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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
Michael - you and Bob and Airmech all put it they way it needs to be said.
well done!!
the AZ flying sams all take off this morning for Baja. i wonder how many will be delayed. hell, i wonder how many decided NOT to go this month. 
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only illegal nefarious characters will cancel their trip due to prospect of minor search and minor delay. really, i can't see how a small delay for
search is an inconvenience when crossing an international border. people traveling to a drug war zone should accept the reality.
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beercan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 4-3-2005
Location: North of da Bear
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Mood: happy to be in Baja
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last time I read the Constitution---
The opening states---"Secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" ....then the 4th amendment is attached.
I somehow recall that the "authorities" work for us the Citizens!
During the formulation period there was a comment period and if my memory serves this old body, there were about 12,000 comments from "us citizens'
and about 99% were against the "authorities" proposal. Why then are we still saying that we have a 'representative" government when non-elected sh!ts
are making LAW.
| Quote: | by crisco
Perhaps the authorities are taking the attitude
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* libs, all about choice until you choose different
* B. Hussein Obama - an Empty Suit for Empty Minds.
* Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy!
* Arguing facts & truth to libs is like bringing a warm smile to a gun fight.
* Lets win the War on Terror
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: | Originally posted by beercan
The opening states---"Secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" ....then the 4th amendment is attached.
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hey beercan,
the border patrol is generally exempt from 4th amendment when searching travelers across borders. funny that you insist on building the wall and
spending billions and billions of dollars on border protection, and you want all of the foreigners serached, but get all upset when it inconveniences
you and a small group of air travelers 
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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Bit of a difference between legal US Citizens wishing to leave the ole US of A and illegals trying to cross the border without documentation.
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Bit of a difference between legal US Citizens wishing to leave the ole US of A and illegals trying to cross the border without documentation.
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travelers are travelers. wealthy people in planes are not more special than poor people on foot.
plane travelers are not special, kenny boy, despite their (your?) feeling of being elite relative to foot, car and boat travelers.
lots of smuggling occurs via planes, and plane travelers should be subject to search just like any traveler, perhaps planes are even more prone to
smuggling and there is good reason to search planes more than foot, car and boat travelers. perhaps not.
but people saying they will stay home rather than be inspected are cry baby prima donnas.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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Goat,
I guess you just don't see the difference between
Legal US citizens wishing to travel outside their country
and
Illegal immigrants trying to break our laws and cross into the US from a foreign country.
BTW no "elitist" here I travel on the ground into Baja not by air.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3507
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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Off we go.... but first....
| Quote: | Originally posted by steekers
The most important point ALL of you non-pilots are missing is that you and your traveling buddies are not (at the present time) required to tell the
govt. what time and date you are going to Baja!!!!!!! You are not required to go on-line and list all the passengers, their passport numbers, dates of
birth, etc. and THEN wait for an email to clear you to go!!!
Get it now???
As pilots, we are not elitist, just like to enjoy seeing Baja from the air as well as from the ground. |
''The most important point ALL of you non-pilots are missing.... As pilots, we are not elitist.''
Sure reads like elitism to me.
Just a reminder, a Pilot's license is a privilege. If the FAA authorizes the CBP to search private planes filing a flight plan to Mexico, that
probably isn't a problem for most pilots -- just those who think they have a handle on national security and know better than those hired to enforce
public safety.
Border Patrol Continues to Hassle Us Pilots!!
With a subject line like this, I'm guessing that this post is meant to address ''pilot'' only Nomads, and, looking for sympathy.
Straighten up and fly right!
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by beercan
The opening states---"Secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" ....then the 4th amendment is attached.
I somehow recall that the "authorities" work for us the Citizens!
During the formulation period there was a comment period and if my memory serves this old body, there were about 12,000 comments from "us citizens'
and about 99% were against the "authorities" proposal. Why then are we still saying that we have a 'representative" government when non-elected sh!ts
are making LAW.
| Quote: | by crisco
Perhaps the authorities are taking the attitude
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Is the fact that you didn't quote my entire statement because you cannot deny the concise and obvious logic.
"Perhaps the authorities are taking the attitude that it doesn't make any difference who is in the airplane, the fact is that a small aircraft is
being flown into and out of an area that is a hotbed for smuggling and therefore they are going to search it."
Will you guys stop thinking this is all about YOU.
It's about small aircraft flying in and out of a violent place that is part of the smuggling route.
Do they search planes flying to Peoria?
It's not about YOU and it's not about illegal aliens.
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Goat,
I guess you just don't see the difference between
Legal US citizens wishing to travel outside their country
and
Illegal immigrants trying to break our laws and cross into the US from a foreign country.
BTW no "elitist" here I travel on the ground into Baja not by air. |
kenny boy, you suggest that upper middle class white gringo pilot flying with hidden cash should be held above poor mexican laborer looking for an
opportunity.
all are suspect in the eyes of the law, but only the under dog gets my sympathy.
when you cross borders, all people should be subject to same level of suspicion.
btw, the pilots on this board all sound like whiners. aren't there any non-cry-baby pilots on this board?
