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JDCanuck
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Other than driving older vehicles, dressing down to understate your wealth, traveling to new unknown areas with either local friends or tour guards,
what do you suggest to provide protection in an increasingly angry environment? Or is it really not worth worrying about despite what so many others
have run into?
Extortion, kidnappings, home invasions and just disappearances seem to be a growing problem, or am I just talking to the wrong people who have run
into this?
[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JDCanuck]
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willardguy
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If he actually spoke Spanish, he would know how his instant local "friends" talk about gringoes like him between themselves.
BINGO!
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John Harper
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In the room? I think he's cowering in a corner, with wet diapers.
John
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JDCanuck
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This fairly recent report seems to be especially concerning as related to Baja.
https://timesofsandiego.com/crime/2022/09/02/news-reports-of...
One quote: Media reports of “high-impact” violence by criminal groups against authorities or large crowds meanwhile rose 756%, from 25 to 214.
[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JDCanuck]
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mtgoat666
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Sounds like we may need security guards on our next vacation, eh? If you can’t afford security guards on your vacation, perhaps JZ will let you tag
along on vacation with his entourage that travels with security guards 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JDCanuck
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Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  |
Sounds like we may need security guards on our next vacation, eh? If you can’t afford security guards on your vacation, perhaps JZ will let you tag
along on vacation with his entourage that travels with security guards
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I've heard that suggestion before. It sure would have helped the last time we were targets of extortion in Mexicali. Almost every travel site
recommends travelling in groups for extra protection.
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surabi
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Wasn't directing it at you, sorry if it seemed that way. Was adding to your comment re JZ's "reaching out" to locals, who he seems to think makes them
instant, loyal friends.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Other than driving older vehicles, dressing down to understate your wealth, traveling to new unknown areas with either local friends or tour guards,
what do you suggest to provide protection in an increasingly angry environment? Or is it really not worth worrying about despite what so many others
have run into?
Extortion, kidnappings, home invasions and just disappearances seem to be a growing problem, or am I just talking to the wrong people who have run
into this?
[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JDCanuck] |
I think it is on the increase, but that could be said of violence in general all over the world. The US has had 548 mass shootings in 2022 so far.
Does that mean the average American worries about driving across 2 states to visit Grandma, or goes in a group or with a guard to go shopping?
For every violent incident you hear about in Mexico, there are 100s of thousands of foreigners who travel and live in Mexico without incident. That
isn't what sells news.
I was once caravaning down with another single woman, each in our own vehicle, from Nogales to the PV area. I had made that drive several times, never
had any problems, and was the lead car.
There was a bunch of highway construction going on in Guaymas, with the usual bad Mexican detour signage, and suddenly I found myself back on a
highway, but with the highway signs indicating we were
headed for a town I had never heard of.
Just as I was about to pull over to check the map, a lone guy in a small car pulled up alongside and waved me over. I had heard all the scary stories,
but it was the middle of the day, with tons of traffic, so I wasn't particularly fearful, but certainly wary. My friend had pulled up off the highway
behind me. A nice looking man, in his 30s, dressed in business attire, with a name tag on his shirt got out of his car, said we were going the wrong
way, that the turn to the highway we wanted was 2 lights back, where we should turn left.
I don't know how he knew we were lost, maybe the Sayulita sticker on my back window, maybe he'd been driving behind us and saw me hesitating every
time I came to a new detour sign.
Anyway, I thanked him and turned around, but when I came to the first light, I saw another detour sign and turned left. I didn't realize he had also
turned around and was behind us, but he drove alongside me and said, "No, follow me" and pulled in front. He led us through a couple blocks of a
Mexican residential neighborhood, after which we emerged on the correct highway heading south. He pulled into a Pemex, smiled and waved as we drove
by, and turned around, heading back up the highway in the other direction.
The guy had gone out of his way to help two lost gringas, without being asked.
I have experienced other acts of selfless kindness on my travels, and am of the mind that those are more common than acts of violence. At least I hope
so, and that has been my experience.
[Edited on 10-18-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
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JDCanuck
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At present, the criminals seem to be winning the battle in Baja, taking out the good police faster than the authorities can weed out the bad.
Maybe there's a lesson in that for us... give the decent, self sacrificing police their deserved respect and trust them to take out the bad ones
instead of accusing the good ones of being crooked and chasing them out.
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surabi
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The average monthly salary for police officers in Mexico is 20,100 pesos, which INCLUDES any and all benefits. The lowest starting salary is 9,260,
with 32,000 for senior officers who have been with the force for decades. Small wonder they would be drawn to augment their salaries.
Maids and gardeners make almost that average, and certainly more than the starting police salary, in the area of Mexico where I live for jobs where
they aren't putting their lives in danger.
Perhaps the Mexican police force would have a higher caliber of applicants if they were paid more.
However, while there are certainly good and honest police who want to help society by their service, there is also the fact that many bullies and
wanna be bullies, the types who like throwing their weight around and strutting about with a gun on their hip, are drawn to the police and military-
that is true everywhere. And those types are more likely to ally themselves with the cartels and criminals.
