of Medicaid... a plan originally conceived to provide for the healthcare of women and children at risk.
The agencies who administer the Medicaid program are busting doctors, hospitals, individuals and other fraudsters as fast as they can.
I say step it up.....what say you?
That Medicaid got tweaked so bad, it's now available to even able bodied, working age adults and crack hoes get their heroin abscesses swabbed out for
FREE in an ER......and YOU pay for it.
It's not an easy solution all the way around.
I don't know about you, but it galls me to no end to be carrying some of the freight for a person who can, but won't work.
For those who can't work due to age or disability, I am all in for taking care of them.....especially children.
But by gawd.....if you can and won't work.....I have zero sympathy for them
The debt......big problem....coming sooner than we may think.
The government spends more money that in takes in. It's that easy.
Either take in more money or back off the spending. Some make the case just take other people's money, who have lots of it, and fund the US
Treasury.....up to 50% and some want to go back to 95%.
Others make the case to increase the amount of people working, who pay more in income taxes, which goes to the US Treasury.
A government should be frugal in the discretionary spending.
I want my representative to step on every dime before he/she goes off and hands it out.
Every year a paper comes out about all the pork barrel projects that waste a ton of money.....yet it keeps going on and on.
No party has a lock on the pork.....they all do it..
But why, we as voters, allow this to go on?
That's my two pesos in a nutshell......
In short, it's all about the choices one has to make, some choose the right path and some don't.
I would like to hear about your ideas on how to do all this without going massively more in the red.
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DaliDali
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You know Hook......the big hubbub about the collusion thing is Donnie Jr and some pals met with some Ruskie gal in the pretext of getting the dirt on
Hillary.
Best I can figure out, there was no dirt to be had. It was about Ruskie child adoptions....it was over soon after the meeting started because of being
duped from the get go and no dirt. Shame on Junior.
Junior said he did not tell his dad beforehand about the meeting.
Senior said he didn't know about the meeting beforehand and no one has proven that to be a lie.....up to now anyway.
No money exchanged hands and no "dossier" was concocted as a result of that meeting, nor was any clandestine dirt used against Hillary.
On the other hand, Hillary and the DNC paid Fusion GPS for some oppo research.
That "oppo research" morphed into hiring a former British spy, full on Trump hater by the way, to end up counseling with a spy pal of his in Russia.
They both together, penned the now famous "dossier"...which was used as the primary evidence that supported the FISA warrant against Carter Page. Very
unfortunate that the FBI never told the issuing judge how they came across the "dossier" and if it was a paid product of the opposing presidential
candidate.
The rest is history and my main beef is.....how is Donnie Jr meeting with a Ruskie woman, about getting dirt on Hillary, any different than Hillary
paying money for the dirt on Trump, and using foreign spies as the source?
There is a paper trail with the Hillary payment, a trail of foreign spies and and a trail of using that "dossier", in what I believe is the
"insurance" Peter Strzok was referring to with his text messages to Lisa, as probable cause to issue the FISA warrant.
And no paper trail of the meeting with the Ruskie dirt provider in Trump Towers.
The Hillary campaign tried to cleverly mask the using of foreign spies, along with paying them, as "oppo research"
I suppose one could believe that or not....seems a stretch, at least to me, based on the people involved.
I was pretty sure it's against the law for a foreign person or entity to interfere with a US election. Wish I could site that statute for you Hook,
it's tough to dig out.
I think it's pretty clear that Hillary used the resources of foreign nationals, paid for those resources, and with the clear intent of changing the
outcome of that last election in her favor by the "dirt" gleaned from the "dossier"
Everyone thought Hillary was a shoe in and none of this would ever come to light......or at least that is theory anyway.
She lost.....now it's out....high intrigue follows.
Trumps pals got caught up in it all.....and they are paying that price.
Yet not one of them, at least up to now, has directly implicated Trump as to pulling some criminal act. Dicey for sure.
And the standards for a criminal conviction are just not there.
