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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3821
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Someone in Baja, please contact INAH and ask them if they are aware of the archaeological site that LB has found.
CENTRO INAH BAJA CALIFORNIA SUR
AV. 16 DE SEPTIEMBRE No. 152
LA PAZ, BAJA CALIFORNIA SUR (MÉXICO) CP 23000
TEL-FAX 91 (112) 2 73 89
INAH - SAN IGNACIO, B.C.S.
EN EL COMPLEJO MISIONAL
TEL-FAX 91 (115) 4 02 22
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64834
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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INAH? If INAH can't keep a farmer from plowing over the mission visiting station of San Juan de Dios way out in nowhere land, how can you hope they
will stop a resort bulldozer near a city on the Sea of Cortes?
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
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Probably what is very likely to happen is........A dozen or so Citti board members along with some CITI Group CEO.s will form some small umbrella
corparations in the U.S.(tax write offs)and get title to some x-amount of houses for free, and sell them later, in two years time or so, and then
pocket big sums of tax free cash to deposit in some other foreign acct. in their own personal name, that is not tracable.The right Mexican politico's
will also get a small pay-off as well. Happens all the time. You should not be to surprised!! Its called " Win -Win". Is anybody latley kept track of
the Salinas familys personal bank accts. in Switzerland. You may be shocked!! But in the mean time...... What will happen to the working people( Who
will build schools and hospitals?) and the landscape and the water quality in the Sea Of Cortes. A nice new seweage plant anyone??
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tehag
Super Nomad
Posts: 1248
Registered: 1-8-2005
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LB
Not an apologist for LB nor a pro-development person, but I know some of what folks on this board are saying is incorrect. Venting against developers
without a sound basis is not going to add any credibility to the overall arguments.
The archaeologists were here from Mexico as part of the approval process for the LB EIS. They tented an area and sifted for evidence of human
habitation. Several months later, LB has still not started dozing that site.
The trees in boxes are natives. In fact, they were boxed in situ, then removed to a large holding area, and are awaiting replanting within LB. Some of
them don't look too happy, but earlier in the project vegetation was simply leveled, so maybe some change for the better.
The "rescued animals" do exist, have been removed by a crew of 6 full-time rescuers, and are being liberated in an undisclosed location well out of
the path of any immediate earth works.
I don't know where the failure of adobe block thing got started, but as of 8:30 this morning there was still a lot of it being laid. The post and beam
building style doesn't much care what you fill the spaces with, the structure isn't sound by virtue of that component. Look at a glass walled
skyscraper. Is the glass doing much to hold it up?
Water, power, sewage plants are in LB's plans. The cart is in front of the horse on these in my opinion, but maybe the addition of Citi bucks will
make some of it come true in the not too distant future.
LB is still talking a more reasonable game than anything coming from other mega developers whose feet are firmly in the Loreto door. Ensenada Blanca,
San Bruno, Pto Escondido are moving forward without anything like LB's sustainable rhetoric, if that is all it is.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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It is their civic duty to mitigate problems
Especially since they really opened the can of worms. All the focus and controversy afforded by the the bulk of attention to them surely eased the
effort of expanding by other resorts and deveopments.
But then, they(LBC) wanted all the publicity. The spin givin has been changed. Reduced, compiled, condensed and repackaged into digestable morsels
that the public and officials can chew on easily.
It is a common approach methinks. When you think about it maybe Grogan et al said and promised waaaaaay too much in their selling schpiel.(sp?)
They should have anticipated the crisis created by brine discharge, the fresh water table intrusion, the fragile ecosystem(s) and the pollution
generated by thousands upon thousands of people.
You've made some good observations Tehag.
This project and I suppose the others you mention unavoidably follow the learning curve of building a city in this environment, maybe that will mean
a more objective and realistic approach to building "sustainable" projects.
