| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6 |
Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Shari
We once had an indoor rabbit that would drink red wine to the point of intoxication if you left a wine glass on the floor, which we were want to do
when we were young.
Iflyfish
|
|
|
dao45
Junior Nomad
Posts: 93
Registered: 5-21-2007
Member Is Offline
|
|
where exactly did you see these mushrooms?And if possible send me the deers address or phone number
|
|
|
Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
|
|
Shari--interesting observation. I recall a book written some years ago by a man who had done quite a bit of research on animals feeding habits--he'd
found that their "drug use" was rather common. For example--cattle would browse on poppies when food was scarce, ostensibly to get a little
medication to ease the hunger pangs.
|
|
|
k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Where will the Cartels go? Many will become legitimate businessmen.
Iflyfish |
I suspect many already have, particularly in real estate development along the coast between TJ and Ensenada and in Cabo. Don't forget, this has been
going on for decades. Several years ago I was speaking with an old time "real estate agent" in Rosarito about how to transfer funds for a purchase. He
chuckled, and said he has seen suitcases full of cash.
Also, scattered about TJ are huge, walled in, elaborate houses. It's hard to imagine legitimate ways in TJ to get the money to build them.
Probably, the really rich retired traffickers are living in Coronado, La Jolla, and Rancho Santa Fe, members of the finest San Diego country clubs.
[Edited on 10-21-2008 by k-rico]
|
|
|
Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
As a young man I assisted a researcher who was placing electrodes in the pleasure centers of rats (electrode implantation self stimulation studies).
The rats would hit a bar to stimulate that area of the brain. Those little suckers would eschew food, water and sex for a hit of juice to that area of
the brain. Some would stimulate to the point of death. Sound familiar?
Ever heard of loco weed? As a kid in North Dakota I saw cattle drunker than lords on the stuff.
Check this out: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Animals-on-Drugs-41500.shtml
A brief Google search of the terms “animals drugs” will reveal a wealth of information, stories etc. K tal animal? Sorry for the poor spelling.
Iflyfish
|
|
|
k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
|
|
"placing electrodes in the pleasure centers"
Now there's a legal alternative that would put the cartels out of business.
Did the researcher get past animal studies?
What's he doing these days? 
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Sometines if not always we tend to forget>
"Guns do not Kill People_People Kill People""
Brugs do not Kill People- People Taking Drugs by Choice and selection Kill themselves and Others".
|
|
|
vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by dao45
where exactly did you see these mushrooms?And if possible send me the deers address or phone number |
Why ??
Trying to change your moniker to doa08  
|
|
|
Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
k-rico
Actually there are neurofeedback proceedures that provide an opportunity to experience transcendant states with out drugs. This is called the
alpha/theta crossover state and it is a remarkable experience. This proceedure has been used successfully with Alcoholics who report "religious
awakening" experiences. See studies on the Dina (Hopi) and Neurofeedback. After this experience the relapse rate was found to be very low in this
study.
You have regressed Skeet. I really thought you were interested in learning something new.
Mushrooms don't kill deer, deer kill mushrooms and kildeer kill bugs!
I certainly hope I am not killed by my Lovastatin! I will watch the blood pressure meds though, thanks for the heads up.
Iflyfish
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
uflyfish:
O. K.. What is new??
It is a FACT that a Human Being makes a Choice to take Drugs.
It is not the Drugs!
There is something missing in the Physic of any person who"Thinks" he/or she needs drugs to get along in this World.
The Durgs do not Jump up and force the Mouth open, nor can the needle go in with out the Pressure.
You all seem to put the blame on the Drug. Someone has to make a consious decesion to take drugs just as the person needs to do to pick up a Gun and
shoot someone..
Skeet
|
|
|
Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Skeet
You are of course correct when you say “It is a FACT that a Human Being makes a Choice to take Drugs”. This thread is about a proposed change in
Public Policy as to how to address the problem of open warfare on our streets that stems from the business of drug manufacture, distribution, use and
abuse. One of the points I have been trying to make, and perhaps not doing so well at it, is that human beings have always taken drugs, or altered
their consciousness and they always well. It would appear that this tendency is also cross species, which is where we are in the discussion at this
point. I believe it is important to recognize this FACT when considering how to address this very important issue.
If I were to extrapolate on your statement that the root cause of this problem is that Human Beings make a Choice to take Drugs I would then need to
address the problem that we now face by somehow changing the choice that people are making. This would of course lead one to consider approaches that
address the issue of Choice or how to influence people to make a different choice i.e. “Just Say No”. Research has shown clearly that abstinence
policies do not work. The best way to avoid unwanted pregnancies is to increase the years of education for women. It appears that the more education
women have, the fewer children they have and the more likely they are to use effective birth control. We will NEVER be successful at stopping teen
experimentation with sex. We have however decreased the number of pregnancies by better educating the population. We will NEVER eliminate drug use by
abstinence only policies. How about a “War on Teenage Sex”? How about locking up all those horny teens, and you to boot for your escapades behind that
barn? These problems are best addressed by multifaceted approaches that deal with a number of issues at the same time and education and access to
legitimate income and identity had better be a part of the mix.