So far, Trump is just guilty of being named Donald Trump.
Criminal proof only counts in a court of law.
It's now in the court of public opinion as to his wrongdoings.
Be very careful about impeachment stuff.....Clinton was impeached and the GOP not only got beaten badly in the following Congressional elections, but
Clinton won reelection in a landslide.
My takeaway from that is the public is not all that keen to impeach a President and will punish those who brought it forward.
I would strongly suggest for the Demo party to run up a better candidate, than another Hillary clone and give it another go.
What say you Mr Hook?
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | | Quote: Originally posted by John Harper | | Quote: Originally posted by Timinator | | Despite almost across the board failures of every one of their policies either not doing what it's supposed to, or costing us more instead of less.
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Can you come up with an alternative to Social Security, to deal with people that have no retirement savings? What do you do about them, let them die?
How do you plan to deal with poor people? How? Let them die too. There will always be poor people as long as we have a market economy, so figure
out and tell me how you plan to deal with it. Anything?
Can you come up with an alternative to Medicare, that doesn't force sick elderly people to go broke paying insurance premiums? Or families that go
bankrupt due to medical expenses? How about any healthcare plan from the right? All you geniuses and not a single workable plan. Great.
Can you come up with a plan to deal with our growing national deficit?
I hear your critcism of Dem policies, but what reasonable policies do you have to replace them? I have yet to hear you critics come up with
anything. Just like the Republicans and healthcare, nothing, nada, squat, zilch.
Let's hear an intelligent, well reasoned response, not lefty bashing, okay? I'm sure someone has some ideas, right? Or, just criticism and
bitterness?
It's a lot easier to throw bricks than build a house. Whattayagot?
John
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by John Harper] |
People have choices along the road to make.
Some choose a life of easy, taking from others as a way of life and career and some put the energies in listening to their parents, pay attention in
school, get a part time job, pay your way through college if desired and strive to get a job that will support them and a family.
Those who made the wrong choices in their youth and end up with no savings and a employment record short on credits.Those with criminal records, x
cons and pimps will certainly come up short in the golden years.
Being young and breaking windows, smashing cars and beating people to a bloody pulp is not the way to make it...and all supported by some radical left
benefactor and some radical anarchists.
If young people can pay attention, they would know that to succeed in life, they have to put in the blood sweat and tears and EARN their money.
A lifestyle of sucking other people's money who earned it is not a smart idea.
And there are millions of these people who make a career out of bilking you out of your earned money.
Bill Clinton had a great idea....."work for welfare" until some politician decided that was harsh on people
And that idea did work....the welfare rolls dropped significantly
NO ONE leaves them to die.....there are agencies that provide care, along with charitable organizations and the Fed program SSI.......for the down and
out.
Leave to die is a scare tactic propagated by the left.
Pushing granny off the cliff was roundly beaten up as nonsense.
Healthcare is an enigma, very costly and wrought with fraud and greedy people.
Yet there is the Federal plan of Medicaid... a plan originally conceived to provide for the healthcare of women and children at risk.
The agencies who administer the Medicaid program are busting doctors, hospitals, individuals and other fraudsters as fast as they can.
I say step it up.....what say you?
That Medicaid got tweaked so bad, it's now available to even able bodied, working age adults and crack hoes get their heroin abscesses swabbed out for
FREE in an ER......and YOU pay for it.
It's not an easy solution all the way around.
I don't know about you, but it galls me to no end to be carrying some of the freight for a person who can, but won't work.
For those who can't work due to age or disability, I am all in for taking care of them.....especially children.
But by gawd.....if you can and won't work.....I have zero sympathy for them
The debt......big problem....coming sooner than we may think.
The government spends more money that in takes in. It's that easy.
Either take in more money or back off the spending. Some make the case just take other people's money, who have lots of it, and fund the US
Treasury.....up to 50% and some want to go back to 95%.
Others make the case to increase the amount of people working, who pay more in income taxes, which goes to the US Treasury.
A government should be frugal in the discretionary spending.
