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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
"Mexico reaffirms gay marriages. Not hard to be more enlightened than California"
You can't legislate people's minds. Now they have a law which virtually no Mexican believes in. |
However, one can legislate to protect minorities and ensure their human and civil rights. The arguments against gay marriage are very much the same
as the ones used against interracial marrage in the past---that too had to be legislated in many places.
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Then the laws should be changed, Diane.
It's a tremendous waste of people's time and money to set up an election and have someone come along and say, 'sorry folks'.
Our system should first determine the constitutionality of a law and then allow people to vote on it. But once the courts decide on it there should be
no backtracking and once again reversing the laws.
The problem is that the current system makes a mockery of elections and thereby democracy itself.
IMO the courts have too much power and they are inconsistent. The same Constitution is interpreted in different ways depending on who is making the
judgement. So saying that the courts are a system of balance that keeps us from doing 'bad' is nonsense. The death penalty is constitutional in some
states and not in others (what's more black and white than life and death). The abortion rights people have the upper hand now but it could change in
a flash and still be 'constitutional'. Every president makes sure to appoint a Supreme Court judge that shares 'his' interpretation of the
Constitution.
This entire 'constitutional' argument is a strawman used by those who are in agreement with the decision, and really nothing more. If you read this
thread you will note that all of those who talk about the importance of supporting the Constitution (against "Mob Rule") are in fact liberal nomads
who simply agree with the current ruling. |
It was nice to have the Mormom Church coffers suffer a hundred million dollar hit from financing Prop 8. It was the most expensive issue ever to reach
a ballot- let he bigots waste their money. You can't fix stupid. It's a shame all that money wasn't used for something positive to help society-
instead of being wasted on ads.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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TMW
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Many had previously married in other ceremonies of committment, but they wanted the legal rights that only a government sanctioned marriage would
grant.
Our gay friends deserve the same civil rights that we enjoy. To deny this is unAmericaan. |
Diana in CA they do have the same legal rights.
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oldlady
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
I believe it was Emerson who said consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. |
Is that supposed to be good or bad? |
Depends, but the oft quoted partial sentence conveys a meaning that perhaps Emerson did not intend. What he wrote was:
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosohers and divines.
When did we adopt a mind set that a government in the US is the grantor of rights?
If our courts agree that marriage is a "right" and not a relationship between a man and a woman, Pompano's desire to marry his late lab might be a
little extreme(but if she was as pretty as my lab, maybe not) but not so far fetched to assume that the "right" must be universally extended and or
protected irrespective of quantity or familal relationships.
The professional left, in its penchant for foolish consistency, has managed to whip the public into a frenzy without so much as an acknowledgement of
a how a slippery slope would be negootiated if at all. But is sure as hell is a nice diversion so we don't get concerned about a bankrupt state and
a bankrupt nation fiddling over this while Iran fiddles with loading fuel rods into a reactor.
I agree with Dennis.....Nonsense!
[Edited on 8-19-2010 by oldlady]
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MrBillM
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Civil Rights and What's Right.
Although I have no use for the LDS, I do think that they shouldn't be criticized for doing whatever they feel correct to support their religious
tenets. That isn't "Un-American".
Or, "unAmericaan" as Diana would say.
Rather than misquote 19th Century minds (especially in all things political), I prefer the wisdom of modern-day philosophers like Charles Colson who
said:
"When you've got them by the Balls, their Hearts and Minds will Follow".
[Edited on 8-19-2010 by MrBillM]
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capt. mike
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anybody remember the old adventures of Rump Ranger radio show?? With his faithful sidekick Rauncho?
the opening chorus went like this:...
He's Rump Ranger....
Turns his back on the face of danger..
Drops the outlaws to their knees...
that's the way he likes them please..
He's Rump Raaaanger!!... 
it was hiliarious.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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wessongroup
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Lady, glad you're keeping your eye on the "ball"... as would appear some are running for the hills on the dropping of this second shoe.. oh, and lets
not forget all those "commercial" loans which will be re-indexing too.. oh, my..
now who is going to buy all that....
as for the same sex marriages... looking forward to the division of property, who gets the kids.. and all kinds of neat things which will have to be
dealt with.. but, hey ....... there are a lot of lawyers out there that need work too... so why not create a whole new area of work... legal
separation of gay couples... I'm sure there are going to be some really good ones coming up...
Just who is the "breadwinner".. or is that something that will not be considered in same sex marriages.. or does the "woman" always get the "kids"???
who gets the house.. can hardly wait..
