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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Sure, happens when you guarantee someone a job no matter what their perfomance is...
Unions wrecked the American automobile industry also...
Now, what does this have to do with a wall to protect America from illegal entry?
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SiReNiTa
Special Correspondent
Posts: 881
Registered: 5-5-2006
Location: Ensenada, B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Savoring life while saving the world!
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legal!!
| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Disregarding the Security issues, the most important consideration is the economic effect. Despite our enforcement procedures up until now, we have
an estimated 11-13 Million Illegal Aliens in the U.S. IF there were no enforcement, that number would have Quadrupled or worse.
There is NO WAY that we could maintain a satisfactory quality of life for the middle-class American with that sort of influx.
Once we get control of the bleeding I, like most Americans, am in favor of a Legal Immigration Plan which addresses the employment needs of the U.S.
[Edited on 10-13-2006 by MrBillM] |
i second that...I mean i know it can be apain but if both countries would work something out everyone would be close to happy!!
Live life as well as you can,
don\'t regret the things that once made you smile,
learn from your mistakes,
and thank God for every second he gives you upon this earth.
Visit me at
Http://BajaScents.Scentsy.com.mx
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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David: I cited the non-union meat packing industry as a perfect example of big business creating such an irresistable draw for undocumented workers
to cross the border for work. If big corporations were not above the law, and were not allowed to hire illegals, the migrants would have no reason to
climb the damned fence. They don't get much of a deal even when they do.
Example:
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/un-sub1005/
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Sure, happens when you guarantee someone a job no matter what their perfomance is...
Unions wrecked the American automobile industry also...
Now, what does this have to do with a wall to protect America from illegal entry? |
Everyone knows the unions are riddled lazy third grade drug addicts. We have to pay them three time what they are worth. There is no way you will ever
change them. This is why we are no longer completive in the world. The fence would allow us to bring in a controlled hard working work force at a
reasonable wage. This way in the years to come a better educate will be coming along (Maybe their children) to help as they (the Mexican) retire.
EDITWe will be able to pay these educated worker well. This is the mess the union put us in in the name of better working conditions.
If we don't control the border now, there maybe a war between the third graders and the Mexicans.
[Edited on 10-16-2006 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
David: I cited the non-union meat packing industry as a perfect example of big business creating such an irresistable draw for undocumented workers
to cross the border for work. If big corporations were not above the law, and were not allowed to hire illegals, the migrants would have no reason to
climb the damned fence. They don't get much of a deal even when they do.
Example:
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/un-sub1005/ |
This is what I am talking about. We need to make them legal to kick the union butt so we can be completive again.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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While we are at it, we need hard working Mexicans to the Government unions.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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No high...30+ year employer...
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
Your previous statements ring hollow and reactionary. I grew up in a family business so I know both sides of the table. |
You cannot believe I was referring to every person in every union, That would be reactionary. Our Country has had a gun held, by the unions, to our
heads long enough. Please let us be completive. Require union members to be competent and most of all don't try to force employers to hire people they
don't want to. Soulpatch I am not your enemy, and I do understand you defense posture, but just sit for a minute and think about who Toyota is.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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O.K. Boys and Girls, let us settle down and have a Cooler discussion about the Wall! But first I must address my Post and those who responded:
I only Post from Experience:
First I am only opposed to Unions in the Public Sector.
I was a Fan of Harry Bridges, not for who he represented but the manner in which he operated and controlled a large number of People!
Myex wife retired from Teaching after 30 years- She was forced to go into the new Teachers Union-or loose her Job- Teaching, FireFighters,Policeman
are emplyees of the Public- In my eyes they are Special and should not be subject to the many ways a Union conducts its business in a Competative
Business--Not allowing an incomptent Teacher to be fired. Using Strike Threats etc.
The Air Controllers found out several years ago.
I think that Unions are good in many cases, their Demize in recent years , I think, is a result of some Bad Habits in the Past, Just like some of the
Enron People. Sooner or Later if you "Lie, Cheat, and Steal it will catch up with You.
In Loreto Several years ago, a Cooperative of Fisherman were assembled to Control the Pangeros and Fishing in Loreto.So you spent your money to come
to Loreto to Fish. The Coop{Union} assigned you a Person with a Panga to take you Fishing--Some of them had never been in a Panga and knew nothing
about fishing!!
On the Schools;; The NEA pushes the Teachers to teach the present Day Children "Lock and Secure" then Hide under your Desk!!
Would it not be better to have a Progrem of Martial Arts/Boxing and teach some to be "Fighters" insteads of Hiding??
Might be that someday one of those Nuts comes into a School with a Gun and a "Fighter Hits him over the Head with a Chair and saves his Clasmates.
Fighter- or teach your children to Hide??