I want my representative to step on every dime before he/she goes off and hands it out.
Every year a paper comes out about all the pork barrel projects that waste a ton of money.....yet it keeps going on and on.
No party has a lock on the pork.....they all do it..
But why, we as voters, allow this to go on?
That's my two pesos in a nutshell......
In short, it's all about the choices one has to make, some choose the right path and some don't.
I would like to hear about your ideas on how to do all this without going massively more in the red. |
The question was posed to your side. I'd like to see your ideas first. Everything you wrote above is just kvetching. People do not choose to be
sick, and for the most part, would prefer a good paying job. Your hyperbolic opinions are not policies, nor plans for a solution.
I'll be happy to post up my proposals, but like the rest of America, I want to see what the right's ideas are. Let's see some simple ideas that seem
a least debatable and possibly feasible.
Who pays for these "agencies" that take care of poor and sick? Where do they come from? How do you organize them? The government?
Please come forth and answer my post first.
John
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by John Harper]
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John Harper
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Chew on these ideas. Remember, everything costs money, even inaction. Doing nothing might be the most costly. Taxes are a necessary evil in modern
society, deal with it and come up with a proposal or two.
Social Security: Raise the arbitrary income limit for taxation. No reason it should be $127,000. What is the rationale for the income limit anyway,
it just allows very rich people to pay a smaller % tax. Is that fair? Do you understand how this is a regressive tax?
Health insurance: Single payer coverage for all citizens, with sliding premiums (means tested), add on private secondary insurance (Medicare
Advantage), and catastrophic coverage. This would free up corporations from running health benefit departments (more profit/higher stock prices) and
allow individuals to choose a plan that suits them if they feel the need for more specialized care. Boutique doctors, etc. would be covered with
slight premium adjustments, obviously. No reason you can't have a market based system with single payer. None.
CUT MILITARY SPENDING!!! It's absolutely absurd what we spend, how can we possibly justify this much money? Compared to even our nearest possible
rival. MIC gone mad!!!
Now, all (or any of) you righty's (I'd love to see just one intelligent proposal on the right). The above is what I call a couple of reasoned
proposals, with some basic funding sources to pay for them. Let's see if you can arrange the blocks in your playpens and sketch out a couple
proposals like I just did.
It's not hard to do if you use that little brain God gave you. Complaints are NOT ideas.
The lazy junkies that take advantage of Medicaid are no different than Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen cheating on taxes. Bad people are on all parts
of the spectrum. And, yes, it does gall me that people don't pay their taxes and cheat on Medicaid. I want fiscal responsibility as well as you do.
John
[Edited on 8-27-2018 by John Harper]
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DaliDali
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My ideas were to slice off the excesses, reassess the results and see where more spending cuts can take place.
Everyone knows of the government waste don't they?
It's pretty simple.......either raise taxes to cover expenses or quit spending more than is taken in.
Who is going to get the short end of the stick?
The takers......who make a career out of bilking the ratepayers and won't earn their own.
Without cutting the spending, I could see neverending tax hikes....providing for people who made the decision to not work, if able, will be
incentivized to continue that path....and on and on by anyone who can pull a fast one
The common phrase of "why work when the government (ratepayers) will provide everything I need" seems appropriate.
Tax hikes blunt econ growth.......blunt personal growth.
A growing econ shovels trillions into the US Treasury AND provides an opportunity for those who want one, a job.
And it personally jacks my jaws that its ok to take another person's money from them, spread it around and without ONE iota of an EARN it component
from those who can. All in the name of income equality.
Full caveat...can't work due to age or disability....good to go on the ratepayers dime.
Come forth?.....is that you Jesus?
You may not agree with my opinion and that's fine.....but it was an opinion devoid of snarks directed towards you wasn't it?
[Edited on 8-27-2018 by DaliDali]
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | My ideas were to slice off the excesses, reassess the results and see where more spending cuts can take place.
Everyone knows of the government waste don't they?