And in Mexico, the Govt, regardless of party affiliation, the police and the cartels are so intertwined, and have been for so long, that it's a pretty
overwhelming prospect to find solutions to.
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
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JDCanuck
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Which makes me very happy with the calibre of police we have here in the RCMP. I have had lots of dealings with them and have always been impressed
with how well they handle volatile situations and bring them to a peaceful conclusion.
They must get very frustrated when they deal with a very sticky situation and the perpetrator beats them back to the street(rinse and repeat)
Likewise, I have always appreciated the Mexican police and have watched them keep the peace in the tourist areas and airports, I just wish there was a
way to reward them for their efforts without the bribes that seem to have become deeply embedded. They have certainly impressed me with their
commitment and humanity on multiple occasions.
I watched them dig into their pockets and feed money to a street person who was searching for food in Mexico city airport so he wouldn't have to dig
in the trash for it. We don't often see that up here.
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by JDCanuck]
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surabi
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Yes, you don't hear about many cases of police brutality in Canada, although I've encountered some a**hole RCMP. And alliance and white gloves
treatment by some of the police in Ottawa with the anti-Covid measures truckers convoy, who made life hell for residents and businesses in Ottawa for
weeks, is now coming to light.
I had a young male friend who was hitchhiking from Victoria up Vancouver Island and got picked up by some psycho who threatened him with a gun. My
friend managed to jump out of the car and run into the convenience store when the guy stopped for gas, telling the salesgirl to lock the door and call
the cops. They arrived, and a high speed chase ensued, and they got the guy when his engine quickly blew up. The cop came back to the convenience
store, told my friend the guy was known to them, very dangerous and he was lucky to be alive, pulled money out of his wallet and handed it to my
friend, telling him not to hitch, to wait for the bus.
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
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surabi
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The DEA, and America's ridiculous "War on Drugs" is what precipitated the increased danger for average people in Mexico, IMO. The old drug lords, like
mafia everywhere, ran a tight ship. They largely respected each other's territories, when they did vie for territory, they killed each other, they
didn't mess with the common people, or open fire in crowded places full of old folks, women and children. They didn't kidnap and murder students, they
didn't extort grandma and grandpa running their little corner store, they didn't target tourists or ex-pats. There was a sort of honor among thieves.
When the powers that be started arresting, locking up, or killing the old guard, the punks, raised in poverty in crime ridden areas, with no morals or
conscience, in a world filled with violent video games and horrible crazy-making drugs like meth and fentanyl, rose up the ranks with no one to keep
them in check. Now it just seems like a free-for-all, with these animals constantly trying to take over each other's territories, terrorizing the
populace, killing the police, turning one area after another into places people are scared to go or live.
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | The DEA, and America's ridiculous "War on Drugs" is what precipitated the increased danger for average people in Mexico, IMO. The old drug lords, like
mafia everywhere, ran a tight ship. They largely respected each other's territories, when they did vie for territory, they killed each other, they
didn't mess with the common people, or open fire in crowded places full of old folks, women and children. They didn't kidnap and murder students, they
didn't extort grandma and grandpa running their little corner store, they didn't target tourists or ex-pats. There was a sort of honor among thieves.
When the powers that be started arresting, locking up, or killing the old guard, the punks, raised in poverty in crime ridden areas, with no morals or
conscience, in a world filled with violent video games and horrible crazy-making drugs like meth and fentanyl, rose up the ranks with no one to keep
them in check. Now it just seems like a free-for-all, with these animals constantly trying to take over each other's territories, terrorizing the
populace, killing the police, turning one area after another into places people are scared to go or live.
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi] |
Another compassionate and dedicated RCMP officer just killed in Vancouver by a street person she failed to adequately protect herself from. Hatred
against police generated in the last couple years has not helped. Drugs, homelessness and the resulting violent crime they create are spiraling out of
control everyplace. Exploding illegal drug use is definitely winning the war at present. What is your solution if not fighting it at the supply side?
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/arti...
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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Lencho; I see RCMP working alongside the social workers with the homeless often, and my daughter was also a mental health worker working with street
people. Their standard MO is defuse the anger and approach as a support person, not with guns at the ready. I am amazed at the risk they will put
themselves at in these situations, which is why I get a bit angry when I see the media trashing them and generating anger and resentment in the
people they are out there trying to aid and protect.
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surabi
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And how well has "fighting it on the supply side" worked out? Seem to be just as many drugs available as ever. You can't stop the drug trade. But you
can work towards reducing the demand. If there is no demand for a product, there is no point in supplying it, right?
Why are you not a homeless drug addict? Why am I not? Why are none of my kids or grandkids nodding out in a grimey alley, strung out on fentanyl? It's
certainly just as available to us as it is to anyone else who wants it. The reasons people end up like that isn't because drugs are available.
