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David K
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I guess I am confused as we were on a topic that was not about racing, but riding/ driving the Score 1000 course (or some other route down the
peninsula).
I do agree with you Harald, that 300 racers, on all kinds of rides, pre-running and racing, do a serious number on the backcountry roads.
I do agree with 100X about the trash left by spectators... They are LOCALS not foreigners who leave bottles, cans, diapers, etc. as if some magic
genie will clan up after they leave.
It is a tradition (apparently) taught by watching others or their parents... It will take time to learn the simple trash truth: If you can bring it in
FULL, you can easily take it away EMPTY!
My son and I were watching the Baja 500 in 2003, near Independencia, the area was deserted when we arrived but was well-lined with local vehicles when
the racers arrived. The beautiful high desert was a sea of empty beer bottles by the end of the race at that location. Chris and I collected as much
trash as we had room for... Even doing so before all of the locals left... Hoping for a teaching moment, maybe? 
[Edited on 11-22-2021 by David K]
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bajatrailrider
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Score and record racing destroy every road do not repair them . When road gets so bad they cannot race it they go to the next one. So the ranchos
dont want to hear it anymore locked gates. Then the rip to tip Idiots destroy every trail they can find. GPS is the next problem . Im a lifetime off
roader it is turning into So Cal down here. Im Lucky i have keys to locked gated ranchos I surly will not post or give gps tracks. HAHA or even use
gps. Up at El Coyotes the only roads left not destroyed by score .Are behind locked gates thats the facts guys .
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4x4abc
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  |
The beautiful high desert was a sea of empty beer bottles by the end of the race at that location. Chris and I collected as much trash as we had room
for... Even doing so before all of the locals left... Hoping for a teaching moment, maybe?
[Edited on 11-22-2021 by David K] |
no teaching moment at all
it only reinforces the locals' view of you
that you are a not a real man
men don't do trash
the first time I had a conversation with locals about trash was in 1986
Puerto Agua Verde
a horse race
men would stand togethere
women would stand together
the men were drinking beer
a lot
empty cans would just fall out of their hands to the floor
my girlfriend and I cleaned up the mess
someone drunk enough dared to tell me what an idiot without balls I was
it is the women's job to clean up
not necessarily the same day
a real man would never engage in that kind of stuff
similar exchanges happened over the following 35 years
and now that Mexican women are more emancipated, they don't do trash anymore
things got worse
if one intended to change behavior, it would need a role model to demonstrate not littering
someone famous in a tele novela for example
or some famous singer
like when every girl stated showing their underwear once Madona did so
you and I don't have that kind of influence
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
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bajatrailrider
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I had same thing happed on beach years ago watch race with My Mex amigos. Even my close friend half gringo there eating and throwing trash and cans
on beach. I waited till there pile of trash grew. I told them not cool your country throw trash . The half gringo said but we are Mexican! So i
started to pick up there trash in front of them. Putting it in back of my truck they did in fact start to help me. It did make a difference as now 20
years later. When we go out i bring trash bag . They do not throw trash out since Im the elder
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider | | Score and record racing destroy every road do not repair them . When road gets so bad they cannot race it they go to the next one. So the ranchos
dont want to hear it anymore locked gates. Then the rip to tip Idiots destroy every trail they can find. GPS is the next problem . Im a lifetime off
roader it is turning into So Cal down here. Im Lucky i have keys to locked gated ranchos I surly will not post or give gps tracks. HAHA or even use
gps. Up at El Coyotes the only roads left not destroyed by score .Are behind locked gates thats the facts guys . |
| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by David K |
The beautiful high desert was a sea of empty beer bottles by the end of the race at that location. Chris and I collected as much trash as we had room
for... Even doing so before all of the locals left... Hoping for a teaching moment, maybe?
[Edited on 11-22-2021 by David K] |
no teaching moment at all
it only reinforces the locals' view of you
that you are a not a real man
men don't do trash
the first time I had a conversation with locals about trash was in 1986
Puerto Agua Verde
a horse race
men would stand togethere
women would stand together
the men were drinking beer
a lot
empty cans would just fall out of their hands to the floor
my girlfriend and I cleaned up the mess
someone drunk enough dared to tell me what an idiot without balls I was
it is the women's job to clean up
not necessarily the same day
a real man would never engage in that kind of stuff
similar exchanges happened over the following 35 years
and now that Mexican women are more emancipated, they don't do trash anymore
things got worse
if one intended to change behavior, it would need a role model to demonstrate not littering
someone famous in a tele novela for example
or some famous singer
like when every girl stated showing their underwear once Madona did so
you and I don't have that kind of influence |
Fat knuckledraggers in utvs, atvs, tacomas, raptors, etc.
Would be a better world if these fat a$$es$ would get over their infantile infatuation with going fast and making dust clouds, and would find a better
outdoor hobby like kayaking, hiking, kiting, mtn biking, horse riding, etc.
they would be fitter, live longer, and not spoil the world for the rest of us.
The participants were given a chance to behave responsibly on public lands and the participants blew it. I am all for banning all offroad vehicle use
from public lands.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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100X
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Again, spectators are almost unanimously locals.
Probably close to half of SCORE racers are now Mexican.
There are many Mexican organizations putting on many races in the same locations as SCORE, so the roads would be bad even without those from the
north.