Jerry Springer has just gotten a new show..... for life
[Edited on 8-19-2010 by wessongroup]
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toneart
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"The professional left, in its penchant for foolish consistency, has managed to whip the public into a frenzy without so much as an acknowledgement of
a how a slippery slope would be negootiated if at all. But is sure as hell is a nice diversion so we don't get concerned about a bankrupt state and a
bankrupt nation fiddling over this while Iran fiddles with loading fuel rods into a reactor.
I agree with Dennis.....Nonsense!"--Old Lady
I agree that it is distracting from the important issues. But Prop.8 IS the opposition; the ones who are whipping this up and incurring the huge
expense.
It should matter not a whit to anyone other than the gays who want to marry. It doesn't affect anyone's life other than to torment the twisted minds
of homophobes.
---thoughts from the Amateur Left 
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
it was hiliarious. |
For your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W-gsCXrIkA
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
I believe it was Emerson who said consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. |
Is that supposed to be good or bad? |
Depends, but the oft quoted partial sentence conveys a meaning that perhaps Emerson did not intend. What he wrote was:
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosohers and divines.
Ah yes, that is the complete quote---but my use of it was not in regard to this issue, but I guess some did not understand that. But now
that you put the full quote out there, it sure describes the Sarah Palin politicians of today---especially the small minds. It also describes the
homophobic right wing--even the ones who are gay.
When did we adopt a mind set that a government in the US is the grantor of rights?
That is pure nonsense. The original Constitution probably would not have been adopted without the Bill of Rights which were written so
that government would protect the rights that were important to the founding fathers. And over time, those rights have been extended to include other
segments of the population. Or do you think those rights come from some mystical divine force? Nonsense
If our courts agree that marriage is a "right" and not a relationship between a man and a woman, Pompano's desire to marry his late lab might be a
little extreme(but if she was as pretty as my lab, maybe not) but not so far fetched to assume that the "right" must be universally extended and or
protected irrespective of quantity or familal relationships.
More nonsense. A form of that argument was used to oppose interracial marriage---simply nonsense. A fear tactic used by the extreme
right wing---that is what they survive on, fear and hate.
The professional left, in its penchant for foolish consistency, has managed to whip the public into a frenzy without so much as an acknowledgement of
a how a slippery slope would be negootiated if at all. But is sure as hell is a nice diversion so we don't get concerned about a bankrupt state and
a bankrupt nation fiddling over this while Iran fiddles with loading fuel rods into a reactor.
I agree with Dennis.....Nonsense!
You really must be kidding? It is the right wing noise makers who have whipped the public into a frenzy over this. They want it to be
one of their hate and fear election issues since they have no viable answers for the problems the country is facing. They have simply tried to
obstruct any progress. The left was happy with this decision and that would have been the end of the discussion.
[Edited on 8-19-2010 by oldlady] |
Homophobia is alive and well and difficult to understand. But hopefully rational minds will prevail and this right will be extended to this segment
of our population. Progressing toward the granting and extending of rights to more people is the American way. (did I spell that correctly, I hope so
as to not upset Mr. Bill)
TW---yes, California has granted a lot of rights to the gay population, so why not go the one step further?
Why are some people threatened by this? The tasteless jokes really demonstrate a fear? Married gays will not threaten you marriage, they will not
turn you gay, they will not turn your children gay, and they will not force you to drop your homophobia.
Has anyone been harmed by the gays who did marry in California?
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
---yes, California has granted a lot of rights to the gay population, so why not go the one step further?
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Is that all they will ever demand? One step? I find that difficult to believe. Empowered, they will produce a never ending litany of demands.
Activists don't have a goal. They have a hobby and the only way to tolerate them is to ignore them.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
---yes, California has granted a lot of rights to the gay population, so why not go the one step further?
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Is that all they will ever demand? One step? I find that difficult to believe. Empowered, they will produce a never ending litany of demands.
Activists don't have a goal. They have a hobby and the only way to tolerate them is to ignore them. |
Just what rights that you enjoy would threathen you if they are granted to gays? That is nonsense and more fear tactics.
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Taco de Baja
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by WooooshIt was nice to have the Mormom Church coffers suffer a hundred million dollar hit from financing Prop 8. It was
the most expensive issue ever to reach a ballot- let he bigots waste their money. You can't fix stupid. It's a shame all that money wasn't used for
something positive to help society- instead of being wasted on ads. |
Wasted? Really? All that money (on BOTH sides) went someplace and helped pay someone’s salary from the ad agency developing the propaganda slogans,
focus groups, the radio stations, the TV stations, people pounding in signs, people walking the neighborhoods.....Not to mention all the income taxes
those people had to pay to the state and feds. You could almost call it stimulus money, trickle down economics or whatever the buzz word for it is
now…..