With a focus on WHAT can be tolerated not by just the land and sea but that of the citizens of Loreto and their needs.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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I've been involved in many, many meetings involving wildlife mitigation, and this effort to relocate animals whose habitat has been destroyed has no
value as mitigation, and would not be considered as mitigation by any rational authority. Unspoiled areas already host wildlife at their carrying
capacity; adding other individuals has no benefit, and could even be harmful. I suspect the effort really has nothing to do with the reptiles and
everything to do with salesmanship and propaganda. More greenwash.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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That's right Don mo greenwash! Since "mitigate" simply means:
"to make less severe or intense"
they will only have to do little to accomplish this. Because they're sooooooo politically correct(not) they use and display their so-called
mitigation proudly. I see you use the word specifically for animals. The environment that supports all species of plants and animals can never be
replaced by a man-made desert or oasis. Well, maybe in a thousand years, or less depending on when that huge hurricane hits Loreto.
Does planting trees, harbouring wild animals and sifting for remains fall under the umbrella of mitigation? You be the judge.
Personally I've seen developments forced to create alternate wetlands and habitat for species displaced by coastal development. In fact right here in
Oregon. I was less than impressed. It's pretty clear that man cannot replicate Mother Nature well. Zoos, parks and man-made wildlife habitats come to
mind.
Think of the possibilities tho with enlisting Citigroups. Finger pointing and shifting of blame are expected benefits along with more professional
spin-doctors.
I agree Don, mitigate schmitigate. Just keep yer friggin' dozers away!
Would you not agree that IT IS their duty to clean up their mess. I have a hard time believing that their efforts wth the animals will amout to a can
of frijoles.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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tehag
Super Nomad
Posts: 1248
Registered: 1-8-2005
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LB
I didn't say animal rescue was any kind of mitigation, I simply stated that it is occurring. As with the other points in my post, I'm not trying to
paint any rosy picture, just an accurate one. LB will not go away. Development, either. Ranting from afar and misstating facts are not going to help
any actual efforts to encourage real mitigation or responsible planning and developing.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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hang in there tehag both sides need to be seen not that your taking sides but facts are facts and bs is bs
jerry and judi
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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and the bs is????
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tehag
Ranting from afar and misstating facts are not going to help any actual efforts to encourage real mitigation or responsible planning and developing.
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You paint with a very broad, tarred brush here.
edit: not Paula, this is Don Alley on Paula's laptop, logging in "from afar" in Long Beach Calif.
[Edited on 3-11-2007 by Paula]
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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sharks everything that is not a fact is b.s; i didnt point any fingers but theres enoff b.s. on both sides to go around
i have a place in loreto and just spent 6 and a half weeks there i do not like whats happening to loreto but i cant blame the people who want to live
there
i too think that the hugh developments are going to cause a lot of problems not just for them selves but loreto too
i allso heard all kinds of stuff by the gringos that are b.s its like a snowball down hill just adding bs at it goes bigger and better stories one day
its B.S. the next day its a fact to build more B.S. on
jerry and judi
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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That's right Jerry, there's tons of the stuff around Baja. I just returned a load I received lately. Stinky stuff. Gringos should be more careful about the doodoo they spread around. Especially if it compromises your/our
existence while being guests in Mexico.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Worldtraveller
Junior Nomad
Posts: 65
Registered: 11-26-2004
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The following web site http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/water/
contains a thoughtful article that discusses the negatives and positives of desalination (even hinting that a body like the Sea of Cortes would be
different than open ocean). It discusses both the salt brine and the energy consumption issues as well as other matters discussed in this thread.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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what?? no naaa sayers here tearing this artical apart??
seems theres always been plenty of people on here readdy to flood this place with negative statments
ok ill start if they will do it?? it can work. now stand back and watch perhaps bite your tounge??
jerry and judi
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3821
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"Venting against developers without a sound basis is not going to add any credibility to the overall arguments."
Your impugning the "sound basis" without sound basis is feckless.
What everyone has been ranting from afar about is LB"s LACK OF PLANNING, half truths, and promises without substance.
E.g., "By the end of the project we will harvest or produce more potable water than we use."
When is the end of the project? In what manner will they harvest or produce potable water?
Do they have discrete plans?
What they have proven so far, by actions and words, is that they intend to use up the water in aquifer until it is absolutely necessary to start
thinking about producing water in another way. But they don't know what, what, why, how, how much, or how many with any certainty and/or approvals.