It's pretty simple.......either raise taxes to cover expenses or quit spending more than is taken in.
Who is going to get the short end of the stick?
The takers......who make a career out of bilking the ratepayers and won't earn their own.
Without cutting the spending, I could see neverending tax hikes....providing for people who made the decision to not work, if able, will be
incentivized to continue that path....and on and on by anyone who can pull a fast one
The common phrase of "why work when the government (ratepayers) will provide everything I need" seems appropriate.
Tax hikes blunt econ growth.......blunt personal growth.
A growing econ shovels trillions into the US Treasury AND provides an opportunity for those who want one, a job.
And it personally jacks my jaws that its ok to take another person's money from them, spread it around and without ONE iota of an EARN it component
from those who can. All in the name of income equality.
Full caveat...can't work due to age or disability....good to go on the ratepayers dime.
Come forth?.....is that you Jesus?
You may not agree with my opinion and that's fine.....but it was an opinion devoid of snarks directed towards you wasn't it? |
No, I agree. We should cut spending and adjust taxes where appropriate. I'm looking for a responsible solution, not candycanes and unicorns. I
wish they would deal with the deficit, there are many areas. The military is a huge one.
I would never, evert propose income equality, just far less income inequity. Is it fair that CEO pay has risen meteorically while worker pay
stagnates. Are CEOs better today than 50 years ago, yet receive far more compensation relative to workers. That's inequity.
Once again, for every poor person bilking Medicaid or SNAP (I challenge you to find, and name one), I see a lot more Paul Manaforts, Michael Coens,
Chris Collins, and Duncan Hunters abusing the system. How do you feel about them? At least my demons have names, you just have Fox News
unsubstantiated anecdotes and urban legends.
Thanks for your civil response, that's appreciated.
John
[Edited on 8-27-2018 by John Harper]
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali |
You know Hook......the big hubbub about the collusion thing is Donnie Jr and some pals met with some Ruskie gal in the pretext of getting the dirt on
Hillary.
Best I can figure out, there was no dirt to be had. It was about Ruskie child adoptions....it was over soon after the meeting started because of being
duped from the get go and no dirt. Shame on Junior.
Junior said he did not tell his dad beforehand about the meeting.
Senior said he didn't know about the meeting beforehand and no one has proven that to be a lie.....up to now anyway.
No money exchanged hands and no "dossier" was concocted as a result of that meeting, nor was any clandestine dirt used against Hillary.
On the other hand, Hillary and the DNC paid Fusion GPS for some oppo research.
That "oppo research" morphed into hiring a former British spy, full on Trump hater by the way, to end up counseling with a spy pal of his in Russia.
They both together, penned the now famous "dossier"...which was used as the primary evidence that supported the FISA warrant against Carter Page. Very
unfortunate that the FBI never told the issuing judge how they came across the "dossier" and if it was a paid product of the opposing presidential
candidate.
The rest is history and my main beef is.....how is Donnie Jr meeting with a Ruskie woman, about getting dirt on Hillary, any different than Hillary
paying money for the dirt on Trump, and using foreign spies as the source?
There is a paper trail with the Hillary payment, a trail of foreign spies and and a trail of using that "dossier", in what I believe is the
"insurance" Peter Strzok was referring to with his text messages to Lisa, as probable cause to issue the FISA warrant.
And no paper trail of the meeting with the Ruskie dirt provider in Trump Towers.
The Hillary campaign tried to cleverly mask the using of foreign spies, along with paying them, as "oppo research"
I suppose one could believe that or not....seems a stretch, at least to me, based on the people involved.
I was pretty sure it's against the law for a foreign person or entity to interfere with a US election. Wish I could site that statute for you Hook,
it's tough to dig out.
I think it's pretty clear that Hillary used the resources of foreign nationals, paid for those resources, and with the clear intent of changing the
outcome of that last election in her favor by the "dirt" gleaned from the "dossier"
Everyone thought Hillary was a shoe in and none of this would ever come to light......or at least that is theory anyway.
