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Taco de Baja
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Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
DK: your fight against the inconvenient truth of science reminds me of catholic church persecution of Galileo, albeit a bit more mild. In the long
run, the catholic church finally came around to see the light so to speak.
[Edited on 11-23-2009 by mtgoat666] |
Like those "truth seeking scientists" at East Anglia's Climate Research Unit, who discuss in emails how to make the data come out just the way they
want it to?... Yep, that's really scientific goat... They're as good
as the catholic scientists who came up with the geocentric models to "prove" the earth was the center of everything.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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monoloco
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Just curious Taco. Do you think we can keep spewing co2 and other gases into the atmosphere at the current rate indefinitely without affecting the
climate?
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
Just curious Taco. Do you think we can keep spewing co2 and other gases into the atmosphere at the current rate indefinitely without affecting the
climate? |
Like the way VOLCANOS have for millions/ billions of years???
Funny how okay that is...
You need to trust in Nature, which is FAR greater than man... Since Nature has kept things working here, handling the CO2 without man's help for
billions of years.
Don't get me wrong... I am all for a clean planet, less pollution, and preserving/ conserving natural resources. I just don't trust people who use
fear and have political motives behind this sudden dash to hysteria about the false science of man-made climate change. Showing that movie of
inconvenient lies to little kids was just about as low as they could get.
It's all about money and power... a big shake down of the United States and an attempt to lower our lifstyle to that of Uganda to appease the guilt
liberals feel about America's greatness and prosperity. Right now, the libs in power are doing all they can to destroy the American economy (increase
spending and raise taxes).
Ronald Reagan inherited a far worse economy from Jimmy Carter in 1981... and through decreased spended and lowering taxes, America rebounded and had
the greatest period of economic prosperityand job creation in history!
People, giving more power to government (surrendering your freedom) is the problem... People who are free to prosper naturally want to grow and
improve themselves and in doing so help others to achieve the things they want.
Man-made climate change is a hoax and just one of the methods the libs use to take away from you, what you have worked so hard for... freedom and
prosperity. The health care bill is another way for the left to gain more power over you.
Have a nice day...
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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My wife and I attended last night a 1 hour showing of a TV Special made jointly in Britian and the USA which debunked amost all the claims that the
movie "An inconvient truth" made-----------it has not been released to the Media Market yet, but soon will, I understand.
What Al Gore has done, and continues to do, is blatantly disgraceful. He may mean well, but that is hard for me to believe that a presumably
sophisticated man could actually believe what he is saying-------but I will give him the benefit of the doubt---------.
Most of what he says is "spin", and the "science" he quotes is obviously prejudiced and totally inconclusive or just plain wrong.
Again I say, even if Al is right (which he isn't) if we do all he wants us to do (destroying economies and millions of people in the process) we can
only alter what is happening by maybe 1%, or 2% at the most. I say it's not worth it and will fight it with my votes, and dialogue, given every
chance I have.
By the way, the Movie Special last night also debunked the banning of DDT, saying we have killed vastly more millions of people in developing nations
by banning DDT than if we had left them to use it------the culprit is Malaria. Most African Nations have thrown out the DDT prohibitions and are now
actively spraying again. But do we hear THAT in the Media????? Noooooooo!!!!!
Barry
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Taco de Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
Just curious Taco. Do you think we can keep spewing co2 and other gases into the atmosphere at the current rate indefinitely without affecting the
climate? |
Maybe, and maybe not. CO2 has continued to increase for the last 10 years, yet global temps have decreased over that period...There really may be NO
link between the two. If the GIGO models were correct the temps should be higher as the GIGO models predicted, they are not. There are too
many other factors at play here. Actually, the whole idea of an easy solution like reducing CO2/methane/CFC’s and everything will be “fixed” is simple
minded.
In fact, the planet is very resilient; the whole idea of a “tipping point of not return” is ludicrous. I’m all for doing good things for the
environment, but scaring people into the environmental movement is plain wrong.
People have also gotten fatter, especially over the last 100 years; is there a link between fat people and CO2? Fat people and temperature changes?
I’ll bet the curves (pun intended) could be manipulated to show a correlation, or maybe no manipulation is even needed.....Can we humans continue to
bloat up without affecting the climate and environment? "Do your part, loose weight and save the planet." Could be the new slogan for the Biggest
Looser.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Skeet/Loreto
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David:
That is one of the best , if not the best words on the so-called global warming that I have read. Thnak You.
Loco; A List of Good marterial that I use for Campfires:
All the Michael Jackson records and DVDS I can find .
All the Rip Rap Music videos and DVDS.
All Photos of Al Gore/George Clooney.
All DOPE.
Skeet
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MrBillM
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Feeding the Fire ?
One has to wonder WHERE Skeeter gets his Campfire Materials.
Is he BUYING all of those things or Stealing them from someone else ? Hard to imagine anyone Donating to him.
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wilderone
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"the whole idea of a “tipping point of not return” is ludicrous."
What's more ludicrous is that once you ultimately know that you've reached a point of no return, it's too late - The Point Of No Return. So if you
think that being forewarned is enough you're deluding yourself.
