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MitchMan
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Posts: 1856
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Give em hell, Monoloco...easy, isn't it?
MiniDriver, you couldn't be more wrong. It's going to be easy to completely discredit just about everything you just wrote. When you come from an
obviously flawed position as you do, you leave yourself wide open. Get ready, it's coming your way.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
What's amazing is that we have many poor right-wingers many of them on fixed incomes of social security, and only living in Mexico to make their
dollar stretch, because the costs are too high in the USA.
Many of these people that I'm talking about, are willing to cut back the social programs, and the safety net of social security, just so ultra rich
people could pay less taxes in America.
I'm sorry, but it's not the ultra rich in America that are suffering. It's the poor and the middle class that is suffering. Let the ultra rich, carry
their own water pails, and fight for their own taxes cuts, and favorable programs that help the rich only.
I'll never understand how poor Americans on fixed income, that pay little income taxes themselves, fight for the super rich, and polices that help
rich corporations, who ofter pay no income taxes. |
Rght on, Joe. It's like these guys close their eyes to the abundant facts all around them, create their own parallel universe, and repeat like green
parrots what they hear on Fox news...word for word...not an original thought among them. I'd suggest to them a reading list, but they would probably
just eat the books.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19246
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
What's amazing is that we have many poor right-wingers many of them on fixed incomes of social security, and only living in Mexico to make their
dollar stretch, because the costs are too high in the USA.
Many of these people that I'm talking about, are willing to cut back the social programs, and the safety net of social security, just so ultra rich
people could pay less taxes in America.
I'm sorry, but it's not the ultra rich in America that are suffering. It's the poor and the middle class that is suffering. Let the ultra rich, carry
their own water pails, and fight for their own taxes cuts, and favorable programs that help the rich only.
I'll never understand how poor Americans on fixed income, that pay little income taxes themselves, fight for the super rich, and polices that help
rich corporations, who ofter pay no income taxes. |
Rght on, Joe. It's like these guys close their eyes to the abundant facts all around them, create their own parallel universe, and repeat like green
parrots what they hear on Fox news...word for word...not an original thought among them. I'd suggest to them a reading list, but they would probably
just eat the books. |
Half of the population has below average intelligence.
I have observed that many people do really stupid things.
Very few people bother to think.
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TMW
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I suggest everyone get a copy of "Getting Rich in America" by Brian Tracy. It's an audio CD series. Then you'll understand how to get rich when you
have nothing to start with. Self-gradification is one of the biggest reasons people never get rich.
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MrBillM
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Below-Average
While it is Axiomatic that Half are ALWAYS below the median, such is not the case with
average.
Unfortunately, in recent years, the two terms have been incorrectly conflated to such a degree that the misuse has gained widespread (and official)
acceptance.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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Mean, median and mode........
All different
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
The "Koch Brother's", like George Soros and others, support a system and belief in how Govt. should operate that they personally mostly agree
with---------and they have the ability and resources to make a difference. That is the American Way, and yes I support that as long as everybody pays
attention (as they should) to where that "support" is coming from and the possible ramifications, and vote accordingly.
A Republic does not work well if all individuals don't make the effort to pay attention, stay informed, and vote.
Barry
[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Barry A.] |
How is the average person supposed to, "pay attention, stay informed",
when the big money donors effectively obfuscate their contributions with 501c organizations and other ruses, where they can spend unlimited money to
influence the political system. The fact is, that we are only allowed to vote for candidates that have already been vetted by these big money players.
This fact makes it hard to argue that the 1% is under-represented or somehow paying more than their fair share, cry me a river. The reason that we are
in the economic excrement hole we are currently in, is because these vultures have been controlling congress and driving legislation to benefit
themselves for way to long.
[Edited on 5-6-2014 by monoloco] |
(Disclaimer: Please try and ignore my spelling errors)
I disagree with the thrust of your entire last sentence. Tho there will always be "vultures" within all classes of people, most are not.
I have never heard anybody say that the "1%" are "under represented"-----where did THAT come from?
