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Capt. George
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Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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not everyone is physically capable of walking to their particular piece of paradise...........how about those far out beaches that are not locked up
by beach front homes? Should they just stay unvisited/unused?
The Federal Zone: would it be a problem for you to have people camp, fish and party (without quads) in front of your beach home? Answer that
question, truthfully, and you and I will realize where you're coming from.
Stop the caca de baca....this whole debate has to do with satisfying your own selfish wants.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
not everyone is physically capable of walking to their particular piece of paradise...........how about those far out beaches that are not locked up
by beach front homes? Should they just stay unvisited/unused?
The Federal Zone: would it be a problem for you to have people camp, fish and party (without quads) in front of your beach home? Answer that
question, truthfully, and you and I will realize where you're coming from.
Stop the caca de baca....this whole debate has to do with satisfying your own selfish wants. |
Now there's the rub Capt.! The question you pose, if answered honestly, really defines the 2 sides of this issue. I dare say anyone who dumps 6 or 7
figures on a beach front home would rather not see anyone other than friends and family camped out in front of their property.
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oxxo
Banned
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Capt. GeorgeI will continue to drive on the beaches either until the day I die or they lock me away in nut house.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by viabaja
I will continue to ride the beaches in my jeep and quads with a cerveza in my left hand!! |
Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life on this planet....only Neandertahls.
Capt. Kirk, out
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
And what about the local Mexican fishermen who launch their boats with trucks on the beach? They are breaking the law too. Do they deserve to have
their vehicles conficated because a gringo doesn't want to see them on the beach? |
The local Mexican fishermen of the old-fishing-pueblo of Todos Santos belong to one of two co-ops that have permits to operate their trucks on the
beach to launch and beach their boats. Nobody else is allowed to launch their boat from that beach. The general public drives out to Punto Lobos when
the panga fleets return to buy fresh catch right off the boats. The Punto Lobos beach is also a popular swimming and picnicking spot for locals and
foreigners alike.
Besides the towing trucks that work the pangas and the trucks that ferry fishermen and supplies, everybody else parks on the lot before the dune.
Everybody waks over the dune to the surf line. -- Amir
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Nothing like stating outright lies....The ONLY Mexicans or gringos that park above are the ones with cars that cannot go through the soft sand.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Cardon Man
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Location: Thetis Bank
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
Nothing like stating outright lies....The ONLY Mexicans or gringos that park above are the ones with cars that cannot go through the soft sand.
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Good point amigo!! ain't that the truth. 
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64848
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
| Quote: | | Originally posted by Capt. GeorgeI will continue to drive on the beaches either until the day I die or they lock me away in nut house.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by viabaja
I will continue to ride the beaches in my jeep and quads with a cerveza in my left hand!! |
Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life on this planet....only Neandertahls.
Capt. Kirk, out |
oxxo and others, there are beaches in Baja that you have not or likely never will see that are not like the ones you know... They are just sand, no
people, no turtle eggs, and no critters are killed if a 4WD or ATV is on the beach.
Irresponsible behavior like the kind you experienced or imagine is not condoned by myself or most of the others that have commented here, I would bet.
As I said before, beach driving should not be allowed on populated beaches where there is a chance of people getting hurt...
Racing, noise, etc. is not what we do on the beach either... I drive on the beach to get to my camp site as there is no other way and I have camped
there since 1977... and it is on a coastline that has been driven on for more years than I have.
Others who have posted here drive or ride ATVs on the beach to get to a fishing spot or to see sea shells or to just enjoy the beauty. Not loud or
fast (if there even were other people to hear)...
Intellegence is using your brains and making a decision for yourself that harms nobody else. Do you guys smoke pot? Because that's illegal too! Sould
there be a thread with us non pot smokers lecturing users?
Have you ever driven faster than the posted 80 kph speed limit, or any speed lilmit? Again, that's illegal... but if you harmed no one else were you
not just enjoying some freedom?
Each year more laws are created and each year we lose a little more freedom... Baja is a place that we go to enjoy the freedom, the outdoors, and life
in general... Don't make Baja the same as the U.S. or Canada with laws controlling every move we make!
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1626
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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I love it! ATV’s crush turtle shells but walking is okay! Have you ever wondered why they are called flotation tires? Have you ever noticed that
footprints left in the sand are always deeper than ATV tracks?
