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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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The insurance companies must have this somewhat figured out by now.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Wont"t work Fishbuck if you are a Taildragger Pilot.I can wind that sucker up and take off and land with out too much damage to the Nose Strut.
Course you have to have some experience with a Taildragger!!
Skeet |
Skeet I am intrigued by this. At first glance it sounds impossible. I have been around general aviation for a long time and have never heard anyone
suggest that this was possible. Can you explain how you would avoid damage to the prop on the landing roll? Would you just hold it off as long as
you could and then just let the strut drop and grind in? Seems like the prop would not have enough clearance and would inevitably hit the ground
while it was still rotating. Have you ever done this?
carpe diem!
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Wont"t work Fishbuck if you are a Taildragger Pilot.I can wind that sucker up and take off and land with out too much damage to the Nose Strut.
Course you have to have some experience with a Taildragger!!
Skeet |
Skeet I am intrigued by this. At first glance it sounds impossible. I have been around general aviation for a long time and have never heard anyone
suggest that this was possible. Can you explain how you would avoid damage to the prop on the landing roll? Would you just hold it off as long as
you could and then just let the strut drop and grind in? Seems like the prop would not have enough clearance and would inevitably hit the ground
while it was still rotating. Have you ever done this? |
Ofcourse he's never done that! But I'd like to watch him try it.
With someone else's airplane of course!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Ken: Yes It can be done> DEpending on the type Aircraft but if you bring it in Slow Nose up, Flaps down you can shut your engine off and May, I
asay May not ding your Prop.. I know that we do not have as many Tail Draggers as we use to but you will be amazed at what you can dio,
'Now to have some fun , next ime you go up, get altitude and do it in the Air, watch how the drop occurs when you shut down your Engine in a nose
High, not quite a Stall.
Same with a 172 or such, do a tail first landing right above stall and see how far you go. You can come to a stop before the Nose wheel touches. Try
it, just keep that stick in your belly.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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So... Ken... when are you going to try this?
My guess is that the elevator will run out of lift at about 40-50 knots. Still fast enough to cart wheel the aircraft on to it's back. But probably
collapse the nose gear first and bend the prop and crankshaft.
And if you trying to steal the plane what good would that be.
Plus Skeet, you haven't told us how you will take off with no nose gear tire.
Please tell.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
Plus Skeet, you haven't told us how you will take off with no nose gear tire.
Please tell. |
He's a tail dragger. Perhaps one or more of his "nekkid girls" straddling the rudder to shift the center of gravity aft. 
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Would offer again....
How did they know the "who, what, where, when, how... well this morning have learned where about 20 people are in the Southern area of Baja..
Some degree of "cover" should be used if you have a lot of stuff that can be stolen.. anywhere and if your in Mexico in the winter flying down to fish
for what ever... you are a "target", get real...
That much money in one area is going to draw in folks just like "chum".. if it takes 12 hours to drive from San Diego to Bahia Asuncion and you
shorten the trip by let's say in half or less.. what's the big woof in getting down to where the money is, none .. and we ALL know that only rich
people are at these locations fishing.. or staying at a second home just because of the weather..
One would also know from reading this board that someone that is down in Baja, has left a vacant home in the states too... and if they have enough to
have two of things.. well...
With the technology available to one with unlimited funding .... you are looking at intel gathering devices which you see in the movies... or at least
in the military, as that is where they get it...
Would add, after what happened in Columbia with the cartel's, you think they did learn a thing or two.. one of the reasons the Mexican army and the
States are having a fit dealing with this crop...
Comes down to knowing if your setting down in a "hot LZ" and using the necessary precautions what ever those may be.. as it's your stuff and butt you
are looking out for.. plus any of the others your are dragging along for the ride...
[Edited on 12-22-2009 by wessongroup]
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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now why didn't I think of that.. just ask them!!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Fishbuck. Do you mind telling us how much Taildragger time you have!!
Now Gentlemen and Scholars:The only way to do a take off is to have some one holed the tail section down.. But keep in mind that if you were in light
Sand it does not take much to get the weight off of the nose Wheel.
Shortfield takeoff Full Flap.
Wessongroup:You are looking for a detailed answer. There is none and from what I can see I do not think there were any locals involved.
They knew this pilots destination and knew how to get there or knowing the area they could be withion a few miles and just waiting for the right plane
at the right time.
