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LOSARIPES
Nomad
Posts: 283
Registered: 8-14-2008
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If it impacts the plants, it impacts the ocean. If it impacts the ocean,it impacts the planet, you and us all. Even though "bulldozing" may be
necessary in some cases, it should be done carefully and with lots of consideration.
Those with the power to destroy (and build) know that,
but the almighty dollar tends to blind many so called ecologists and earth watchdogs.
They'll get away with it...... in spite of Ensenada residents cry.
Aripes
God bless America
and Baja tambien
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3822
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MOIKA - I wish you and your fellow citizens success in reining in this development. Such devastation for the benefit of a relative few. Let us know
if there's something we (on your side) can do.
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Moika
Newbie
Posts: 11
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http://futurocostaensenada.wordpress.com/
Summary: Public Hearing on “Punta Brava” development proposal for Punta Banda, Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico December 16, 2008
A public hearing was held in Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico on December 16th, 2008, by request of a group of local citizens concerned about the
impact of a proposed 265-acre project to be located on the Punta Banda peninsula that forms the Bay of Ensenada. The citizens exercised their legal
right by asking SEMARNAT (Mexico’s national environmental agency) to hold a public hearing for purposes of allowing the public to question the
environmental impact report presented by the transnational corporation “The Flagship Group”.
Over a hundred people attended the December 16th meeting, in which the “Punta Brava” project was described by the promoters, followed by 22
presentations given by members of the public, these being divided fairly evenly between those for and against the project (see
acta-reunion-publica-punta-brava). Afterwards there was an extensive session of questions, answers and comments.
Of particular significance was the presence of members of the Baja California branch of the Advisory Board for Sustainable Development, which
assembled a list of 18 recommendations following the meeting (see consultapbanda-resumenconsejoconsultivo).
Most of the favorable comments came from neighbors and ejido members from the lands surrounding the proposed development area, from individuals and
organizations of the business sector, and a small number of environmentalists and researchers. They concentrated on the following positive social and
economic impacts that this project could have for the Municipality of Ensenada:
a) the generation of employment during construction and operation;
b) the increase in land values in and around the Punta Banda area;
c) the promotion of a higher economic class of tourists through the backing of golf celebrity “Tiger” Woods.
In general these presentations dismissed the environmental and economic risks associated with the project, including the discharge of salt sludge
resulting from the production of potable water for the golf course. They also questioned the cultural importance of Punta Banda as part of Baja
California’s cultural heritage, and they implied that the area has already been ecologically damaged, so that from this point of view the negative
impact of the project would be inconsequential.
Citizens concerned about the environment, academic researchers and specialists made most of the presentations opposing the project. They pointed out
that the project, and in particular the golf course, would have the following impacts:
a) it would destroy one of the most important areas of archaeological remains on the Pacific coast of Baja California;
b) it would ruin a natural landscape of great beauty that should remain accessible to all citizens, and could become a major attraction providing
substantial economic and social benefits for Ensenada;
c) it would impede the average Mexican citizen’s access to the coast, violating a fundamental constitutional right;
d) it would limit the ability of local university researchers and students to continue with geological, ecological, biological, marine science and
archaeological research studies in the area,
e) it is incompatible with the conservation of the endangered coastal scrub plant and animal ecosystems of the terrestrial zone, and represents a
danger for the marine environment, in particular due to the large amounts of salt sludge discharge;
f) it minimizes the area’s geological risks, given that it is located on top of the Agua Blanca fault, which although it has not recently been active,
is known to be one of the major faults of the region;
g) it creates a significant moral dilemma and a potential political problem in our arid region, given that the amount of water to be consumed by the
golf course alone could supply enough water for 40,000 residents;
h) it would have significant impacts in terms of global warming, emitting more than 8000 tons of CO2 per year in order to produce enough water for the
golf course.
They pointed out that the effects of the salt sludge cannot be dismissed, given that there is no study modeling the stationary distribution of salt
sludge over an extensive bay area, using the project discharge parameters, physical and boundary conditions appropriate for the area and time of year
and a statistically significant number of discharge points, in order to determine which would imply the least risk. They also argued that the positive
economic and social impacts would be less than projected, since the estimated investment presented by the developers seems excessively high, a large
percentage of the expenses would be made outside the municipality, the jobs created would be few and poorly paid, and the wealthy tourists that it
hopes to attract would probably only stay in the country for a brief time.
Below you can see some of the presentations made at the public hearing. All are opposed to the project; we would like to invite papers from those in
favor of the project. Copies of the meeting minutes and a letter asking for further information from the developer, both from SEMARNAT, are also
included. All these are in Spanish.
