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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Baja Boy----------the "party" (republicans?) would approve--------we are all about "responsibility", and criticism applies across the board no matter
where lack of it originates from.
Barry |
Exactly! The rules should be the SAME for EVERYONE... No 'special' deals for people based on things they cannot control... just like the way Dr. King
invisioned.
The Republican party is the party of the people... responsible people who don't expect to have them or their neighbors foot the bill for other
people's lack of responsibility... who want government to get out of people's way to create jobs and income for everyone ... and only do those things
directed by the constitution. |
DK Perhaps the idea that partisan interpretations explain all things is short-sighted?
Isn't it possible that labeling ideals as left vs right or liberal vs conservative misses the common ideals we all share and further divides us as a
community of like-minded people with common goals and few differences.
Isn't it possible that partisan interpretations are only a political tool to divide, conquer and weaken the common ideals of people over the goals of
corporate monopolies?
I wonder if you have given thought to the fallacy of the left-right paradigm? Just a thought.
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Airport Bum
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I have been looking for a replacement for my high mileage Tundra 4x4. Yesterday, after three days of looking, driving and comparing, I bought a Ford
F150 4x4. I have been a Toyota guy for years. I fired Ford long ago for low quality and I found Toyota was high quality.
I think they still are in some cases but......the new Tundra, 2006 to present, is a piece of junk which represents and demonstrates the company's push
to gain market share and high profits at the expense of quality and safety. I looked long and hard at both the Tundra and the Tacoma. But Tacoma
wasn't big enough and a thorough inspection of the Tundra proved it to be a rattle trap. Example: The bed liner which comes as standard. It is a
slide in ABS liner which rattles and bangs everywhere it is hit upon. Ditto the dashboard cover etc. etc.
So long Toyota. I'll think about you in roughly five years when I look for a truck again.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Just like old die hard Toyota promoters, promoters of dual political parties are in denial of their failure to mind the store. Toyotas are great cars
but not without exception, like the left right theme marketing distracts the public from their ideals. Left is right and right is left, Reagan = Bush
= Clinton = Bush = Barry Sortero. Notably, there are few differences and vast similarities in the policies Bush versus Obama. But no, the Left vs
Right false paradigm traps and sidelines would-be compatriots of like minded ideals, communities lose and corporations gain. Toyota is notably less
than concerned with the well being of its constituents just as the two parties are demonstrably less than concerned with the well being of the public.
But, when will the deluded public see that the shadows on the walls are from cutouts, false confrontations from left and right drive policies which
harm the individual. Though, the moment this illusion falls and instead of asking or waiting for "leaders" to lead, people see themselves as leaders
themselves, then we can break away from this theatre of the absurd.
The problem is well defined, nothing new, we have been warned often, loudly and clearly. Eisenhower and Kennedy warned us, heck Smedley Butler warned us loudly that we are manipulated, harmed and murdered for profit by homicidal multi-generational profiteers.
What will it take to wake up from the delusion that we are divided by left right policies? What will it take to toss aside arrogance and ego to see
that when we allow corporate profits to supercede our well being we lose and worse when we turn upon each other under the guise of a left right
paradigm we all will lose our health and our ideals.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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nukid... don't really know.. as the next crop coming up are playing the same game.. and will only fill the empty chairs, offices, committee's,
airplanes and other, left by the previous.. 
and we haven't even talked about the bureaucracy which they fund, they are kinda tied togather ...
very good thought..
[Edited on 2-23-2010 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 2-23-2010 by wessongroup]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
nukid... don't really know.. as the next crop coming up are playing the same game.. and will only fill the empty chairs, offices, committee's,
airplanes and other, left by the previous..
and we haven't even talked about the bureaucracy which they fund, they are kinda tied togather ...
very good thought..
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Perhaps if we take a moment to discuss these issues with someone younger than ourselves today, in order to discuss this serious issue, we might learn
something and shed some needed light.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
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You are right Gnu, the two party system only exists so that we have the illusion of a choice. What really exists is a corporatocracy. The Toyota case
perfectly illustrates how the corporate bottom line trumps all else.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
I have been looking for a replacement for my high mileage Tundra 4x4. Yesterday, after three days of looking, driving and comparing, I bought a Ford
F150 4x4. |
bucko,
Do you know if the Ford is using a electronically controlled throttle system or is the old fashioned mechanical linkage type system used? I don't buy
the floor mat, gas pedal explanation for the sudden acceleration problem and if that didn't exist Toyota probably wouldn't be in the news.
Have all manufacturers gone to the "fly-by-wire" throttle system?