A very easy thing to do is plant a Beacon locater in the aircraft at the stop in Brown Field or Mexicali or Tj/
Skeet
Long Live Cowboys
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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no skeet, I don't want a detailed answer.. the horse is already out of the corral.. catching the person.. there will always be another... and other
just trying to address "how" one comes on down, and suggesting that folks fully understand what they are doing when coming into Mexico with items of
real value which others really want ... I'm surprised that some smart lawyer in Mexico has not sued the owners, for contribution to the Cartel's....
It is after all a different Country with some really bad motor scooters, that will do you in a heat beat, given half a chance.. as we see every day...
I don't like the way one has to approach it, but it is, the way it is.... so one has to adapt
p.s. have seen folks flying old "steraman's" that could do just about anything.. plus the craft could take on heck of a beating.. always liked them
myself..
[Edited on 12-22-2009 by wessongroup]
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
So... Ken... when are you going to try this?
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Well...I would love to get out there and try a few touch-and-goes in a C-172 with a missing nosewheel...but wait, I checked my log and I'm not
current. Plus I have zero taildragger time and I had enough trouble landing high-wing tricycle gear aircraft with all three tires attached. Plus my
wife told me that I was an idiot for considering this...she said something like "...you marooon! You somehow lived through 2,000 hours in 20 years of
flying little airplanes and now you want to do this???..." So all things considered, as much fun as it would be, I am going to have to pass.
[Edited on 12-22-2009 by Ken Bondy]
carpe diem!
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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"The insurance companies must have this somewhat figured out by now. "
they have...they up our rates!!! the actuarials keep adjusting...  
full story now on BBP.
the perp is likely a cartel plant within the DGAC system and gets flight plans.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
So... Ken... when are you going to try this?
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Well...I would love to get out there and try a few touch-and-goes in a C-172 with a missing nosewheel...but wait, I checked my log and I'm not
current. Plus I have zero taildragger time and I had enough trouble landing high-wing tricycle gear aircraft with all three tires attached. Plus my
wife told me that I was an idiot for considering this...she said something like "...you marooon! You somehow lived through 2,000 hours in 20 years of
flying little airplanes and now you want to do this???..." So all things considered, as much fun as it would be, I am going to have to pass.
[Edited on 12-22-2009 by Ken Bondy] |
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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morning all...I've been out of town.
Ok...the pilot filed a flight plan to Asuncion where he checked in in Ensenada.(Many pilots dont put Asuncion as their destination...maybe a good
idea??) sure could be someone on the inside there...probably more likely than a local here but it's not out of the question someone here has ties and
could make a call. Weird thing is, the plane was here for 3 nights before it got jacked...lots of time to mobilize a team and they came prepared with
blowtorches, av gas, tools etc. Nobody knew he was coming, he didnt buzz town, I didnt post it etc.
airmech voiced what the pilot said as he had his wrenches out with the idea of disabling the plane...he was really worried he would screw something up
and not be able to fly out, FAA regs, etc and he felt that he would rather have someone steal it when he isnt in it or taxiing down the runway or
something. He was just glad we didnt post a guard and that nobody got hurt. ONe of our guests gave them a ride up to San Diego...they probably just
arrived late last night so I'm sure it will appear on BBP soon enough..he is a member. I didnt really want to post it either outs of respect for his
privacy but some people here said I should post it because if I dont, it might look like I was trying to cover up the theft or something to that
effect....so this is the scoop amigos. I am soooo bummed.
the really crappy thing is that it creates all these strange ideas and suspicions...could it have been someone local tipping the banditos off??? who??
and just plain makes one start to wonder about lots of things...sheesh.
Looks like the only way to fly close to here is to leave the plane in Guerrero Negro where the military guard the strip.
[Edited on 12-24-2009 by shari]
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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Sheri - check U2Us. it's there.
as far as departing from dirt sans a wheel, nose wheel at that.... in a tri gear plane.....skeeter, HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!!
regs say pilot is prohibited from operating craft in an unsafe manner.
regs say aircraft must have all required minimum equipment on board and be in an air worthy condition.
what's wrong with this picture??
1. never get it off the ground unless you made a sand ski.