Joaquín Bohigas. “El costo del agua en el proyecto Punta Brava”. consultapbanda-jbohigas
Gabriel Camacho. “Observaciones al proyecto Punta Brava”. obspbanda-gcamacho
Moisés Santos. “Omisiones de los aspectos culturales y estéticos del proyecto Punta Brava”. consultapbanda-msantos
Miguel Wilken Robertson. “10,000 años de historia ambiental. Un recurso para el futuro”. consultapbanda-mwilken
SEMARNAT. Letter to developer asking for information. solicitud-info-adicional-punta-brava
Finally, we invite you to participate in the poll that we are taking on this blog (on the right) which asks the following question: Given the
arguments presented by the developers, as well as the opinions that have been presented in favor and against the “Punta Brava” project, do you think
that this will be a benefit for the future of Ensenada?
Moika.
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Moika
Newbie
Posts: 11
Registered: 10-17-2008
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
MOIKA - I wish you and your fellow citizens success in reining in this development. Such devastation for the benefit of a relative few. Let us know
if there's something we (on your side) can do. |
Thank you!! Just visit this blog: http://futurocostaensenada.wordpress.com/
and participate with your opinions.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3822
Registered: 2-9-2004
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I WILL - thanks so much for the update and your participation.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Even the Arabs stopped building islands with cooled sand. This project can't still be viable on an economic level- let alone the current security
situations. Tiger should pull the plug and come back in a decade.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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You go Moika!!
| Quote: | Originally posted by Moika
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
MOIKA - I wish you and your fellow citizens success in reining in this development. Such devastation for the benefit of a relative few. Let us know
if there's something we (on your side) can do. |
Thank you!! Just visit this blog: http://futurocostaensenada.wordpress.com/
and participate with your opinions. |
The public stands to lose more than gain in terms of quality of life. The area is special to Ensenada folks and tourists alike. Another elitist
coastal golf course IS NOT necessary.
I think a day of protests, awareness, speeches and fiestas with music are all in order. The people should show their solidarity..Maybe even a march.
Yes they can! Make a big deal put of it!!
Gringos can show up to watch and play.
Every Nomad should go vote on that blog as well.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
| Quote: | Originally posted by Moika
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
MOIKA - I wish you and your fellow citizens success in reining in this development. Such devastation for the benefit of a relative few. Let us know
if there's something we (on your side) can do. |
Thank you!! Just visit this blog: http://futurocostaensenada.wordpress.com/
and participate with your opinions. |
The public stands to lose more than gain in terms of quality of life. The area is special to Ensenada folks and tourists alike. Another elitist
coastal golf course IS NOT necessary.
I think a day of protests, awareness, speeches and fiestas with music are all in order. The people should show their solidarity..Maybe even a march.
Yes they can! Make a big deal put of it!!
Gringos can show up to watch and play.
Every Nomad should go vote on that blog as well. |
Ecomonics and security issues have resolved baja over development concerns for the next few years at least.
Don't make Tiger throw something at you from his helicopter when he does his fly-over.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja The public stands to lose more than gain in terms of quality of life. The area is special to Ensenada folks
and tourists alike. Another elitist coastal golf course IS NOT necessary.
I think a day of protests, awareness, speeches and fiestas with music are all in order. The people should show their solidarity..Maybe even a march.
Yes they can! Make a big deal put of it!!
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A meeting with SEMARNAT produced a whole 100 people, half of which opposed the project. Except for activists most folks don't care. Even if they did
the government would ignore them. This is a dead issue.
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Moika
Newbie
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Registered: 10-17-2008
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Not for me... I´m a citizen not a servant. It is more important to me to take responsibility and speak up than the final result...
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Moika
Newbie
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http://www.mexicopremiere.com/?p=786
Tiger Woods To Design Northern Baja Golf Course
Posted on October 18, 2008
David Simmonds
Tiger Woods, the best golfer ever, is getting into the golf course design business. Maybe this bad knee of his is worse than reported and he sees his
playing days coming to a close. Many of golf’s greats have become designers, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer and Greg Norman being three of the biggest
that come to mind. I remember about 15 years ago when Nicklaus had plans to build a new course just outside the small town of Tepoztlan, south of
Mexico City. Tepoztlan is a very spiritual place with a long pre-Hispanic history and the birthplace of revoltionary hero Emiliano Zapata. Many local
people still speak Nuhuatl and they didn’t like the idea of old Jack coming in and messing with their sacred land, even though the earth moving
equipment was in place and ready to roll. Wisely, Jack pulled out and the course was never built, and had it been I doubt that it would still be there
today. You don’t mess with the ancestors of Zapata.