The basis of this whole argument is money! Unfortunately those who have it make the rules. Always have, always will. It doesn’t matter if it is in
Baja or the US. It is simple supply and demand. The more rare or exclusive something is, the greater its value by those who covet such things and
the greater profit that can be realized by those who have such things. I live in a National Forest and we have our own “Save Our Forest Association”.
They cite every environmental reason in the world to block any new development. If honesty still had any value today they would simply rename their
organization as the “I Got Mine Association”. Not one of them that belong to this group has offered to demolish their own house so the property can
be returned to its natural state.
I love these people that claim to move to Baja because it is so different from home and then set about to make it exactly like home. Please just be
honest. You are nothing more than an opportunist that is looking to maximize the return on your investment. I am not even suggesting that this is a
bad thing, just don’t try to BS the rest of us about your concern for the environment.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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Right On
| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
I love it! ATV’s crush turtle shells but walking is okay! Have you ever wondered why they are called flotation tires? Have you ever noticed that
footprints left in the sand are always deeper than ATV tracks?
The basis of this whole argument is money! Unfortunately those who have it make the rules. Always have, always will. It doesn’t matter if it is in
Baja or the US. It is simple supply and demand. The more rare or exclusive something is, the greater its value by those who covet such things and
the greater profit that can be realized by those who have such
things. I live in a National Forest and we have our own “Save Our Forest Association”. They cite every environmental reason in the world to block
any new development. If honesty still had any value today they would simply rename their organization as the “I Got Mine Association”. Not one of
them that belong to this group has offered to demolish their own house so the property can be returned to its natural state.
I love these people that claim to move to Baja because it is so different from home and then set about to make it exactly like home. Please just be
honest. You are nothing more than an opportunist that is looking to maximize the return on your investment. I am not even suggesting that this is a
bad thing, just don’t try to BS the rest of us about your concern for the environment. |
The Got-Miners...ain't they something special! Montauk Point NY, Narragansett RI, Newport RI, Block Island, Nantuckett, The Vineyard, Cape Cod and
it's National Seashore (Recreation Area) not National Park, Florida Keys National Marine Sactuary, Save the Key Deer.........got enough money, build
anywhere you want.....mangrove, don't trim unlless you have the money for an impact fee, then just rip them all out and build your "Trophy Home"
The Got-Miners" how about the "Bull-chitters"?
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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oxxo, stay in your gated community lifestyle, please stay out of Baja. I lost more brain cells in New York City fires then you possess.........
Neanderthal indeed.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Whoa this IS a can of gusanos for sure....IMHO it's all about consideration...not the law. One of the things I love about it here is that "laws" are
flexible and only enforced if it becomes a problem. Then you get to explain the situation, talk about it...maybe grovel a bit if necessary, apologize
or whatever then work it out. For example....drinking...I mean steady pounding cervezas with loud music and a few guys staggering around laughing,
shouting and peeing....is not legal on a city street. But it is done all the time here...usually in front of places that arent' occupied such as was
the case with our new beach house...but now with guests there, it is just not acceptable anymore so t;he police go and ask them to move their party
down the beach a bit where there aren't any houses...they don't get busted...just readjusted...seems fair to me. Now, I love our beaches because they
are quiet, very few people, no quads either. I remember one day in San Rouqe I was so annoyed when a large group of campers arrived and unoaded their
ATV's and began zooming up and down and doing doughnuts on the beach...that sucked big time. I don't mind the fishermen that drive on the beach to get
home to avoid the washboard road...they come and go slowly and don't race up and down all day...there are several paths and roads for ATV.s and would
be better if they stick to those or at least be mindful of the folks enjoying the beach. It's all about respect, and not being a pain in the trasero
of course. I would love to have a quad to get to San Roque and back with less gas so I can't say I hate those noisy things but if you have em....por
favor please be smart and considerate. Oh by the way, we have a PROFEPA guy here in our village who does drive around alot and enforce the law...real
nice guy though and very reasonable.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Well, I for one have, just went along with what has been happening and took my chances....Now as I see them grab more and more(30 meters back...100
yards...give me a break) now it is time to kick some butt the other way...Thank you Gru-kid, now I am actively searching for ways and means to defeat
you...Don't hummmm to loud I am right behind you. Stay as unreasonable as you are and it will be easy to recruit defenders of RIGHTS.
Anyone that claims gringos did not participate in this law banning vehicles on beaches are liers.
