I just gave you an example. With regards to eternity they emphasize it's negative consequences and omit it's positive ones. Why?
The criticism of Christianity is done by literally analyzing the bible. Yet very few Christians do that. You say then they are not Christians. Yet
they consider themselves Christians. The reality is that you define Christians in a manner that most Christians don't. Why is that done? In order to
easily debunk the most offensive passages about the bible, passages about wife bestings and slavery. Among other things the bible is a history of
morals through the ages. Your judging 10,000 year old morals by current standards and saying how could god have done this. So what happens 10,000
years from now when morals change again. This sort of analysis of Christianity is not being even handed and made me suspicious from the start.
Regarding religious truth vs science. One is intuitive and the other is empirical. Yet you are using criteria of empirical truth (EVIDENCE) to judge
both kinds of truth. Why?
<<Regarding religious truth vs science. One is intuitive and the other is empirical. Yet you are using criteria of empirical truth (EVIDENCE) to
judge both kinds of truth. Why?>>
My positions on religious truth (an oxymarooon) and science are both based on evidence. Lack of it for the former, existence of it for the latter.
Originally posted by shari
OK brother ....no evidence? I'm going to share a story with you which when it happened, it sure made me have one of those WTF moments.
When Sirenita was about 4 or maybe 5, one day out of the blue she said to me...you know momma....I chose you. I saw you down there in the panga on the
lagoon and thought you would be a great mom.
Why on earth would she say that? Many women have gotten pregnant in the whale lagoon of Ojo de Liebre who were unable to conceive before...seems like
there are souls "up there" waiting to come back again....but the thought of one choosing it's host was most interesting....for what it's worth.
Seems to me there is alot of information about reincarnation...stories that I guess cant be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt...but still they make
one think.
Sis I am moved by those types of stories. My own hija Coleen is convinced that my grandmother, her great-grandmother, who we both adored and who died
30+ years ago, visits her occasionally. She is certain of that, as is Sirenita that she chose you as her mom, but both stories are without EVIDENCE.
I am convinced that our brains are fully capable, at some level of consciousness, of creating stories like that and making us think they are real
(think dreams). As sweet as they are, and as much as we want to believe that they are real, they all just happen in the brain. I am glad our brains
are capable of doing that, but as I have pointed out, there is a real danger in believing that such things are real.
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
He was on PBS the other night. He speaks with a very heavy accent. That, combined with the subject matter, makes him virtually unintelligible.
I seemed to get the gist of what he was saying.....but I didn't see him on PBS, just in videos.
So Ken, a different angle on the brain thing----about 2 years ago while living in Texas still I had a very vivid dream of a former colleague in
California. He was with a blonde woman in the dream--nothing much going on except we're all talking. Now I hadn't seen or even talked with this
guy(back to real life) in 5 years. Two weeks later he calls me---says his daughter is going to TCU in Fort Worth and would I like to get together
while he and his wife are getting their daughter set up at school. I say sure, of course----we meet at a restaurant and there he is with his lovely
blonde wife----who I had never met or seen before, by the way.
My wife can attest to this---I told her about the dream when I woke up and she was suitably amazed when he called.
How do you suppose this information leaked into my dream world ahead of time?
Your take on my tribute to a deceased friend is bewildering to me Igor. Declaring it to be "false" is misleading. The feelings expressed in those
words were true, even though I knew Jim wasn't bouncing around the universe or flying old airplanes or lying on Baja beaches.
Brother Ken...I am curious how you KNOW your friend isnt lying on a baja beach...just wondering if you have some inside info you can share?
All I know for sure is that I dont know for sure what happens after our body dies....I have some ideas but it's part of the great mystery of life.
Can't resist elaborating on this Sis. I think belief in an afterlife is actually dangerous. If people realized that they've only got one shot at
life, I think they would be kinder to each other in the one life we all have. The world would be a better place. If people knew that this is our one
and only life, it is unlikely that there would be a lot of airplanes flown into buildings.
hmmm...my thought is that if our soul does in fact return and our karma fulfilled, then I figure we should be as nice as possible so we may come back
to a higher level of conciousness and a happier existence. If death is so final...who gives a poop what we do in this life then...there will be no
reckoning of any sort which leaves one not really caring about what may happen after.....which in my humble opinion is more dangerous.
HOLA, I figure this way....."I have had to live before,,,there is no way I could become this stupid in one lifetime.alone" but I have checked out NDE on the web and is rather interesting..see for
yourself...NDE..............K & T
Your take on my tribute to a deceased friend is bewildering to me Igor. Declaring it to be "false" is misleading. The feelings expressed in those
words were true, even though I knew Jim wasn't bouncing around the universe or flying old airplanes or lying on Baja beaches.
Brother Ken...I am curious how you KNOW your friend isnt lying on a baja beach...just wondering if you have some inside info you can share?
All I know for sure is that I dont know for sure what happens after our body dies....I have some ideas but it's part of the great mystery of life.
Can't resist elaborating on this Sis. I think belief in an afterlife is actually dangerous. If people realized that they've only got one shot at
life, I think they would be kinder to each other in the one life we all have. The world would be a better place. If people knew that this is our one
and only life, it is unlikely that there would be a lot of airplanes flown into buildings.
hmmm...my thought is that if our soul does in fact return and our karma fulfilled, then I figure we should be as nice as possible so we may come back
to a higher level of conciousness and a happier existence. If death is so final...who gives a poop what we do in this life then...there will be no
reckoning of any sort which leaves one not really caring about what may happen after.....which in my humble opinion is more dangerous.
Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, etc. etc. couldn't have been too worried about afterlife retribution.
Storyline
There is a revolution going on in science. A genuine paradigm shift. While mainstream science remains materialist, a substantial number of scientists
are supporting and developing a paradigm based on the primacy of consciousness. Amit Goswami, Ph.D., a pioneer of this revolutionary new perspective
within science, shares with us his vision of the unlimited potential of consciousness as the ground of all being, and how this revelation can actually
help us to live better. The Quantum Activist tells the story of a man who challenges us to rethink our very notions of existence and reality, with a
force and scope not felt since Einstein. This film bridges the gap between God and Science. The work of Goswami, with stunning precision and without
straying from the rigors of quantum mechanics, reveals the overarching unity inherent in the worlds major religions and mystical traditions. Meet the
man behind the message as Dr...
Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, etc. etc. couldn't have been too worried about afterlife retribution.
Hitler was a Christian. I think he would've believed in an afterlife.
Hitler was, seemingly, not an atheist.
Hitler said in his famous book, Mein Kampf, that he was doing the work of God:
"I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work."
Pretty crazy..........
As for the other madmen, they're generally used in this argument to say that they were evil murderer, and atheists, so somehow their atheism must have
something to do with them being an evil murderer.
This is an example of an association fallacy. If Pol Pot had a mustache, we wouldn't conclude that anyone with a mustache is like Pol Pot.
I'd say that these madmen didn't believe in afterlife retribution. They believed in while alive retribution. They were maniacs, torturers, and
killers. All stuff we can agree on is bad for our fellow human beings. Just my opinion..........
Stalin was actually a seminarian at one time. Hard to believe.
I'm not big into judging fallen political figures. The winning side always demonizes the losing side. If Germany had won the war then FDR and
Churchill would have been anathema to the world.
It takes a long time, if ever, for the proper perspective to return. Julias Caesar was a harsh dictator but history has given him a pass. Even
Genghis Khan is now being reinterpreted. Napoleon? A butcher that only the French loved at first. Now, he's mostly admired. Le Petite General.
Let's face it, doing the right thing can be tough:
HOLA,you a a very wise man !! I know all that you speak is true...but folks from the the US belive that they are from the free and the best place on
the planet..and thatb they get to vote and decide the laws...YA,BABY...keep watching that TV..
Originally posted by captkw
HOLA,you a a very wise man !! I know all that you speak is true...but folks from the the US belive that they are from the free and the best place on
the planet..and thatb they get to vote and decide the laws...YA,BABY...keep watching that TV..
Thank you captkw! You are correct in what you say (following the compliment...aw shucks! ). I have deleted my post that you have responded to because it is not Baja related. Another reason is, that parts of it
could be considered inflammatory. I care about this board and do not wish to violate its rules or my personal standard of conduct.
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Stalin was actually a seminarian at one time. Hard to believe.
I'm not big into judging fallen political figures. The winning side always demonizes the losing side. If Germany had won the war then FDR and
Churchill would have been anathema to the world.
It takes a long time, if ever, for the proper perspective to return. Julias Caesar was a harsh dictator but history has given him a pass. Even
Genghis Khan is now being reinterpreted. Napoleon? A butcher that only the French loved at first. Now, he's mostly admired. Le Petite General.
Let's face it, doing the right thing can be tough:
[Edited on 6-28-2012 by Skipjack Joe]
Borrowing a Joseph Campbell story:
Two birds in a tree, fast friends----one is eating the fruit of the tree and the other is watching the first one eat.
Those are our two perspectives in this world---one is eating the fruit, going to work, making judgements, going to war---in the field of action, so to
speak. This is the perspective where we judge things as good or bad---Stalin was bad, etc. The other perspective is the one that watches all this
and looks at the big picture---who knows what is good or bad really in the long run....this is where Jesus is talking about not judging others. It is
interesting to see how Caesar et al are looked at with kinder eyes as time goes by.
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Of all the things you wrote on religion and the afterlife on this thread, Ken, the most meaningful in an inner sense was the one you wrote about your
deceased friend. And yet this was declared to be false. Well, why does falseness feel as though it's closer to reality than reality? Why doesn't truth
feel as enriching as the lies?
Perhaps that explains why people aren't dropping their bibles and rushing to brain chemistry. So far it does little to quench the soul. It does so by
conveniently denying that it exists. It doesn't even understand what religion provides. It spends all of it's energy on where religion erred. Past
human attempts at understanding what is felt within is mocked with a series of logical explanations that are irrelevant to a search for inner truth.
I suppose that "feeling" goes to the core of what I believe to "be real" to me, deep down inside although I choose to pursue this path sans organized
religion...
"If it were lush and rich, one could understand the pull, but it is fierce and hostile and sullen.
The stone mountains pile up to the sky and there is little fresh water. But we know we must go back
if we live, and we don't know why." - Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
"People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care." - Theodore Roosevelt
"You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them or to them." - Malcolm Forbes
"Let others lead small lives, but not you. Let others argue over small things, but not you. Let others
cry over small hurts, but not you. Let others leave their future in someone else's hands, but not you." - Jim Rohn
"The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer." - Cunningham's Law
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but I have checked out NDE on the web and is rather interesting..see for
yourself...NDE..............K & T