Therefore, their promise is a lie. They say they will build 6,000 residences for the total project. Does the building of the 6,000th house mark the
"end of the project"? And when there are 1,000 homes built, 2,000 homes built, what water source is there? Is the water source "sustainable" now?
Why not? Will the water source be "sustainable" when 2,000 homes are built - before the "end of the project"? They say now it will take about 15
years to build the 6,000 homes. They say they've sold 700 homes, and built - how many? - 150 now? They've been building now for 3 years and they've
sold 700 homes in 3 years - that leaves 5,300 more homes to sell. If they sell homes at the same pace as the last 3 years, it would take about 24
years to sell them all, not to mention the amount of time it would take to build them all. So when is the "end of the project?" 15 years? 24 years?
If they NEVER sell 6,000 homes, is the "end of the project" never going to occur? At what point in the project's ongoing construction, will it become
"sustainable"? Using the water in the aquifer is not sustainable. That is a fact. And what about the factual scientific reports on the water
situation. They certainly do not comport with LB's promises. What are LB's answers to these reports? Where is the planning to make their promise
not a lie? So how is "By the end of the project we will harvest or produce more potable water than we use" not a misstatement, i.e., a lie. Tell me.
And that's just the water issue.
Relocating lizards is a joke: "The "rescued animals" do exist, have been removed by a crew of 6 full-time rescuers, and are being liberated in an
undisclosed location well out of the path of any immediate earth works." You gotta be on the LB staff to make a statement like that.
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bajabeachbabe
Nomad
Posts: 150
Registered: 9-11-2006
Location: Loreto,
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Mood: Loving life
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LB Water
I found this "interesting" letter buried on LB website:
http://www.loretobay.com/pop/files/pdf/loretobaywaterreport....
FONATUR seems to think there is no water problem!
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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if i was loreto bay i wouldnt say anything eather it only breeds trouble for them they know there are people out there at will cause them problems any
way they can
speculators and sidwalk lawers are cheap and so is there advice
if this project was as sqeeky clean as the white night it would be picked apart
dont get me wrong im not in favor of loreto becoming a tourist trap or develped to the max
anything that is said by a developer is going to be misconstruded good bad or ugly so why would they explane to anyone what?? how?? when? or where
to anyone?? they seemed to have explaned good enoff to about 700 people
and taken in a different perspective they can sell them faster then they can built them so there behind?? so their using less water the time span will
change on every on every project who knows what will happen next year much less the next 15-24 tecnolagy will fill in most gaps
fear of the unknown drives most negative reactions
and i plan on living a good part of my life in loreto not in loretobay
jerry and judi
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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You would love East LA.
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
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Things Are Just Never As They Seem!!!........Beachbabe--That Fonatur document is not at all accurate or true!! It was common knowledge around Loreto a
number of years ago, among all locals and snowbirds that a deveolper paid off a Fonatur Official a sum of fifty thousand U.S. dollars to fabricate a
mirage of bogus paper work and documents of all sorts, to make every thing look accecptable environmentaly, for the area. The key word here is( and
this is what L.B. C. is selling) Sustainablity.... It is a misnomer!!!........All of the Baja Peninsula is a desert. The area on the eastside of The
Sierra De La Gigantia from Loreto to San Evaristo is the absolute driest part of this desert. It recieves only a scant 2 to 5 inches of rainfall a
year, and it generaly only comes in the summertime.This type of harsh desert climate can only support a very few species. And in places, extreemly
small pockets of human population, along with some snakes, lizzards, a small limited native bird poulation, and lots of scorpions. Bottom Line.....The
water just does not exist... period..!!The existing underground aquifiers will deplete rapidly.As supposed geoligists/hydroligists/ engineers are
never correct in allof their asessments and calculations. Their errors in results they will readily admit to. Last summer in the North part,of
Northwest Washington state which is surrounded by rain forest, and recieves over 100 inches of rainfall a year,three small towns went dry(their
aquaifers dried up) and water had to be supplied by tanker truck. If I was going to buy any real estate or a house from Loreto Bay Co. I would see if
I could include in the purcase contract a clause,that they would agree to pay me, a sum of $100 U.S. each day I was un able to have use of my
domestic water supply. Ask yourself?.....Do you think they would agree? 
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