I am not advocating for drug use and well understand that addiction is a very real and devastating phenomenon. I know people who have died using drugs
and know families and communities devastated by drug use. I only hope that the poor dear eating the amanita does not run into a hunter and confuse
them with the goddess.
I am not blaming the DRUG! I am acknowledging the fact that human beings have always and will always use drugs. The issue is how best to address the
problems that we are presented with by this fact.
Now that human beings have guns there will always be those who shoot others with them. The challenge for all of us is how to craft public policy so
that the least harm is done by the fact that human beings have and use guns. We will never be successful in banning guns, though there are other
countries where guns are used i.e. Canada, just to our north, who has a much lower incidence of deaths resulting from the use of guns.
Try an experiment, or continue the one you propose, apply your logic to guns. Imagine the government starting a "War on Guns"...where would this lead?
Would blaming all gun owners for the abuse of some gun owners be appropriate? Should we condemn all gun owners and say we cannot understand their
Neanderthal tendencies to shoot fellow sentient beings? Should we lock them all up? Should we celebrate when they shoot each other? Should we condemn
all gun owners as immoral and a danger to society?
I wonder also if it would be possible, and I know it’s a stretch, for you to acknowledge a good point when it is made. This is of course optional, but
I think useful in a genuine discussion of differences.
Thanks,
Iflyfish
|
|
|
gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Its not necessary to speculate about where or how drug trade persists. The facts are documented, reported, published and admitted though it seems many
people are unwilling to accept the truth that the CIA and their counterparts are drug trafficers and they are not your friends. Perhaps its easy to
become confused by the many falsehoods published and repeated in combination with truths.
First, lets keep in mind some basic facts:
Drug traffic is among the largest business in the world. Big business is not ignored by big businessmen. Who are the largest businesses?
Drug trafficking requires the transfer of large sums of money, large shipments of drugs such as cocaine from Columbia, Heroine from Afghanistan and
pharmaceutical materials. Drug trafficking requires large distribution networks to every city in the world. All of these are traceable and documented.
Reports are common which prosecute some offenders.
Drugs are a huge burden on the population, drug abuse costs are high.
Drug policing programs are huge and growing fast, our prison population from drug offenses is massive and growing. Prisons are hugely profitable
businesses. Now with 1:100 in jail we have 1 of every 100 people in the US in slave labor prison, and the numbers are growing.
Now, everyone one of us know about Iran-Contra where the CIA under H.W. Bush was caught, again, and admitted they trafficed drugs, cocaine and created
crack cocaine which they flooded markets with such as LA. Yet, many of those convicted are in the whitehouse today including Oli North. These events
didn't stop or end there as the same people are still in power doing the same thing? If you have any questions about Iran-contra look at the old news
reports from La Times and there are videos of the agents themselves.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1076
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/aug2001/cont-a01.shtml
1) CIA traffics huge shipments of drugs via of a network of planes on pre-approved routes by high level government figures. Reports of trafficking
through Mean, AK under Clinton administration while Governor and through Florida under Gov Bush, Texas under G.W. Bush and through border states
under tunnels, shipping, containers via routes through government check points.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10...
http://www.madcowprod.com/09102008.html
2) Large banks legally launder money. Corporate Board of Directors members are not required to document large transfers while each of us do. Banks
such as HSBC, Santander, BOA are huge in this capacity.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4159/is_/ai_n1275916...
http://www.bobsguide.com/guide/news/2008/Feb/5/HSBC's_money-laundering_trial_begins.html
So, please to the natsayers who place blame on poor people in bad neighborhoods and small time distribution networks for the drug sales, I respect
your right to your viewpoint however the facts speak for themselves as do the agents involved.
Drugs are generated, marketed and flooded to markets where they do the most damage and gain the most profit by those in the power to do so. The
criminals are not primarily poor weak-minded people, the criminals are those businesses who run the distribution and profit from it and we know who
they are, the question is are you willing to stand up and speak to the issue and criticize those in power who profit? I doubt it.
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Uflyfish:
Very well said and Taken.
Now Gnukid you are doing the very thing that some of those Weak-minded Berlerley Graduates have been doing for the past 20 years,
You are blameing Big Business, the CIA, and anyone who works hard and makes a Buck for the USE OF DRUGS!!
nO MATTER HOW uNLEARNED YOU ARE, YOU NEED TO GET AWAY FROM THE bLAME gAME AND LOOK AT THE lOGICAL fACTS.