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3507
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Now you're talking
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
btw, the pilots on this board all sound like whiners. aren't there any non-cry-baby pilots on this board? |
Been a Private Pilot since '91. Current as of last month. Fly Boys are a privileged bunch.
Pilot joke:
What are the 2 things you never want to hear a pilot say?
1) Where's that noise coming from?
2) OH SH!T!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Let us remind ourselves that it is a well-known documented fact that none of these pilots in question have been demonstrated to be guilty of any crime
while there are many thousands of cases of open investigations into smuggling of contraband by officers, CIA, CBP and police? And many guilty
verdicts.
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newkid,
ia greee with you that many in law enforcement are corrupt, but don't agree with you that all the pilots are saints. probably a bunch of the pilots
are criminals, and as a consequence need to search all pilots periodically, even the prima donnas and saints.
but you post about corrupt law enforcement is a reminder that you should always watch your back when law enforcement shows up -- they are not your
friends, and many are psychopaths that will screw with you. very few in law enforcement recognize or respect civil rights (they mostly consider
civili rights an annoying liberal anachronism, ala dick cheney)
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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the bottom line is being "allowed" to leave the country is not REALLY what's happening. you are being tracked in and out of the country. "they" don't
want any unknown planes flying over the borders at all hours of the day and night.
you may call it losing freedom. the devil is in the details. when "they" start requiring me to tell "them" when i'm leaving to drive to work i'll
understand, but until then piloting a plane is a priveledge (sp?) and i find it within the narrow confines of reality that "they" might want to ask
?'s before you take-off.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
newkid,
ia greee with you that many in law enforcement are corrupt, but don't agree with you that all the pilots are saints. probably a bunch of the pilots
are criminals, and as a consequence need to search all pilots periodically, even the prima donnas and saints.
but you post about corrupt law enforcement is a reminder that you should always watch your back when law enforcement shows up -- they are not your
friends, and many are psychopaths that will screw with you. very few in law enforcement recognize or respect civil rights (they mostly consider
civili rights an annoying liberal anachronism, ala dick cheney) |
The issue is simple, the target of suspicion oof smuggling or terrorism is not the general civil population. There is no preponderance of evidence to
suggest that the general population is smuggling contraband while it is well documented repeatedly that the CIA, BP and local Police are involved.
Certainly every member of congress knows this is the case, as do the leaders of every country, as do most citizens, the only ones to suggest otherwise
are those that seek to increase policing of lawful individuals and distract from the issue that we have a serious long term issue. The only real
threat to the drug smuggling is the legalization of drugs which would impact the drug smuggling, arms and money laundering not to mention police and
prison budgets.
The enemy of this massive economy based on black contraband operations are legal efforts to formalize these economies or reduce them. The enemy is not
the flying SAMS nor the general population of tourists to Baja, that assertion is a transparent self-serving lie made by those who benefit and profit
from the illegal trade, the drug wars and the war on terror.
Do a search on drug and arms smuggling. Look at the results of reports worldwide across all media. There is a long list of cases of CIA, BP, and local
Police cases of corruption as well as many documented cases where there was no prosecution such as the case of Barry Seal.
The evidence exists that the CIA is a largely responsible for drugs and weapons smuggling and has been doing so for long long time throughout the
world. Among the long list of cases are the well known Iran Contra case which was discovered by accident when Eugene Hasenfus' plane crashed. The CIA
admitted their were largely responsible for flooding LA with crack cocaine. These same figures and operations apparently continue unabated.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/03/us/man-killed-in-mexican-c...
http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/iran-contra-hearings
These truths of contraband smuggling are in the common knowledge-base of most citizens.
I am certainly not against people making profits legally, I support each person's desire to work and earn a living legally. I do believe that the
misdirection of these important resources of our tax dollars away from the issue and instead toward the false concept that aggressive harassment of
innocent civilians is somehow required, beneficial or helpful is beyond my or any reasonable person's ability to accept. It is a transparent lie.
I would encourage the general prosecution of all the crimes we know of to the full extent of the law including internal cases of government sponsored
contraband smuggling while we maintain our respect for the constitutional law as we have all sworn to uphold and protect.
Obviously I fear the real threat to our well being is the mishandling of our taxes to further corruption and the erosion of the rule of law. This is
also the general consensus and is clear to practically everyone.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Oh well! So you've got to submit to an extra level of security checks. You fly across the border, land where ever you want. No check points.  Boo Hoo! Cry me a river.
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beercan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 4-3-2005
Location: North of da Bear
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy to be in Baja
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I see one hyprocrite chime in ----
I guess that if you really are a pilot, then your certificate was "handed" to you . Your time and training was free and you didn't lift a finger to
earn anything !
Sounding like a librul, I"feel" that I earned the "privilege"or right to fly my airplane . Look at my post about our Constitution and the "pursuit of
happiness".
The first documented cases of this governmental harassment were with drawn and pointed weapons. Not one case since the start of this harassment has
produced any violations to my knowledge.