She lost.....now it's out....high intrigue follows.
Trumps pals got caught up in it all.....and they are paying that price.
Yet not one of them, at least up to now, has directly implicated Trump as to pulling some criminal act. Dicey for sure.
And the standards for a criminal conviction are just not there.
So far, Trump is just guilty of being named Donald Trump.
Criminal proof only counts in a court of law.
It's now in the court of public opinion as to his wrongdoings.
Be very careful about impeachment stuff.....Clinton was impeached and the GOP not only got beaten badly in the following Congressional elections, but
Clinton won reelection in a landslide.
My takeaway from that is the public is not all that keen to impeach a President and will punish those who brought it forward.
I would strongly suggest for the Demo party to run up a better candidate, than another Hillary clone and give it another go.
What say you Mr Hook?
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali] |
I can't wait till Mr Hook, the liberal, answers DaliDali.
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John Harper
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Location: SoCal
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Have any of you on the right ever realized that public education is one of the biggest government provided subsidies we give to American business?
They get workers that can (ideally) read, write, and think critically, with normalized social skills. Perfect worker bees. They don't want ignorant
free range chickens. Yep, another example of corporate welfare. Amazing.
How much would it cost corporate America to train an uneducated workforce?
Way too much.
Impeaching Trump is a stupid idea. Let him suffer the "death of a thousand cuts." A slow drip, drip, drip of scandal and sleaze. He made his bed,
let him toss and turn, and Tweet from it. It's clear he's his own worst enemy. No assistance required.
John
[Edited on 8-27-2018 by John Harper]
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DaliDali
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It's always that raise taxes and cut the military.
Same song, candidate after candidate.
Problem is. it's a tough political go to get a tax increase and tough to cut military spending. Most people like to keep more of what they earn and
maybe notify Iran, China and NK that the US is cutting the defense budget by a cool $200 billion so don't be taking potshots at us....we don't have
the ponies to beat you back anymore.
Rack up big taxes on the wealthy?.......out it goes into some offshore account......NONE of which is touchable by the IRS......smart move.NOT.
Rack up big taxes on business........out they go to Saltillo MX and ChonBuri Thailand......Rack up more regulations.......out they go.
Want to cut the defense......get on the horn with Germany, The Baltics, Poland and other members of NATO......sorry, the USA can no longer give you
cover....your on your own pals. Talk about cutting our allies to sheds
.
While Germany inks a deal to buy Ruskie gas..Germany wants to sell Iran machinery and France wants to sell the Airbus planes....Haysous Christo
Why are we doing this?
Or we could be like the Scandinavian countries....isolated on the world stage, not a world player, not a leader for freedom and tax the bejesus out
it's countrymen........so they can let the government provide for them
Work up something new for a change.....like how to keep the econ on track....fund the treasury with the income that comes from that.
Nah...can't do it....much easier to jack up the tax rate, just get that majority and a liberal president and do it.
And still......to this very day.......there is NO liberal platform to ensure the econ stays on track.
It's Bernie yelling for 50% tax rates, Fauxcahontas FREE FREE..
Building solar panels as the headline econ message......pffff.
Be Careful.....taxes and defense cuts don't sit well with voters.
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | It's always that raise taxes and cut the military.
Same song, candidate after candidate.
Problem is. it's a tough political go to get a tax increase and tough to cut military spending. Most people like to keep more of what they earn and
maybe notify Iran, China and NK that the US is cutting the defense budget by a cool $200 billion so don't be taking potshots at us....we don't have
the ponies to beat you back anymore.
Rack up big taxes on the wealthy?.......out it goes into some offshore account......NONE of which is touchable by the IRS......smart move.NOT.
Rack up big taxes on business........out they go to Saltillo MX and ChonBuri Thailand......Rack up more regulations.......out they go.
Want to cut the defense......get on the horn with Germany, The Baltics, Poland and other members of NATO......sorry, the USA can no longer give you
cover....your on your own pals. Talk about cutting our allies to sheds
.