Being good stewards of the earth is one thing...Most of you are just JOKES.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Whoa this IS a can of gusanos for sure....IMHO it's all about consideration...not the law. One of the things I love about it here is that "laws" are
flexible and only enforced if it becomes a problem. Then you get to explain the situation, talk about it...maybe grovel a bit if necessary, apologize
or whatever then work it out. For example....drinking...I mean steady pounding cervezas with loud music and a few guys staggering around laughing,
shouting and peeing....is not legal on a city street. But it is done all the time here...usually in front of places that arent' occupied such as was
the case with our new beach house...but now with guests there, it is just not acceptable anymore so t;he police go and ask them to move their party
down the beach a bit where there aren't any houses...they don't get busted...just readjusted...seems fair to me. Now, I love our beaches because they
are quiet, very few people, no quads either. I remember one day in San Rouqe I was so annoyed when a large group of campers arrived and unoaded their
ATV's and began zooming up and down and doing doughnuts on the beach...that sucked big time. I don't mind the fishermen that drive on the beach to get
home to avoid the washboard road...they come and go slowly and don't race up and down all day...there are several paths and roads for ATV.s and would
be better if they stick to those or at least be mindful of the folks enjoying the beach. It's all about respect, and not being a pain in the trasero
of course. I would love to have a quad to get to San Roque and back with less gas so I can't say I hate those noisy things but if you have em....por
favor please be smart and considerate. Oh by the way, we have a PROFEPA guy here in our village who does drive around alot and enforce the law...real
nice guy though and very reasonable. |
Shari...I am totally with you..
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Now that this has gotten this far, I would like to suggest we find out how many people would sign a request to PROFEPA (or who can permit this)for a
annual permit to use ATV's to fish the coast as the east coast (US) does.
No racing
No disturbing people on the beach
No riding during turtle season
Just get to your fishing spot and back...
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
Now that this has gotten this far, I would like to suggest we find out how many people would sign a request to PROFEPA (or who can permit this)for a
annual permit to use ATV's to fish the coast as the east coast (US) does.
No racing
No disturbing people on the beach
No riding during turtle season
Just get to your fishing spot and back... |
I'm all for that idea.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Shari, You pretty much expressed my feelings about this issue. Thanks.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
Shari, You pretty much expressed my feelings about this issue.
Thanks. |
Since her views seem to me to be moderate and compromising, as do mine, your "pretty much" leaves a lot of room to be wrong.
Care to elaborate
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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and what "fisherman" does not feel this way?
bureaucratic bullchit pushed by the Got-Miners/Enviro-Wackos......
Permits and corresponding fines when the beach is abused.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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elaborate? "Pretty much" is a term of expression. It means, as far as I know, not totally, but more or less. Now more or less could mean a lot of
things. More, to my knowledge, means "additionally". Less, if my understanding
is correct, means to a smaller extent. Some folks would be happy to see a fully
paved road the full length of the Baja peninsula, within 100yrds of the tide line. Of course, they'd have to have some sort of paths, driveways,
ramps, or rails that would allow easy access through the last 100yrds. 
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
In some areas they provide access for forest crews, fire crews and timber cutting operations. A great deal of the property is actually owned by private individuals or corporations. Public usage is allowed, only restriction is "no motorized vehicles". |
I could go on and on....Let us take this one. What are you saying
1) my state can charge me to use my ATV off road....
2) I should not use it off road
Is that what you mean by "more or less"....or "pretty much"
Your response, meant to evade, is child like at best. No one has even suggested anything near what you stated.
elaborate? "Pretty much" is a term of expression. It means, as far as I know, not totally, but more or less. Now more or less could mean a lot
of things. More, to my knowledge, means "additionally". Less, if my understanding is correct, means to a smaller extent. Some folks would be happy to
see a fully paved road the full length of the Baja peninsula, within 100yrds of the tide line. Of course, they'd have to have some sort of paths,
driveways, ramps, or rails that would allow easy access through the last 100yrds.
Try not to be silly this time. Do you agree fishermen should be giving permits with the enforcement of common decency and sense???
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10546
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Shari had some very good comments on this topic. I tend to agree with those.
Dave, your first comments on this were way out of line (wishing injury on ATV riders). I really hope you don't think like that for real. If you do I
think a whole lot less of you.
BTW, this topic (ATV's on the beach) set the record for most posts on the San Carlos, Sonora board (http://sancarlosmx.mywowbb.com/forum1/2699-1.html).
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