Skeet
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Encouraging News
Union membership as a percentage of the total work force has been on a steady decline for many years now. At present, it's below Twenty Percent. The
majority of union workers are now those who work for Government entities. Millions of people are working in non-union positions and enjoying a
satisfactory standard of living.
Having been both an employer and employee in Union and Non-Union positions, I welcome the decline as good news. The greatest fault with Labor Unions
is that they promote and protect Mediocre employees.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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"I welcome the decline as good news."
Didn't you post a while back that you were in favor of abolishing the minimum wage? Maybe you should just illustrate the end result as you invision.
Which existing country is most similar to your intended model of a transformed U.S.? Please answer by just naming a country.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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A very reasonable question Packoderm, I'll be interested to read his answer.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
A very reasonable question Packoderm, I'll be interested to read his answer. |
I wont be. It will be filled with the usual personal attacks/name-calling/generalizations about someone.....really, anyone.......who disagrees with
him.
Personally, I'm sick of him ruining legitimate discussions with the invective. And I say this realizing there is much in his beliefs that I agree
with. But his method is abhorrant.
For my part, I'm simply going to begin using the "report" feature every time he does it. I encourage others to do so, as well. Maybe Doug will see fit
to put him in a corner for awhile for not being able to play by the rules.
He ruins too many good discussions with his attacks. It's pure E.I.B. hero-worship.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
For my part, I'm simply going to begin using the "report" feature every time he does it. |
Why bother Doug with something the community can take care of? If we have enough self-discipline, that is... 
--Larry |
Because a temporary or permanent banning seems to fit the crime.
You really think that we, as a community, can change his ways? I dont.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Confused Packo
To the best of my knowledge, I have never expressed a desire here for the minimum wage to be abolished. Feel free to search to your heart's content
if you think differently. You might find something. I don't spend much thought worrying about the minimum wage or those who earn it.
Union vs Non-Union is an issue divorced from any relation to the Minimum wage which is, to me, a meaningless figure. I've never worked for the
minimum wage (even during High School) and I've never met a minimum wage earner who wasn't a little on the slow side. Market forces have forced even
MacDonalds and other fast food purveyors to pay above the minimum to be able to get worthwhile help.
I don't need to look to any other country as a model. I think the U.S. is doing quite well managing the Labor Market (discounting the Illegal alien
question) and the decline in Union Membership is a consequence of natural market forces. It will continue to decline, although it will stabilize at
some point because of the huge numbers of Union members working for the Governments.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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MrBill has an opinion. I've followed this thread and read strong opinions from him but in no way did I see anything out of line to any objective
reasoning.
Is a conservative point of view intolerable here?
The man speaks with a good backup of fact and he is attacked with an onslaught of repulsion.
If you want to rebut the man, rebut what he says.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Mr Bill-------I worked for the Feds for 30 years
-------but was never Union, nor did anybody approach me to be Union. I was with the Dept. of Interior, and Dept. of Agriculture.
No Union folks in my shop, at least as far as I knew, so some of us "Govt. folks" did remained un-tainted and really did work for a living.
But I am sure there are more and more Union Members within the Govt., like you say.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Barry ----
Do any federal agencies have union contracts? I dont know but, it's hard for me to visualize the CIA going on strike . Also, cant see a union
organizer wandering around the Dept. of Interior handing out pamphlets and shaking hands.
Again ... I dont know.
Dennis
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Dennis------
----I honestly don't know. I was TOTALLY unaware of any Union activities in my area while I was with Interior (1967 to 1996) tho I vaguely remember
that there were rumors that the Washington Office had some Union activity.
I was a seasonal Fire Fighter for USFS (Dept. of Ag.) for a year, or so prior to going "permanent" with the Feds in 1967------again no Union activity
that I was aware of.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
MrBill has an opinion. I've followed this thread and read strong opinions from him but in no way did I see anything out of line to any objective
reasoning.
Is a conservative point of view intolerable here?
The man speaks with a good backup of fact and he is attacked with an onslaught of repulsion.
If you want to rebut the man, rebut what he says. |
Nice to point out Dennis...
All political sides are welcome, as long as you don't get too political on the 'Baja' boards! The 'Off Topic' board is where that garbage goes.
I have been chastised for my much 'milder' conservative views (and I only posted to counter some far left Dibble, usually)!
Once you get to 'know' the various Nomads, and their leanings you will discover that arguing politics (no matter how much logic or common sense is
given) has no affect (or is that effect?)!
I have good friends who are liberal and conservative, but I don't have a clue why they think the way they do! The point is, it doesn't matter in the
long run! What does matter is the GOOD FRIENDS part.
Let Baja Nomad be a place where good friends are made!
Join us Nov. 4 in Tijuana rather you be right, left, center, above or below the political spectrum... You just gotta LOVE BAJA!
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