The point of no return applies to all the species that have gone extinct in the past generation. Grizzly bears in California, pronghorns in Baja,
giant woodpeckers in North Carolina (or wherever they used to be), snook in Mulege, abalone in San Diego, pink dolphin in the Yuma wetlands, all the
flowers, trees and plants that used to thrive in places where there are now mines and cows grazing; the trash lake in the Pacific Ocean that is so big
it cannot be cleaned up -- all of which has occurred in just the past 25 years, and continues with each passing day.
It's all interconnected - and part of the "all" is human beings. We cannot disassociate ourselves from the rest of the living mass on Earth. All
elements must be healthy and have an environment within which to thrive.
Why do you all think that destroying anything on our planet won't have some kind of effect? The point of no return has already impacted bodies of
water that no longer will sustain life of any kind. So many examples of THE POINT OF NO RETURN. Sad to think how irresponsible we stewards of this
planet we've become.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
Just curious Taco. Do you think we can keep spewing co2 and other gases into the atmosphere at the current rate indefinitely without affecting the
climate? |
Like the way VOLCANOS have for millions/ billions of years???
Funny how okay that is...
You need to trust in Nature, which is FAR greater than man... Since Nature has kept things working here, handling the CO2 without man's help for
billions of years.
Don't get me wrong... I am all for a clean planet, less pollution, and preserving/ conserving natural resources. I just don't trust people who use
fear and have political motives behind this sudden dash to hysteria about the false science of man-made climate change. Showing that movie of
inconvenient lies to little kids was just about as low as they could get.
It's all about money and power... a big shake down of the United States and an attempt to lower our lifstyle to that of Uganda to appease the guilt
liberals feel about America's greatness and prosperity. Right now, the libs in power are doing all they can to destroy the American economy (increase
spending and raise taxes).
Ronald Reagan inherited a far worse economy from Jimmy Carter in 1981... and through decreased spended and lowering taxes, America rebounded and had
the greatest period of economic prosperityand job creation in history!
People, giving more power to government (surrendering your freedom) is the problem... People who are free to prosper naturally want to grow and
improve themselves and in doing so help others to achieve the things they want.
Man-made climate change is a hoax and just one of the methods the libs use to take away from you, what you have worked so hard for... freedom and
prosperity. The health care bill is another way for the left to gain more power over you.
Have a nice day... |
A lot of the economic recovery in the 80's was due to the policies of Paul Volker and an
oil glut that reduced the price of petroleum, also the national debt went from 700 billion to almost 3 trillion under Reagan. Oh and by the way, I
asked the question of Taco because I don't know the answer and he seems well versed on the subject, not to push some political agenda.
[Edited on 11-24-2009 by monoloco]
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"the whole idea of a “tipping point of not return” is ludicrous."
What's more ludicrous is that once you ultimately know that you've reached a point of no return, it's too late - The Point Of No Return. So if you
think that being forewarned is enough you're deluding yourself.
The point of no return applies to all the species that have gone extinct in the past generation. Grizzly bears in California, pronghorns in Baja,
giant woodpeckers in North Carolina (or wherever they used to be), snook in Mulege, abalone in San Diego, pink dolphin in the Yuma wetlands, all the
flowers, trees and plants that used to thrive in places where there are now mines and cows grazing; the trash lake in the Pacific Ocean that is so big
it cannot be cleaned up -- all of which has occurred in just the past 25 years, and continues with each passing day.
It's all interconnected - and part of the "all" is human beings. We cannot disassociate ourselves from the rest of the living mass on Earth. All
elements must be healthy and have an environment within which to thrive.
Why do you all think that destroying anything on our planet won't have some kind of effect? The point of no return has already impacted bodies of
water that no longer will sustain life of any kind. So many examples of THE POINT OF NO RETURN. Sad to think how irresponsible we stewards of this
planet we've become. |
Yes, we are the "stewards" of the planet, if there are any actual "stewards", but we are incredibly limited in what "we" can do in that role. Your
"25 years" statement is just not true-----we have been careless for 100's of years, but I agree that the problem is excelerating rapidly due to
population explosion----especially the human trash problem. The human population explosion is very probably not sustainable-----but none of the
manmade answers to this problem are palatable (yet). So, the natural "system" of the earth will probably step in and solve the population problem, as
it always seems to do. That will be an eye-opener!!!
Science gives us a learned estimate of 98% of living creatures on earth have gone extinct over the eons, most without "man's" help. It is hard for me
to support protective legislation to prevent things from happening that we KNOW would reduce man's so-called progress, and in many cases actually harm
mankind by displacing him, when I stronly suspect that it "would have/may have" happened anyway, no matter what "man" does.
I am all for legislation that protects creatures & flora, as long as it does not drastically harm mankind or displace him, or protects creatures
that we KNOW are dangerous to mankind (griz in CA comes to mind), or if there is scientific PROOF that the demise of a species would effect the
ecology (including man) of the planet negatively. Moral speculation does not "cut it" with me when the consequences of well-meaning legislation are
so destructive to mankind progressing, and in some cases even surviving. We (you and me) may be able to weather restrictive legislation, but the
so-called 3rd world can't--------and that is just plain elite and selfish of us in the "developed world", it seems to me. The natural world will
handle it, as it always does, but the results may not be to our liking.