So now Tiger wants to build a course and a multi-million dollar home development in Punta Banda, down on the peninsula south of Ensenada where the
famous blow-hole is. I damn near drowned there one time during a winter storm when a rogue wave swept me off the rocks and sucked me out to see in
dead winter when the water temp was about 58 degrees. It took me 1 1/2 hours of swimming against the current before a guy in a Zodiac miraculously
came and pulled me out, surely saving my life. I couldn’t swim straight in because the huge waves and the rocks would have killed me for sure. So I
know something about the area. And I tell you it is stunning just the way it is. A big green golf course is not what it needs and these plans need to
be reconsidered.
I have adapted to the idea that from the border to Ensenada will all be built on one day, but south of there needs to be preserved. And now with the
world economic crisis in the mix I’m not sure the timing is right anyway. This could easily be one the those relics that get half built when the money
disappears for one reason or another, but the environmental damage would be done. I don’t imagine that Tiger’s own money is financing the project, but
whoever it is must be savvy enough to know that Northern Baja has some security problems these days and with a few trillion dollars lost in the stock
market crash, the demand may no longer be there for this millionaire’s-club retreat.
My advice to Tiger: go buy a Caribbean island closer to your Florida home and build whatever you want there. Leave Punta Banda as it is. Please.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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"Golf course? We don't need no stinking golf course!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ
[Edited on 2-5-2009 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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bajabound2005
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2760
Registered: 10-15-2005
Location: Punta Banda, BCN
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Mood: words cannot describe...
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How many different threads does this same topic have to be beaten to death on?
Friends don't let friends drink white zinfandel.
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fishbuck
Banned
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How many are there?
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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It will happen. Maybe not on their present timetable, but it will happen. despite the current economic downturn, there are just enough (maybe too
many) people with money who will support and sustain this project. Half a hundred people at a protest doesn't cut it. Unfortunately.
[Edited on 2-5-2009 by Bajahowodd]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
How many are there? |
Maybe lots of them but, what the heck......nobody throws away a new shirt after only wearing it once.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Moika
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
MOIKA - I wish you and your fellow citizens success in reining in this development. Such devastation for the benefit of a relative few. Let us know
if there's something we (on your side) can do. |
Thank you!! Just visit this blog: http://futurocostaensenada.wordpress.com/
and participate with your opinions. |
thank you Moika so will I.
you know it would be a very good idea for us to publish public hearings on these projects. very informative to the citizens who they will directly
affect, for the potential buyers, for groups in other locales to use as example and inspiration, and even the curious. perhaps each thread could list
the development and the date and subject of the hearing and discussion.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3822
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Use the website above and vote NO. There is also a link to add your comments. Please provide input against this project.
Arguments against:
1. Irreparably disturbs the environment - there is no "sensitive" way to build a golf course on that relatively small area. With the residences and
other structures, the land would have to be almost totally scraped clear of all vegetation.
2. The output from the water treatment plant will foul the ocean. In other desalination plants where the discharge empties into the ocean
(California and Florida), it detrimentally affects the marine life.
3. This is a private project and will not generate money for Ensenada or the local region. There will be no tournaments; the public cannot play at
this course; the public will not check into any hotel there and go to local restaurants, etc. It will benefit only a relative few - most likely not
even Mexican citizens.
4. There will be a few service jobs created, but the loss of undisturbed coastline, detrimental effects to marine life, and the entire area closed to
the public, will be irreparable and not worth the tradeoff.
5. There is no assurance the project will be maintained in perpetuity. Once the project is built, oversight will provided by homeowners assn. and by
contract for golf course maintenance and other amenities - all paid for by the homeowners or by private contract - and subject to dissolution. There
is no city government support of this development, as with successful golf courses like Torrey Pines, CA or Pebble Beach, CA.
6. The required fertilizer and water consumption of the golf course makes no sense in a desert region, and where the fertilizer must drain to the
ocean adding more pollutants. Other landscaping may require pesticides - regardless, all pollutants and possible sewage can only run off into the
ocean.
7. There are archaeological remains which have not been studied, and will be forever destroyed - thus losing valuable analysis and knowledge that
should be interwoven with the known body of archaeology for the region.
8. The land should not be developed as with so much of the Baja CA coastline - especially in the north - but preserved for future generations. This
project is not borne of necessity - but a wasteful and selfish use of the land by gringos.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3822
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Have voted, sent comments, sent the public hearing comments and Simmonds article to two Ensenada-based news websites and one Golf magazine. I'm just
getting started.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Early and often
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Use the website above and vote NO. |
Vote all you want. It won't make a damn bit of difference. But as Moika says:
| Quote: | Originally posted by Moika
It is more important to me to take responsibility and speak up than the final result... |
BTW, I especially enjoyed these comments:
It will benefit only a relative few - most likely not even Mexican citizens.
This project is not borne of necessity - but a wasteful and selfish use of the land by gringos.
Nice. 
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