Boats and vehicles (private) are next. "Your papers please "----
| Quote: | by leeky
Sure reads like elitism to me.
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* libs, all about choice until you choose different
* B. Hussein Obama - an Empty Suit for Empty Minds.
* Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy!
* Arguing facts & truth to libs is like bringing a warm smile to a gun fight.
* Lets win the War on Terror
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beercan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 4-3-2005
Location: North of da Bear
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy to be in Baja
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"I didn't do anything when they came for my neighbor, cause I drove a vehicle and didn't fly a elite airplane"...........
andd I didn't know about the "relocation camps"
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/Political-oppositi...
[Print] [Email]
Political opposition is not a hate crime
By: Examiner Editorials
July 10, 2009
Attorney General Eric Holder talks with Deputy Attorney General for Legislative affairs Judith Applebaum on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, June
25, 2009, prior to his testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on hate crimes legislation. (AP Photo/Harry Hamburg)
What's wrong with this picture? The federal government spends billions on homeland security, but apparently can't stop foreigners from illegally
crossing the border or overstaying their visas. The Obama administration wants to bring violent terrorists captured overseas to the mainland and close
the military detention center at Guantanamo Bay. Yet in the latest bizarre twist, legislation quietly making its way through Congress would give the
White House power to categorize political opponents as hate groups and even send Americans to detention centers on abandoned military bases.
Rep. Alcee Hastings - the impeached Florida judge Nancy Pelosi tried to install as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee until her own party
members rebelled - introduced an amendment to the defense authorization bill that gives Attorney General Eric Holder sole discretion to label groups
that oppose government policy on guns, abortion, immigration, states' rights, or a host of other issues. In a June 25 speech on the House floor, Rep.
Trent Franks, R-AZ, blasted the idea: "This sounds an alarm for many of us because of the recent shocking and offensive report released by the
Department of Homeland Security which labeled, arguably, a majority of Americans as 'extremists.'"
Another Hastings bill (HR 645) authorizes $360 million in 2009 and 2010 to set up "not fewer than six national emergency centers on military
installations" capable of housing "a large number of individuals affected by an emergency or major disaster." But Section 2 (b) 4 allows the Secretary
of Homeland Security to use the camps "to meet other appropriate needs" - none of which are specified. This is the kind of blank check that Congress
should never, ever sign.
It's not paranoid to be extremely wary of legislation that would give two unelected government officials power to legally declare someone a "domestic
terrorist" and send them to a government-run camp. After all, the federal government has done exactly this sort of thing before. During World War II,
more than 120,000 law-abiding Japanese Americans were rounded up by the government and confined for four years in ten internment camps surrounded by
barbed wire and armed guards. Joy Kogawa chronicled the trauma her family experienced firsthand under FDR's executive order: "Families were made to
move in two hours. Abandoned everything, leaving pets and possessions at gun point..."
It was wrong then, and it would be doubly wrong now should members of Congress somehow fail to learn from past mistakes.
* libs, all about choice until you choose different
* B. Hussein Obama - an Empty Suit for Empty Minds.
* Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy!
* Arguing facts & truth to libs is like bringing a warm smile to a gun fight.
* Lets win the War on Terror
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by beercan
The first documented cases of this governmental harassment were with drawn and pointed weapons. Not one case since the start of this harassment has
produced any violations to my knowledge.
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Well then maybe they should inspect more airplanes. They're falling out of the sky.
Drugs and cash found on crashed plane.
[Edited on 7-10-2009 by k-rico]
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3507
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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Is there a problem, Officer? Yes, I thought it was my Constitutional Right to fly in Federal Airways
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Lee admits he knows the weight of million dollars in a sack, he pilots planes and was previously or is still an officer or agent of the US government?
Hypocrite. |
I didn't write ''sack.'' I wrote that a medium size suitcase weighing 20 pounds would hold $1 Million Dollars (in $100 bills, of course). Or, the
size of a 15'' CRT TV. NOT uncommon knowledge in law enforcement.
Hypocrite?
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beercan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 4-3-2005
Location: North of da Bear
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy to be in Baja
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Your knowledge of "controlled and uncontrolled
airspace" is lacking ---you may fly across this entire country without "permission or any contact with the feds. No inspections as you cross state
lines, or permits required.No flight plans are necessary.
| Quote: | by leeky
Is there a problem, Officer? Yes, I thought it was my Constitutional Right to fly in Federal Airways
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* libs, all about choice until you choose different
* B. Hussein Obama - an Empty Suit for Empty Minds.
* Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy!
* Arguing facts & truth to libs is like bringing a warm smile to a gun fight.
* Lets win the War on Terror
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Online
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
You know full well this is discussion is about the US 4th amendment rights of the individual pilots who have been subjected to aggressive action with
guns drawn pointed at the lawful citizens under no suspicion and the question of unlawful search and seizure without 'probable cause'.
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hey newkid,
the cbp is in many ways expempt from 4th amend when it comes to inspecting border crossers.
why are you defending cry baby pilots? in this case the pilots are clearly wrong and simply whining due to their false sense of entitlement.
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