Crime, poverty, and dangerous drug use are the result of economic disparity, lack of education and opportunities, and mental health issues. Addressing
those issues, shunting the money currently wasted on trying to stop the flow of drugs into education, free after school programs for kids who need
them, good mental health services, paying people a living wage so a single mom doesn't have to be out working 2 jobs while her kids are unsupervised,
those are the kind of solutions that keep people from wanting to do bad drugs in the first place.
And what struck me when my kids were young, is that while courses like metal or woodworking shop, sewing and cooking, were offered on the high school
level, they aren't offered on the elementary school level. My kids were all good at academics, but some kids aren't. When a kid doesn't have the kind
of mind that leads them to be interested in reading, writing, math, etc, what happens? They make poor grades and end up feeling dumb. But those kids
may be a whizzes at fixing mechanical things, building things, they may find they love to cook, or sew and are good at it. If those kinds of programs
were offered at the elementary school level, those kids would build self-esteem by finding something they excel at, and they may even start doing
better at the academics, because they develop self-confidence and of course everyone needs to have basic language and math skills to make it in this
world.
Imagine a kid who only gets Kraft dinner and hot dogs at home, whose family eats at Mcdonalds three times a week. If a cooking course was offered at
the elementary level, that child might find they love creating meals from all the ingredients they never had been exposed to before. "Oh, you mean a
salad isn't just a piece of wilted iceberg lettuce and a slice of tomato? I could make a delicious, and pretty salad, grating beets and carrots and
using purple cabbage and apples and tangerines?"
That kid could end up becoming a 5* chef instead of doing B&Es and meth.
And what the "war on drugs" fails to acknowledge is that humans have sought to alter their consciousness throughout history and all over the world.
Every culture has a way to get high or feel "different", whether it's a form of alcohol, a plant, caffeine, tobacco, yoga practice, or even working
themselves up into a religious frenzy. You can see the desire to alter one's consciousness and perception even in little kids, who find out that if
they spin around fast, they get dizzy and wobbly.
There is a book called The Fourth Drive, by American psychopharmacologist Dr. Ronald Siegal who believes that the desire for some form of
intoxication is a basic human drive, as fundamental as food, drink and sex.
That makes a lot of sense if you look at psychology, history and anthropology studies. So if we acknowledge this part of the human make-up as a basic
drive, it's a matter of having acceptable intoxicating substances available that lead people to higher consciousness, or relax them, without leading
them to be crazy or violent, lacking motivation, ill, or dead.
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
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Don Pisto
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Mood: weary like everyone else
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BRAVO!...gracias
there's only two things in life but I forget what they are........
John Hiatt
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JDCanuck
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While every one of those suggestions would be a positive , do you see any place where they are actually being enhanced? Each one of them has been
drastically reduced in our area, which also contributed to the problem. There are lots of reports out there of what the past two years have done to
the mental health of the youth, making them particularly vulnerable to predatory forces.
Institutions closed, health worker training drastically reduced and now a severe shortage of all medical personnel.
Perhaps in your area you are not seeing this, but in ours it is now at crisis levels and the drug use and death rates and crime growth are just the
most obvious signs.
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surabi
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If anyone is interested in understanding how and why people end up on the street, addicted to drugs, and why addressing those reasons is how we start
to solve the drug problem, there is a series of amazing, mesmerizing interviews with homeless drug addicts called Soft White Underbelly. Just Google
it. Almost all of these people grew up neglected, and/or physically and sexually abused. And while some of the people in those interviews have
obviously damaged their brains beyond repair, many are extremely articulate and obviously intelligent.
Dealing with the drug problem means saving children from this sort of upbringing, so they don't grow into people who need to find ways to dull their
constant pain and self-loathing.
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
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surabi
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"There are lots of reports out there of what the past two years have done to the mental health of the youth, making them particularly vulnerable to
predatory forces."
Sorry, but I don't buy that. The pandemic was hard on everyone, and certainly hard on kids and parents, with schools and daycares closed, and many
parents busy working from home online. Some parents rose the challenge (yes, surprise surprise, responsible parenting is really hard sometimes),
creating a small bubble of friends and family so the kids would not be totally isolated, did schoolwork with them, came up with interesting and
creative projects to do with them, engaged in lots of outdoor physical activity with them. And some whined and acted like it was just too
overwhelming, letting their kids sit in front of a screen playing video games and doing who knows what online all day, as if that was a suitable
babysitter.
I would also venture a guess that the parents who explained to their kids why these lockdown measures were necessary fared much better than those
whose parents railed against them, talking around and to the kids about how it was stupid and unnecessary, that Covid was overblown, and how the
government is just trying to control everyone.
My grandkids didn't end up being vulnerable to predatory forces, or falling behind in their studies, did yours?
And do I see the solutions I proposed being enhanced? No. I am saying they need to be, because stopping the flow of drugs is a losing proposition and
the resources currently used to try to do that should be redirected to addressing and solving the underlying reasons why anyone wants those drugs in
the first place.
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]
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