CAUSE AND -EFFECT- Demand and Supply
I know that the Drug Problem will never be completely solved:
I know that All people do not grow up to make the same decesions in a given situtation.
Why is it that certain Humans cannot "Control their Desires and keep their Passion with due Bounds'??
Why???---If it feels Good , Do It.??
|
|
|
Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
I have hear estimates that marijuana is the second largest agricultural crop in California, Oregon, Washington and British Columbia. That is
staggering and speaks to the very issues that gnukid addresses. This is BIG BUSINESS, very big business.
It would appear that the issue Calderon faces is whether or not to continue the very expensive and dangerous game of whack a mole and escalate into a
police state, in hard economic times, or try a new approach to the problem. I am impressed that he would look at another way to approach this problem.
If he does legalize I hope he will also require the state to take over quality control, distribution and taxation as well as provide extensive
resources for treatment, education and job training/work placement for people having problems with these drugs. The problems of addiction will not go
away with legalization, but over time other social approaches like those mentioned above may mitigate againt use and abuse.
Iflyfish
|
|
|
Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Skeet
"Very well said and Taken." Thank you. I appreciate your saying that. Reasonable people can disagree, the quality of relationships depend upon how
they disagree.
"Why is it that certain Humans cannot "Control their Desires and keep their Passion with due Bounds'? Why???---If it feels Good , Do It.??"
I believe that this is just human nature. I believe that both nature and nurture are involved in the equation; some are better put together than
others around dealing with their impulses. For an interesting read I would recommend to anyone The Curious Incident of The Dog in the Night. It is a
book on Autism and is the account of a young man with Autism. You will be amazed at his perspective and it will surely be different than yours. That
is nature. Some people are born without Conscience and some people lose that Conscience due to developmental experiences. These people see you as an
object to use to their pleasure or to destroy if you get in their way and are called Sociopath and Psychopath. For a study of the Psychopath I would
recommend the biography of Carl Chessman, San Francisco's Red Light Killer. Carl was bounced about from foster home to foster home and as one point
gave up and decided to get revenge. Rape is after all not really a sex crime, but a crime of rage and Carl was full of rage.
It is very hard to predict who will kill another with a gun. We are all capable of killing, the issue seems to have to do with our nature i.e.
impulsiveness, history of abuse etc. and on context, most domestic killings are done as “crimes of passion”. It would seem that there is no single
explanation as to why one would kill and another would not. Behavior is multiply determines and must be understood on a case by case basis. No one
size fits all and that can be frustrating as we look for simple answers to complex problems. I believe that you can apply the same thinking to the
question you are asking about drug use. It sounds like this is the issue that you are having a hard time getting your head around. I too have pondered
this. Why could I have drank like a fish in my youth and pick it up and put it down for long periods in my life and seem to have suffered no ill
effects? Why could I smoke pot in my youth and not become addicted? I have seen others who have used less than I did who got strung out and died. Go
figure. Some races apparently do not have the enzymes to metabolize alcohol effectively and to them alcohol is a poison, why not for me? Luck of the
draw, very good luck indeed. I feel fortunate as should you that you did not become addicted to what you smoked behind the barn or to the beer you had
in Korea……many did not have your good fortune.
Now Hagen Dass Frozen Coffee Yogurt, there is another matter for me. I can eat an entire carton at a sitting, and often do. Others can ration their
intake and I admire them their restraint, some don’t even like Hagen Das Frozen Coffee Yogurt. Imagine that if you can!.
Differences Skeet, just differences.
By the way, gnukid is pointing out the significant role that business plays in the manufacture and distribution of this product. It is important to
recognize that this is big business if one is to develop strategies to confront the problem. It may be that the vested interests of the people engaged
in this business is such that they will not want change and will do whatever they can to protect their product and markets from competition. If one
focuses only on the perceived “character flaws” of the user, it can be a herring that takes on off the trail of the real issue and that issue is how
to stop the war that is occurring on our streets over this product. I think that thinking like a business man can be very useful in thinking about
what to do about this business. C Wright Mills, the Sociologist once said that Social Change occurs when “personal problems become public issues”,
there is great truth in that. We may be at that point now in our history. A very good example of this is how we now view Alcoholism as a disease
rather than as a moral flaw. This has provided us with a valuable perspective from which to develop intervention strategies and social programs to
address the needs of the population who suffer from this terminal illness. Words are important, they have meaning and underlie our understanding and
thinking about problems. If we start out with the wrong premise, we will always reach the wrong conclusion. If we view the problem of drug abuse and
addiction as a moral problem then we will miss the larger picture of the context of its use and abuse and the possible points of intervention into
these dynamics.