While Germany inks a deal to buy Ruskie gas..Germany wants to sell Iran machinery and France wants to sell the Airbus planes....Haysous Christo
Why are we doing this?
Or we could be like the Scandinavian countries....isolated on the world stage, not a world player, not a leader for freedom and tax the bejesus out
it's countrymen........so they can let the government provide for them
Work up something new for a change.....like how to keep the econ on track....fund the treasury with the income that comes from that.
Nah...can't do it....much easier to jack up the tax rate, just get that majority and a liberal president and do it.
And still......to this very day.......there is NO liberal platform to ensure the econ stays on track.
It's Bernie yelling for 50% tax rates, Fauxcahontas FREE FREE..
Building solar panels as the headline econ message......pffff.
Be Careful.....taxes and defense cuts don't sit well with voters. |
Presented properly they could very easily be sold, especially the SS income cap. Stop filling voters minds with lies and force them to deal with
reality. It's worked many times.
Solar panels, so at least they tried something. Now the Chinese own the entire market, are you happy?
Dem economic plan is simple. Market economy that watches that externalities don't become detrimental to the general welfare. Pollution, fuel economy
standards, water standards, etc. Nothing wrong with reasonable market pricing. Should chemical companies get a free ride on their toxic waste just
to make a couple more bucks? Or should it be priced into the product so they can absorb the costs of clean production. That would be the true market
solution. I'm all for REAL free markets.
Just because the right always complains that things are too hard to change does not mean that they really are. Look at reusable grocery bags, did
not take long for that to take over. Just takes a little faith, but I thought your side was all about that "faith" thingy?
Raising the income limit on SS is not a tax increase, it's just applying the existing tax much more equitably. That's called tax reform. A much more
palatable offer to the average voter. Why should someone under $127,000 pay a full 7% when people over that threshold see a continually decreased %
of total income going to SS as income increases. Why is that fair? It's ridiculously regressive.
$127,000 income = $8890 SS tax due (7% tax rate)
$1,000,000,000 income = $8890 SS tax due (0.09% tax rate!!!)
Fair or not? Why can't a billionaire pay 7% like the guy making 127K?
John
[Edited on 8-27-2018 by John Harper]
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DaliDali
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Appreciate your ideas John......discussion is always a good thing.
Then along comes Joe and it goes to chit.
I am about out of gas for today......and enough politics for me for a while....
Have a great evening John wherever you are.
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
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You too, sir.
John
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3718
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
Member Is Offline
Mood: muy amable
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You don't get it do you??
| Quote: Originally posted by John Harper | Have any of you on the right ever realized that public education is one of the biggest government provided subsidies we give to American business?
They get workers that can (ideally) read, write, and think critically, with normalized social skills. Perfect worker bees. They don't want ignorant
free range chickens. Yep, another example of corporate welfare. Amazing.
How much would it cost corporate America to train an uneducated workforce?
Way too much.
Impeaching Trump is a stupid idea. Let him suffer the "death of a thousand cuts." A slow drip, drip, drip of scandal and sleaze. He made his bed,
let him toss and turn, and Tweet from it. It's clear he's his own worst enemy. No assistance required.
John
[Edited on 8-27-2018 by John Harper] |
Call it a "government subsidy" if you wish.
84% of the property taxes paid in my county go to public education
That means that since my youngest graduated in 1990 (yes, from a public high school) I have paid over $200,000 into a big void and then the government
washes my dough and you call it a subsidy....grrrrrrrrr
Furthermore, for the past 25 years I have sat on the local Federally mandated Workforce Development Board, did my two years as chair 2000-2002. Still
on the board, chair the Veterans' Training committee.
Do you know the biggest b-tch we get from prospective employers?
"Your schools are not producing candidates that can pass the basic Work Keys assessment for fork lift driver"
Public subsidy benefit indeed.
New people move to town I tell them, send your kids to either Central Catholic or Modesto Christian. They get close to 100% acceptance into colleges
year after year.
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