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
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krico,
F150's have had it for at least 6 years, mazda, VW, Infiniti have it as well. I would bet most manufactures have gone to Fly By Wire. Steering too
is now FBW is some cars, Audi I know has it.
Ken
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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My 2010 Tacoma keeps impressing me with what a superior 4WD system it has... (this is a Tacoma thread, right?).
Sunday, Baja Angel went to the hills north of San Marcos and had a chance to do some serious steep rutted and rocky road (low range)... and the A-TRAC
(works like lockers front and rear, but allows easy steering) made the Tacoma climb like tractor!
I even backed into a deep rut on accident and the truck came to rest on the spare and trailer hitch receiver (high centered)... In the past, I would
have needed a pull or serious work to get out (I ws on a steep incline). Not now, the Active Traction Control pulled us out with maybe just one or two
tires having traction... it was amazing!
I am so happy to have such a capable and powerful truck... Viva Toyota!
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
krico,
F150's have had it for at least 6 years, mazda, VW, Infiniti have it as well. I would bet most manufactures have gone to Fly By Wire. Steering too
is now FBW is some cars, Audi I know has it.
Ken |
I suppose there is a good reason to switch from mechanical to electro-mechanical control systems. I wonder what it is.
Hope the FBW steering systems have the bugs worked out. Yikes!
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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With the multiport fuel injection on modern cars it would be more difficult to use a mechanical control than electrical control. Even the mechanical
control would have to revert to electrical control at some point. Modern vehicles use a computer to determine the time the injector is turned on in
order to have a clean burn with minimal pollutants. Fly by wire is not new, it's been around for many years. Military jets have used it dating back to
the 50s usually with a mechanical backup. I thing the F18 was the first true FBW only jet. There is nothing wrong with such a system in a car or truck
but they should have a cutoff or fault related system too. You push on the brake pedal and the feed to the injector should be cut.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Late for work, thanks Toyoga!
Yep, ever since the recalls started those out-of-control Toyotas have reduced their speed again and again. It appears they feel safe at 30mph.
GOOD GRIEF CHARLIE BROWN!
OOps forgot to insert insult to the cars themselves... actually I doubt that is necessary. That COO who okayed it to lie is a jerk.
Imagine your mom flying down the road at a 100mph for 6 miles with no way to execute a stop.
Do you still trust what they say David?
[Edited on 2-24-2010 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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mulegejim
Nomad
Posts: 470
Registered: 9-4-2006
Location: San Clemente, CA/Mulege, BCS
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Here is a link to an article in the Los Angeles Times on Tuesday. In about the middle of the article Toyota indicates it will reprogram the computer
in several of their vehicles already on the road to override the throttle when the brake pedal in depressed. The recall includes 2005/2010 Tacomas
which many nomads may own. I have a 2005 so it will be included. Jim
The link isn't working, however, you can get the idea by the above post or go latimes.com and do a search on"Tacoma recall".
[Edited on 2-24-2010 by mulegejim]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Yep, ever since the recalls started those out-of-control Toyotas have reduced their speed again and again. It appears they feel safe at 30mph.
GOOD GRIEF CHARLIE BROWN!
OOps forgot to insert insult to the cars themselves... actually I doubt that is necessary. That COO who okayed it to lie is a jerk.
Imagine your mom flying down the road at a 100mph for 6 miles with no way to execute a stop.
Do you still trust what they say David?
[Edited on 2-24-2010 by Sharksbaja] |
All I can do is report what I experience, Corky... I am a Toyota driver party because of ALL the Baja amigos/ Nomads now that raved about theirs... I
am on Tacoma #3 now, with about 243,000 miles total since 2000. Baja Angel is in her first Toyota with 30,000 miles so far (a 2008 Corolla).
So, between us and ALL the Nomads with Toyotas... I have YET to hear of ANY of US with this accelerator problem.
If it was so widespread, you would think there would be some Nomads who had sudden accelerator syndrome, wouldn't you?
I sure hope none of US has it happen, naturally... but I think it is odd that this all began with the Santee tragidy that was a dealer's LOANER car
(Lexus) with TWO floor mats (one on top of the other) that caused the gas pedal to wedge depressed.
[Edited on 2-24-2010 by David K]
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Airport Bum
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I agree that the accelerator problem sounds a little extreme.....the car takes off at 100+MPH, won't shut down with the key or start button, won't go
out of gear, won't stop via the brakes....the car is "alive" and wants to kill you.
If that has really happened we have a very big problem with electronics in Toyotas and we need to stop driving them until the problem is fixed.