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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MrBillM
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The Founding Fathers
No doubt did not anticipate that there would EVER be such a surge of Queer Coupling requiring government to address the question.
Of course, the premiere Founding Father (Alexander Hamilton) was against the entire Bill of Rights, contending that the Constitution was clear enough
that the Federal Government had NO Rights which were not enumerated and, therefore, was incapable of doing ANYTHING ELSE if the
States objected.
He sure got that one wrong along with his writings in "The Federalist Papers" justifying the Supreme Court.
One other founder (who wasn't involved in the Constitution) who would have been dumbfounded by the surge in the Homos, would have been Benjamin
Franklin, who did his best to become the true "Father" of our country. One can only imagine him saying "with all these women around, why would any
guys want to go around butt-plugging each other" ?
That is a good question.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Just what rights that you enjoy would threathen you if they are granted to gays? That is nonsense and more fear tactics. |
I don't know, but I, and my squaw, have a right to co-habitate in peace. So do the gays, so what's the big deal? There's a right they can excercise.
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Dave
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The horror
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Is that all they will ever demand? One step? I find that difficult to believe. Empowered, they will produce a never ending litany of demands.
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Mandatory home redecorating?
New military uniforms designed by Versace?
Judy Garland's birthday a national holiday?
On a lighter, loafer note...All the street signs in the desert community of Cathedral City are purple. Worth a chuckle every time I drive
through.
[Edited on 8-19-2010 by Dave]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
New military uniforms designed by Versace?
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I can see it now....Big, burly, Black drill sergeants wearing twelve year old boy's T-Shirts.
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I can see it now....Big, burly, Black drill sergeants wearing twelve year old boy's T-Shirts. |
Gets you hot, don't it? 
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oldlady
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In this country our rights are endowed by our creator. The Bill of Rights is a clarification to ensure the government protects our rights. Read your
own words, Diana, PROTECT not GRANT. And it was reasonably well thought out "nonsense".
I don't know any homophobic people at all; right left or center. I know of a religion that has very strong rules and consequences about homosexual
behavior. How they excercise their tolerance, or how they will overturn our laws when they are on the bench will be interesting. But, demonizing
people with these types of labels (homophobic, racist, bigot) when in fact their concerns may be on the possibility of unintended consequences, is
your consistency, not mine.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
more fear tactics. |
No, Diane. There's no fear involved. Gays have rights and more rights are being clarified. That's good. I'm glad.
But, to me, their life style is an abomination and as much as they like to say that we are all the same, we're not. They thrive and have pride in the
difference when it's convenient, but when they want something, they cry equality.
Sometimes, there are prices to pay for individuality. The gays, in my opinion, want to be different and have a price to pay for that.
And, the nonsense tossed around about children of single sex parents being unaffected growing up with their brutal peers who over-hear the opinions
and observations of their traditional parents is just plain BS. Kids are sensitive to the slightest anomaly.
[Edited on 8-19-2010 by DENNIS]
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
But the ideas that gay marriage in any way threatens straight marriages, or gays will definitely raise children with problems, or turn straight
children gay, and on and on are all based on ignorance and bigotry. |
I confess my ignorance-- do you have any
information on sexual identity and tendencies for children of mono-gender parental couples? My visceral feeling is that such environment doesn't
present complete role models for the developing child. But nor do single parent households, for that matter...
--Larry |
One study
Just another one of many
And these are just a couple---google it and read the studies. One study I cannot find right now does say that children raised by gay couples are more
accepting and tolerant of gender differences.
And these are mainly reports on other studies---the studies are interesting to read if one is interested. Has been quite a while since I have read
them.
Now if you check places like the crazy Focus on the Family, well remember he also thinks that gays are the product of environment which is really
nonsense.
Children raised in what is the so-called traditional Leave it to Beaver home may or may not be well adjusted, as well as children raised in
alternative family situations----coops, single mothers or fathers, extended families, gay familes, etc.
My reason for having read several studies in the past is that I at one time believed what you suggest. But as I acquired more gay friends with whom I
would debate this issue, I became interested. Not only did the studies change my mind, but also knowing the children of gay couples changed my mind.
It is like any other family situation---can be good, or not----
So again, I ask, how does the idea of a gay legally married couple threaten anyone?
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