2. never land it without a dig and flip.
what would be the point?
let the insurance handle it.
don't take 200 series into mexico, period.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Shari,
A crime like this has more than one victim. You are all victims in this and I am very sad that this has happened to you and your community. I don't
mean to minimize your experience however it is very important to recognize that there is indeed a war going on in Mexico and no one is exempt from
it's effects. There are lessons here for all of us Nomads about security and some of this discussion has reminded me of some of those lessons and I
have learned some more.
The reality is that there is crime and danger in traveling to Mexico and that includes Baja. We all take responsibility for our own safety and
security when we are traveling and must maintain our vigilance at the same time balance that need with our need to have FUN. I can't think of a place
where I have had more fun than Asuncion.
I am pleased to hear that others have pitched in to help these people make it back home. This is good news and again points to the fact that as well
as harm done there is also good done.
On that note I wish all Nomads a Happy Holiday Season, Feliz Navidad e Prospero Ano Nuevo!! e pardon mi mal Espanol
Iflyfishingratitudefornomads
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airmech
Nomad
Posts: 184
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Murrieta Ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: Expeditionary
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"From the victims mouth"
I copied this from the BBP site so the Nomads would have the real story.
"I flew my 210 down to Bahia Asuncion last Wednesday. I checked on the plane Saturday afternoon. I arrived at the airport on Sunday morning for
departure and the plane was gone. I had a solid prop lock on the plane and I pulled two spark plug wires. Gas jugs were found near the beginning of
the runway. We think the people who stole the plane came with gas jugs, added another 20 gallons of fuel. Cut the prop lock with a torch because the
hardened steal simply could not be cut with a hack saw and too thick for a bolt cutter. They must have diagnosed the pulled spark plug wires and took
the plane. My bet is that someone who lives in town tipped off the bad guys and it took 3 days to get a pilot over there to take the plane. I avoided
buzzing the town because I didnt want anyone to know I was there, but the whole town seemed to know within a day or two. The police new I was there
because they went out and took picures of my plane Thursday morning. They could have tipped off the bad guys too. No way to know for sure. Bahia
Asunsion otherwise is a great destination. Great people. Shari and Juan were awesome and probably the biggest losers in this. Fly to Guerrero Negro
and Shari will pick you up there. Do not fly to this airport and leave your plane overnight, ever." KREW
L
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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It would be interesting to see if any one used their Cutting Torch. I feel sure there would not be to many people in town that has One.
Really it woiuld take a real good Team of Special Forces type to go in and find the location where these stolen planes are being used ,And I would
suggest Cualiacan, Los Mooichis area.
Determine the people using them, Kill them and leave a message that they should leave the Americans Airplanes alone.It has been going on for many
years, its just that with the mass Communication we have now everybody hears about it.
Ken I agree that itt is time to stop the Fun Things!! I took a 172 with a 180 for a two hour Flight over Palo Duro Canyon and after about an Hour
started having trouble with my hearing Aids.
No more for me.
Fishbuck and any other Pilots or Pilots to be. Get a Hold of all the photos and pictures and information about BOB Hoover, read and study what that
man could do with an Airplane.
Ken I wonder if any of the new Instructors are teaching "Dead Stick Landings"" anymore. Every new Pilot should have a Couple before he gets his
Certificate!!!
Now to anyone going to Asuncion. When you get there talk to Juan or Shari, Hire a local Nightwatchman, He will scare away a lot of people.
Get one with a real Bad Rep. and the Crooks will get the word.
Make sure he has a weapon but don"t tell anyone.
Skeet
Long Live Cowboys
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Skeet.. afraid your right.. these folks are well trained mercenaries.. not sure the locals are up to the task..even If you provide them an assault
rifle or rifles .. may be willing, but not able..
These guys are "ex special forces" trained in the U.S. and know their job and are equipped !! .. it's a big one to take on these folks if your not
ready for the war.... and I'm afraid most are not up to the challenge, I know I'm not.. I'm almost 70 and can just barely get around anymore.. sounds
like your a tough old bird and I understand what you are saying
But, I'm keeping a low profile.. and hoping no one wants what this old man has, is realistically my only shot down here.. and if they do.. take it!!
I'll do without, did before I had what ever they take.. thank you very much.. if it comes down to the real thing.. then I will have to go down the
best way I can
I'm glad that no one was hurt, and hope that it only goes this far for Shari and Juan and the rest down that way... hang tight...
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