But...I gotta say....it's danged convenient to the *&&^^% gummint to shut down the only NON UNION auto maker in the land, the one with the
highest quality cars and the hottest selling cars just when that same (*(*&*d gummint has taken over two of the three auto companies because they
couldn't compete because of the UNIONS....and lousy, gutless, incompetent, old, tired management.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Somebody even testified that, "the rear wheels were spouting gravel"-------referring presumably to excessive excelleration.
Now THAT is fasinating as they were talking about a Camry, and Camry's are front-wheel drive.
It has all the earmarks of a witchhunt, to me.
Barry
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
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Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Somebody even testified that, "the rear wheels were spouting gravel"-------referring presumably to excessive excelleration.
Now THAT is fasinating as they were talking about a Camry, and Camry's are front-wheel drive.
It has all the earmarks of a witchhunt, to me.
Barry |
Not only front wheel drive, but limited slip now, as well...  
This may be as funny (or sad) as global warming and rising sea levels... to scare people to gain a result.
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mulegejim
Nomad
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For those that are involved or interested here is an article from the Los Angeles Times.
latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-brake24-2010feb24,0,2304143.story
latimes.com
Toyota plans to put brake overrides in new vehicles
By the end of 2010, the firm will begin installing a system that shuts down the engine when the brake and gas pedals are pressed simultaneously. It's
an extra safeguard against sudden acceleration.
By Jerry Hirsch
12:34 PM PST, February 23, 2010
Toyota Motor Corp. plans a more aggressive rollout of a system that cuts power to the engine when the brake and gas pedals in a vehicle are pressed at
the same time.
The system is meant to be an extra safeguard against the type of sudden-acceleration problems that have prompted the company to recall millions of
vehicles worldwide.
The brake override system will be built into most new Toyota models sold in the United States by the end of 2010, the company said.
The announcement came as James Lentz, president of Toyota's U.S. operations, apologized to consumers for the automaker's safety and reliability
problems at a hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee's investigative subcommittee Tuesday.
"We will install advanced brake override systems in all our new models -- making us one of the first full-line manufacturers to offer this
customer-confidence feature as standard equipment," Lentz said in prepared remarks.
He noted that Toyota also planned to install the system on its 2005 to 2010 Tacoma, 2009 and 2010 Venza, and 2008 to 2010 Sequoia models, which
because of their electronic components can be reprogrammed with the new software.
Previously Toyota had said it would retrofit the 2007 to 2010 Camry, 2005 to 2010 Avalon, and the 2007 to 2010 Lexus ES 350, 2006 to 2010 IS 350 and
2006 to 2010 IS 250 models.
"These actions underscore that Toyota is going above and beyond making the necessary vehicle modifications and repairs to ensure that our customers
can be completely confident in the safety and reliability of the cars and trucks they drive," Lentz said.
The automaker said the brake override system is not an integral part of the recall remedy but, rather, is meant to give drivers an extra measure of
confidence.
Toyota has issued about 10 million recall notices worldwide recently, mostly for floor mats that can entrap the gas pedal and for gas pedals that can
stick. It has blamed both problems for causing unintended acceleration.
Some experts say the recalls fail to address the core problem behind the unintended acceleration, which they suspect could be a flaw in Toyota's
electronic control system.
During questioning by House panel members, Lentz said that the automaker has not found any fault with the electronic throttle control system and does
not believe it is the source of the problem.
jerry.hirsch@latimes.com
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Of course... sales have dropped, so like any business... it will do whatever it takes to get sales back up... (even adding devices that really aren't
necessary)... Afterall, the Japanese government is NOT sooo stupid as to give Toyota taxpayer's money or even take over the company!
On a serious note, IF there is a problem in the electronics... then you can bet it isn't limited to Toyota... that many other car makers will have the
same system... and will make the same corrections/ changes.
I am still waiting to hear from another Nomad Toyota driver whose own personal car had unexpected acceleration....
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
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One of my students lost 4 family members.
I'm not sure why you are so convinced this is not for real? For some reason, I'm guessing Fox news poisoned your thinking, once again.
Zac
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Of course... sales have dropped, so like any business... it will do whatever it takes to get sales back up... (even adding devices that really aren't
necessary)... Afterall, the Japanese government is NOT sooo stupid as to give Toyota taxpayer's money or even take over the company!
On a serious note, IF there is a problem in the electronics... then you can bet it isn't limited to Toyota... that many other car makers will have the
same system... and will make the same corrections/ changes.
I am still waiting to hear from another Nomad Toyota driver whose own personal car had unexpected acceleration.... |
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