-----and the wealthy ARE certainly paying "more than their fair share", IMO, which is why I favor the FLAT TAX as many well known economists have
recommended for years (I don't believe that MitchMan is a well known economist, but I admire his research efforts even tho he cherry-picks and
spouts only that which supports his theories---a common problem).
As it stands now, 501C's are legal, and they are legal for a reason. All political parties have them, (I think?) and that does not bother me. Even
George Soros efforts do not bother me, tho they are misdirected, IMO.
It is legal to vote for anybody you want, so your comment is a mis-charaterazaton of the electorate I believe, but I do know what you mean. So far, I
have been fairly happy with the folks running in general, and have no problems voting. I am certainly ready to vote for somebody with experience in
successfully running something significant, like Mitt Romney or Ross Perot, both of whom I voted for.
In my opinion, the reason that the economy is recovering so slowly is complicated, but some of the President's policies are not helping and are
probably hindering, as well as his apparent lack of interest in what makes past recoveries work. There is lots of blame to go around, however, and
some of it is mostly out of our control and is the result of changing situations. Your reference to "economic excrement hole" is soooo over the top
that I cannot even begin to reply----------even in my town of Redding, CA (pop 100K) where the current unemployment stands at 17%, we appear to be
doing fine, and that is because 83% of the working-age population IS working, and working hard. It is almost impossible to get into most of our
restaurants on Fri & Sat. nights because of the crowds. Things seem pretty normal in general at most stores. My business friends tell me that
they cannot find qualified people to fill their vacant positions, and it is a real problem. The qualities lacking are education, experience, and
can-do attitudes & unrealistic expectations. I'm told the four most disqualifying situations are applicants past record of drug abuse, bad
employment history, and really poor attitude and work ethic based on history. Much of that I think is the result of Liberal policies over many years
fostering 'victim' slip-shod personal responsibility and a give-me-more attitude as a direct result of nanny-state legislation and retoric.
IMO, if we are headed down-hill, which you obviously think we are, it is a direct result of Democrat majorities imposing mis-guided legislation on
all of us, and a failure of the main-stream media to hold the responsible politicians and bureaucrats accountable for their mistakes. I am certainly
glad that at least a few Media outlets (such as FoxNews) has heard me and listened, and are waking up to what is happening all around us, and more
importantly reporting same. I am not a Tea Partier, but I support much of the thrust of their efforts, and understand their frustration.
We need many more Trey Gowdy's, IMO!!!!
As for my personal understanding of Economics, that MitchMan is constantly hammering me about, I pay well-known people that I respect and that I
believe are highly qualified to keep me up-to-speed on these matters, and so far that has worked well for me. I do NOT normally listen to Sam
Hannity, Russ Limbaugh, or other rabble-rousers as they repeat themselves over and over again and it's gets really boring, even tho I agree with much
of what they say, or have said. They are mostly a waste of time, IMO.
The posts by MitchMan, the Goat, and other eliteists above only hurt their credibility by there foul and highly distasteful comments about some
others, and are trolls in my opinion who appear to thrive on insults-------which is a shame as they probably are smart and knowledgable people in the
main, but also highly intolerant of others who disagree with them.
We live in a world of many people with many different levels of education, intelligence, and backgrounds, and nothing will be solved, I don't believe,
if we don't always keep this in mind, and act and talk civilly to each other, and above all LISTEN and act responsibly despite how frustrating that
can sometimes be.
That's my rant for the morning!!! (-:
Barry
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LancairDriver
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Posts: 1599
Registered: 2-22-2008
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Very well stated Barry. You definitely have the high road here.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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I am sorry Barry but this statement
"The posts by MitchMan, the Goat, and other eliteists above only hurt their credibility by there foul and highly distasteful comments about some
others, and are trolls in my opinion who appear to thrive on insults-------which is a shame as they probably are smart and knowledgable people in the
main, but also highly intolerant of others who disagree with them. "
in and of itself shows intolerance and could be interpreted as insulting.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Intolerant and Insulting
NOBODY should care whether or not the Left finds them Intolerant and Insulting.