Bottom line-------I think we are mostly helpless in the context of the "big picture", and the unintended consequences of our mandates and
restrictions are often more harmful than helpful, over time.
(and I am an optimist by nature!!!!) 
Barry
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monoloco
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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The bottom line is that no one really knows what the effects of burning fossil fuels will ultimately be. If we render the planet uninhabitable for our
species then we will cease to exist like the millions of other extinct species and the planet will recover.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Loco: I have done a little background on your posts. It seems to me that you "Have hard On'' for big Business,Oil Companies, Rich Folks, Republicans,
Conservatives and just successful folks of all kinds.
Is the above True??
Loco; Please come to the Panhandle of Texas spend one year and tell me "Where is the CO2""?? This is just one of many locations there are Clean and
Pure due to Nature.
I do agree with the Idea that the mass of autos in most Cities. lack of Wind{Nature} causes some problems, but to say that it Changes Climates over
the World is to me Absurd.
We have mass eruptions in all the Seas that we donot even know off.yet as a whole the Sea takes care of these events.
Skeet
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MrBillM
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Nobody
Alive today or for generations to come will be rendered Extinct by Global Warming. We'll all be rendered extinct by age or disease long before the
Earth is in Trouble.
Those who are born hundreds of years from now are on their own.
Besides, the Earth started out as a molten mess before becoming what it is today and it will become whatever it does regardless of our efforts.
Given the way they talk, the Liberal Druids should actually look forward to the day that Mankind is not around to mess things up for the other
species.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Loco: I have done a little background on your posts. It seems to me that you "Have hard On'' for big Business,Oil Companies, Rich Folks, Republicans,
Conservatives and just successful folks of all kinds.
Is the above True??
Loco; Please come to the Panhandle of Texas spend one year and tell me "Where is the CO2""?? This is just one of many locations there are Clean and
Pure due to Nature.
I do agree with the Idea that the mass of autos in most Cities. lack of Wind{Nature} causes some problems, but to say that it Changes Climates over
the World is to me Absurd.
We have mass eruptions in all the Seas that we donot even know off.yet as a whole the Sea takes care of these events.
Skeet |
Skeet, I think you misinterpret me, while I do have a bit of a problem with certain big business ie.
certain large banks and investment companies, I do not have anything against big business and am in fact invested in several of them including oil
companies. I certainly don't have anything against successful people as long as they are ethical. As far as politics goes I do have issues with the
Republican party as well as the Democratic party. I don't think we have been particularly well served by either one recently, and while there are
members of both parties that I admire, I think that a majority of them are either ignorant, self serving, corrupt, inept, greedy, or some combination
of these traits. As far as the climate change debate goes, I am for conserving resources when it is reasonable and achievable, I don't subscribe to
the sky is falling club, but rather think that given time, technology will make us vastly more efficient.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Alive today or for generations to come will be rendered Extinct by Global Warming. We'll all be rendered extinct by age or disease long before the
Earth is in Trouble.
Those who are born hundreds of years from now are on their own.
Besides, the Earth started out as a molten mess before becoming what it is today and it will become whatever it does regardless of our efforts.
Given the way they talk, the Liberal Druids should actually look forward to the day that Mankind is not around to mess things up for the other
species. |
I hate to say I agree with you but that is the point I was making about human extinction. If we
become extinct it will be a mere blip in the universal timeline and of no importance to any other species left. We are just not as big of deal as we
think we are.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Man made global warming is a hoax and has been affirmed... Today's news about the UN scientists that fudged the numbers of lowering temperatures to
make them rising temperatures has been exposed.
It was all about a leftist political agenda and to get funding... What a sham! |
There has been sham science
on both sides of the political spectrum, I suspect, as is usually the case, the truth lies somewhere in the middle but there is nobody who can really
know what effect our actions will ultimately have on the environment. There are just too many variables, hopefully our technologies will lead to more
efficient generation and use of power and a cleaner and more sustainable civilization.
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David K
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Yup... and a meteor will hit us, and all this fuss will be for not!
Have a nice evening, everyone!
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MrBillM
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Liars, Liars
Speaking of all those Global Warming Scientists:
London (Nov 21): Computer hackers have broken into a server at a well-respected climate change research center in Britain and posted hundreds of
private e-mails and documents online — stoking debate over whether some scientists have overstated the case for man-made climate change.
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Speaking of all those Global Warming Scientists:
London (Nov 21): Computer hackers have broken into a server at a well-respected climate change research center in Britain and posted hundreds of
private e-mails and documents online — stoking debate over whether some scientists have overstated the case for man-made climate change.
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Yup turns out that what the scientists said 30+ years ago was right... we are in global cooling! Temps have been dropping steadily... AFTER all that
industrial pollution of the first half of the 20th century!
The world will cool and will warm, REGARDLESS of man's actions... We are far too puney on this giant globe! Volcanos, meteor imapcts and solar
activity are the regulators of global temperatures... always and forever!
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k-rico
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Just for fun
Complete Report
[Edited on 11-25-2009 by k-rico]
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