My hat is off to Mexico for considering this bold strategy, I hope they think it through and don't do this either by halfs or on the fly.
Iflyfish
|
|
|
gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
To compare the victims in this offense to the perps is absurd.
First off, desperate people are easy targets for highly addictive drugs which are being targeted, designed and created with new variations in a highly
sophisticated manner. It's not pot or mushrooms, qualudes or mescaline or any of the things some of you heard of in the 60's though those were also
distributed in the same network. Today, its methamphetamine, crack cocaine, cocaine, crystal meth, heroine, pcp and variations which may even be mixed
and sold to unaware prospects (youth) in marijauna or hand rolled tobacco cigarettes to trick people into starting and then wanting more.
Go ahead and deny that the CIA and its foreign counterparts working with banks have targeted an assault on civilians in the form of a long running
drug distribution program, or say its a big unintended mistake, or deny that creates a massive worldwide market for cash investment, black market for
drugs, stolen goods, weapons and now more and more prisons and slave labor camps, or deny that it affects our economy and the price of everything
which naturally increases with increased cash flow.
Drug trade affects your 401k and the inflation index of your social security checks.
To reduce drug trade means all of your numbers would go down by at least 10%. Are you willing to give up 10-20% of the value of your assets to end the
false drug war. I imagine most would say no.
Most people are too afraid to admit the truth which is laid out in front of them daily and accept that the drug trafficker isn't a weak vagrant person
on their street. The drug assault is coordinated by a vast network of wealthy agents, all of whom are well paid and well known, connected and powerful
who benefit heavily from drug trade in a purposely illegal manner.
There is a choice whether to make drugs a crime which incentivizes drug trade or to end the system of criminalizing drug which expands the black
market, prison labor, prisons and drug trade by leaps and bounds, and at an increasingly exponential level.
The drug market is so ubiquitous, corporations and power brokers must currently participate in laundering, accept investment and even invest in
futures in the market or find themselves limited for future investment. You are in or out, but you can't be both. As bankers and special agents today,
if you refuse to particiipate or play the game you are targeted and dismissed, usually with charges or attempt on your life as we know from so many
public stories.
http://www.dunwalke.com/4_Narco_Dollars.htm
This goes all the way from private funds to public funds in gov work such as HUD which had apparently trillion in slush funds, or this recent 700
billion- trillion bailout (where is the money spent?), or the floating defense budget.
Do you recall when Rumsfeld said 2.3 trillion was unaccounted in the DoD in 2001?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMjmo
or
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article5085.html
or 3.3 trillion missing from the treasury in 2004
http://www.rense.com/general70/trill.htm
Its much easier to imagine drugs come from lil juanito down the street who sells to his lazy uncle.
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
I must say that this has been the most enlighting experience I have had on this Board!
Makes you Think: Here I am a 77 year old gesser with Multiple Experiences able to ask Questions and get some very good response.
I do the same thing with DairyQueen Blizzards; But after this Triple Bypass I can now go by a Dairy Queen and not STop!!
For you Youngsters: Always check with your Doctor if you start getting Week in your Body and between the Legs. It might save your Life!!
Uflyfish: Are we really discussing "Survival of the Fitest'??
|
|
|
Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Skeet,
Gotta love the internet....so much to learn....like the Library of Congress at our finger tips.
I can relate to the Dairy Queen addiction, make mine Oreo please, large!
Thanks for the heads up on the blood flow issues, it pays to know from someone who knows.
I am glad I had some time over the past couple of days to engage in this dialogue, it has gotten my synapses snappin and my digits diggin at the old
keyboard.
The fittest do survive, it is just hard to identify which variation will ultimately be the most equiped to survive. I have an idea for an invention.
That would be a thumb brace for those using blackberries and other devices that force one to use their thumbs for typing....got to create carpal
tunnel one would think....now if we adapt over time to this can you imaging what the future thumb will look like?
gnu-kid
You ain't just making that stuff up. I appreciate the documentation. You neglected to mention lil Juanito's address.....u2u please (humor folks, weak
attempt at humor)
|
|
|
gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
When I was young my Mom would say, "look it up", now I say to her, "look it up" though I understand its hard (disappointing) to read this stuff,
especially in this context (jaunito).
But, as we become capable of critical discussion (we did it) and empirical thinking we are empowered and unable to be corrupted and coerced. And, the
sooner that we embrace the truth the sooner we can overcome enabling these paradigms of our own destruction.
Now is our time, power to the people.
|
|
|
dao45
Junior Nomad
Posts: 93
Registered: 5-21-2007
Member Is Offline
|
|
Would one of you please tell the deer to call me?
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