They find EVERYONE who disagrees with their Dogma Intolerant and Insulting.
Opinions contrary to theirs are ALWAYS considered such and they rabidly attack.
F-em.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
I suggest everyone get a copy of "Getting Rich in America" by Brian Tracy. It's an audio CD series. Then you'll understand how to get rich when you
have nothing to start with. Self-gradification is one of the biggest reasons people never get rich. |
Oh wow, you can't go wrong reading a book or listening to a tape from Brian Tracy, but if I'm going to listen to a self-help snake oil
self-improvement guru. I'm going to listen to Tony Robbins, or Deepak Chopra. Brian Tracy, is too political, and he has a right-wing slant.
Then I guess you follow it up with a daily dose of the, Fair and Balanced, "Fox News," and you'll be all set in an alternate reality, where you
believe, it's better for America, if you follow a reverse Robin Hood, strategy, of taking from the poor, and giving it to the rich.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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And, speaking of the 10 Richest Mexicans .... 
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
And, speaking of the 10 Richest Mexicans .... |
It's all connected, Wiley
Rich Mexicanos / rich Norte- Americanos, it's all connected. The left wants them all "to pay" big-time for the audacity of them becoming "1 %'ers".
Barry
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
I suggest everyone get a copy of "Getting Rich in America" by Brian Tracy. It's an audio CD series. Then you'll understand how to get rich when you
have nothing to start with. Self-gradification is one of the biggest reasons people never get rich. |
Oh wow, you can't go wrong reading a book or listening to a tape from Brian Tracy, but if I'm going to listen to a self-help snake oil
self-improvement guru. I'm going to listen to Tony Robbins, or Deepak Chopra. Brian Tracy, is too political, and he has a right-wing slant.
Then I guess you follow it up with a daily dose of the, Fair and Balanced, "Fox News," and you'll be all set in an alternate reality, where you
believe, it's better for America, if you follow a reverse Robin Hood, strategy, of taking from the poor, and giving it to the rich.
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Generally speaking, the "rich" DON'T "take from the poor"! That theory is a lefty-myth spouted over and over again by the radical Dems!!! The rich
mostly produce products and services that American's, and many others, seem to want and most buy! And consequently they grow RICH. Nobody, least of
all "the rich", compel others to buy this stuff, normally. Compelling (or demanding) people to do things, or buy things, or pay more taxes is a
practice of the left-leaning Democrats, not the Republicans. Remember, the (warm and fuzzy, tolerant) Left ALWAYS knows best what other people should
do, and by Gawd they better DO IT!
Barry
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
I am sorry Barry but this statement
"The posts by MitchMan, the Goat, and other eliteists above only hurt their credibility by there foul and highly distasteful comments about some
others, and are trolls in my opinion who appear to thrive on insults-------which is a shame as they probably are smart and knowledgable people in the
main, but also highly intolerant of others who disagree with them. "
in and of itself shows intolerance and could be interpreted as insulting. |
I suppose you are right-----------often the TRUTH does hurt!!!
Barry
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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just when you start to think it CAN"T get any more idiotic,...along....comes....davidK!.
why don't you nutbags take it elsewhere!
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
That theory is a lefty-myth spouted over and over again by the radical Dems!!! The rich mostly produce products and services that
American's, and many others, seem to want and most buy! And consequently they grow RICH. |
barry,
actually, the laborers produce products and services. many rich just invest inherited capital that they never worked a day for, and eat caviar and
drink champagne on the beach in cabo, while the working man toils in a factory or cubicle, day dreaming of a week-long trip to a mediocre timeshare in
cabo (see how i kept this thread baja-related?)