As stated, I am not here to tell the wonderful people of Baja how they should act in their own land. I will go forward respectfully but do not feel it
my place to preach to those whose culture and land we are privileged enough to share.
They could get tired of all our condescending, controlling, superior, entitled opinions and preaching and kick all of us out, not just whatever few
perceived knuckle-draggers actually exist.
Yes, the roads get torn up. The fish also get depleted. Hard to find Chocolates. The beaches get blocked. Old trails are not allowed to return to
nature because we keep looking for them. Greater tips become expected. Land and housing prices go up. Eco tours overrun small communities like
Comondu. Who among us is not to blame for something...?
A life of fears leads to a death bed of regrets.
Find someone who will take care of you, and take care of them.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64858
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Nothing stays the same... everything changes... except some people, who are the slowest to change.
Baja, because of its bad roads or no roads, has been slow to change and many of us experienced decades of that solitude.
The Baja 1000 originally used the main road from Ensenada to La Paz, except between San Ignacio and the La Purísima area.
New routes began to be used in 1972 to avoid pavement or construction zones. No 1000 in 1974 because of a change in race promoters. In 1975, a loop
1000 was created and used the Seven Sisters roads for the first time.
In 1979, the 1000 again ran to La Paz and would do so every few years thereafter. In the 1990s, Trophy Trucks were born and now boast 1000
horsepower. The only good part is they are going to all-wheel-drive which is far friendlier to dirt roads than rear-wheel-drive and spinning ruts!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for people's impact on Baja:
In 1973, Hwy. 1 was completed.
In 1978, Hwy. 3 was completed (then called BC #16).
In the 1980s, roads were graded that had required a 4WD.
In 2020, Hwy. 5 was completed.
Bad roads brought GOOD people...
Good roads bring ALL kinds of people!
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dravnx
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Registered: 10-27-2005
Location: N. Cal.
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Have you considered the NORRA Mexican 1000? I've crewed for a few bikes. Very do-able and not too expensive. Fun crowd, racers, crews and organizers.
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eastmeetswest
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Finally. Back on track for a couple of posts. With a few friends we are thinking of doing NORRA this year. I would love to hear tips and feedback
about a group of friends doing NORRA?
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100X
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Don't know anything about it.
If you want to get back to talking about the Baja 1000, my comments are above...
A life of fears leads to a death bed of regrets.
Find someone who will take care of you, and take care of them.
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100X
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That was probably too snarky...sorry.
A life of fears leads to a death bed of regrets.
Find someone who will take care of you, and take care of them.
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advrider
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I call bullchit on you GOAT! I have been doing a lot of hiking the last couple of years in prep for my PCT hike next year. I find a huge amount of
trash and toilet paper that your tree huggers leave behind, I either burn it or pack it out.
I'm talking 20 plus miles into the back country so it's not day hikers. I have done the same thing on offroad trails, trash, TP and burnt chit
in fire pits. Offer still stands, my fat ass will take you on any hike you want to show you what you don't know!
I agree on the NORRA idea as well, hell I'll help for free with whatever is needed.
[Edited on 11-24-2021 by advrider]
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by 100X | Personally have never seen an upset rancher of vaquero.
Almost all spectators are locals.
It is their land/country, culture, decision ultimately, and the support for racing, especially down south, seems pretty unanimous. I choose to go with
the flow, respectfully. Otherwise I would go try to impose my will where it might be better received. |
plenty of upset ranchers
https://www.elsudcaliforniano.com.mx/local/municipios/piden-...
Harald Pietschmann
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John Harper
Super Nomad
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Registered: 3-9-2017
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| Quote: Originally posted by advrider | I call bullchit on you GOAT! I have been doing a lot of hiking the last couple of years in prep for my PCT hike next year. I find a huge amount of
trash and toilet paper that your tree huggers leave behind, I either burn it or pack it out.
I'm talking 20 plus miles into the back country so it's not day hikers. I have done the same thing on offroad trails, trash, TP and burnt chit
in fire pits. Offer still stands, my fat ass will take you on any hike you want to show you what you don't know!
I agree on the NORRA idea as well, hell I'll help for free with whatever is needed. |
There's been a massive influx of kooks in to the backcountry the last couple of years. No one could travel, so they trashed the local backcountry.
Take a look at what happened up in the San Bernardino Mountains and the issues with off roaders. There's just too many disrespectful and selfish
people today!!!
Trailheads were closed, but people went anyway and just crapped in the fire rings and threw trash everywhere. No education at all about "Leave No
Trace" practices or principles. I always make it a point to pick up trash when I've been out to MSR in Baja (sad!), as well as on my backpacking and
camping trips to the Sierra and Wyoming.
John
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by advrider | I call bullchit on you GOAT! I have been doing a lot of hiking the last couple of years in prep for my PCT hike next year. I find a huge amount of
trash and toilet paper that your tree huggers leave behind, I either burn it or pack it out.
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You can try to call bullchit, but you are in fact full of bullchit.. Littering is a problem everywhere, but litterbugs are more prevalent in Mexico
on a per capita basis.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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100X
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https://youtu.be/nthvQbuU1xQ
A life of fears leads to a death bed of regrets.
Find someone who will take care of you, and take care of them.
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John Harper
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The trailhead restrooms were closed as well.
John
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advrider
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100x, thanks for posting the video, very cool.
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