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
just when you start to think it CAN"T get any more idiotic,...along....comes....davidK!.
why don't you nutbags take it elsewhere! |
How so? I was countering the obvious nutty philosophy of failure so heavily embraced by the left. Rewarding failure is not going to benefit anyone in
the long run. Eventually people will just give up if they are punished for their success. Look for a shortage of doctors in our future!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
That theory is a lefty-myth spouted over and over again by the radical Dems!!! The rich mostly produce products and services that
American's, and many others, seem to want and most buy! And consequently they grow RICH. |
barry,
actually, the laborers produce products and services. many rich just invest inherited capital that they never worked a day for, and eat caviar and
drink champagne on the beach in cabo, while the working man toils in a factory or cubicle, day dreaming of a week-long trip to a mediocre timeshare in
cabo (see how i kept this thread baja-related?)
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Depends on how you look at it----------sorta a 'chicken or the egg' scenario. Without capitol invested by people who have it there would be no
factory, etc. for other's to work in, and earn wages, etc..... The truth is that BOTH are necessary and very important. Most wise entreprenuers (and
most ARE wise) don't want to exploit their workers as it will hurt their product, and their bottom-line long term, generally speaking. Warren Buffett
talks about his all the time. Most investors are NOT sitting around on a beach in Cabo or BOLA sipping tequila and eating fish-eggs, they are
investing their earned money accumulated over many years, and in fact I don't know any people like you mention, and I know quite a few millionairs. I
don't know any Trust-Fund babies, I don't think, depending on your definition. We accumulated our money by investing over many years with money put
aside from wages or salarys just for that purpose. It pays off big time over the years, and allows many of us to achieve the American Dream that you
mention most want to attain. In my case I gained my invested money thru Stock Mutual Funds, individual Stocks, Hedges, Commodities, some Real Estate
in great markets, and all assets used initially were earned from my Salary thru rigorous saving of a percentage of all earned income (in my case we
saved about 30% of every dime, and invested it over 45+ years allowing it to compound). Inherited money from my Mom is in a by-pass Trust (generation
skipping) which I now control since my Mom passed, but all assets go to my kids and grandkids, etc....eventually. My Mom set it up that way to avoid
death-taxes as best she could, but that only partially worked. We live off pensions, and income from our non-Trust investments (all owned by our
personal Family Trust, however). Some of my investments have lost 10's of thousands of dollars, and others have rewarded us handsomely. (that's called
"risk-taking").
Even assuming your scenario of inherited capitol, the recipients are taking almost always taking risks daily in investing their Family money in
ventures that often fail, etc... To bash them is, to me, sounding like pure jealously and envy, hating their success and luck, and wanting what they
have--------that's called GREED, I believe.
Life is good, and there are no "victims" in my Family, and we all are wage-earners and salaried people, or retired.
You have a strange take on the wealthy, and brand all with the rare bad examples you have heard of, or seen. Most don't fit that description!
Barry
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
Quote from Mitch:
In the absence of an economic system of balanced equitable income/compensation, the only current logical and equitable solution is to tax the money
where it lies and where it went…at the top. They are the ones who have excessively benefited from the economy and they now have more purchasing power
than they themselves need and more purchasing power than they themselves can consume.
You have to look at the big picture…it’s called “macroeconomics”.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have just described the perfect formula for completing the already advanced destruction of the US economy brought on by the Government removing
the incentive to work with all the the free stuff. Those who create the jobs and take the necessary risks to build the economy and invest in it,
deserve to be compensated, not penalized. That is what built this nation. Hopefully the 1% will continue to blow their excess money on Yachts,
Airplanes, Mansions, Businesses, and any number of job creating taxable pursuits.Those who make a living building and servicing and operating these
items don't look at these expensive assets and curse the owners in spite of having a government that encourages just that. The smart ambitious ones
look at them and think with hard work and a few smarts, I will get there one day if I want. At least that has been the case for over 200 years so far.
As Winston Churchill (who is arguably more credible than anyone who has commented here on this subject) was quoted as saying, "We contend that for a
nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle"
Hows that for a simple real world economics lesson you may be able to understand. |
You should read about the
fall of the Roman Empire. In many ways history is repeating itself, debasement of the currency, most wealth flowing to the top, an insolvent
government from the projection of military power, the need for social welfare (bread & circuses) to keep the lower classes from revolting, and a
corrupt and bloated bureaucracy.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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