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BajaMama
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well done on the graphs. I am a fellow scientist and look at the facts.
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Mexitron
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Wesson---do we know why near the end of everyone of those ice ages there's a rapid increase in CO2? It goes gradually down then a relatively fast
increase during the interglacial. Methyl hydrates? Its as if some buffer has been breached. That is what interests me--that heretofore buffering
systems possibly have been absorbing the majority of the CO2 but at some point they will fail. Seems to me the effects of GW have been less than
predicted thus far--that is, from the perspective of what climatologists were saying 20 years ago. Of course I say that as I am planting tomatoes a
month before the official last frost date in North Central Texas in the winter that wasn't. 
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bezzell
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Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  |
When you say you need to study the possibly devastating effects of global whatever, there will be a lot of research money, a good job for you. And
after 5 years and 10 million spent, you publish an alarming report with a lot of possibly, maybe, may, could etc - indication further studies are
needed. Give me another 10 million.
For the scientist voicing that he sees no problems, thinks the planet is just fine - no job for that ignorant dude. |
HA! there's PLENTY of $$ for the scienctist deniers a la Koch Bros et al. What are you talking about? Massive $$ have been spent to deny ... and look
how effective it's been!
Furthermore, scientists are a competetive bunch that love nothing more than to disprove each other ... and yet there's an undeniable consensus.
Deniers are a joke in 2016.
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SFandH
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Melting permafrost, methane hydrates, and global warming.
"In moist areas, most of the emissions will be of methane, a greenhouse gas that has 20 to 25 times more warming power than carbon dioxide. As the
ground warms, methane will either be released directly into the atmosphere or bacteria will break it down into carbon dioxide, which will then be
released. If areas of thawed permafrost exist at depth between frozen layers, it's possible that microbial activities will continue unabated, even
during the winter, to create new methane from organic material.
This is what is believed to be happening around Siberia's lakes. In 2006, researchers working at two northern Siberian lakes found that methane was
bubbling up from thawing permafrost at a rate five times faster than originally thought. The study also found an expansion of "thaw lakes" in the
permafrost regions. Studies conducted in Canadian and Swedish permafrost and peatland regions also show these trends.
Methane hydrates can be thought of as methane gas frozen into ice structures, like the one in Figure 5. They're formed at cold temperatures and under
high pressure—conditions that are both present beneath layers of frozen permafrost."
https://www.wunderground.com/resources/climate/melting_perma...
[Edited on 2-25-2016 by SFandH]
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wessongroup
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Its a good question Mexitron ... and I've also wondered about all the factors in play for an entire planet which have both positive and negative
feedback loops ... and not if they change, but, when and the cause of the change
As others have pointed out ... There are a lot, and their overall interaction is attempted to be understood all the time
The "Environment" is possibly one of the most complex concept humans have come up with and studying it is relatively new
Lots of theories over the years, and many discovery on how interconnected it ALL is ...
But, understanding completely ALL factors is not known, at this time
However, science is really about observation and taking notes and coming up with an explanation .. Which science is trying to as it relates to our®
environment on a scale which really hasn't been studied to the degree we have seen over the past 50 or so years IMO
Perhaps going back to one of the first environmental impacts world wide could be used as an example ... And that was DDT
A chemical substance and/or metabolites which were not toxic to human's, however, it presences in the "food chain" wasn't something that most were
examining at that time and the overall impact was believed to be zero ...
The interrelationship between human actions, to improve their standard of living .. Production of Food and Fiber .. and a material which was effective
in preventing or reducing disease Globally was viewed as only having positives
We have found out ... that human's can impact their environment on a very small scale .. back yard dumping of oil when one changed their oil ...
burning of backyard trash in incinerators ... et al or in the case of DDT contamination of the "Food Chain" with unexpected results ... The most
notable with DDT was the Brown Pelican ... A metabolite of DDT .. reduced the breakdown of bone in the Brown Pelican. This reduction of available
Calcium caused poor eggshell development ... which resulted in fewer offspring each year ... as the shells could stand up to the normal environment in
which they had evolved ... a "factor" had changed .. and that factor was developed by humans ... something we added to the mix of billions or
trillions of existing factors which comprise our environment
Seems a long way from the weather ... but, it's not ... It is all linked together ... by the building blocks of the Universe: Atoms, Dark Energy and
Dark Matter .... just looks different depending on one's point of reference
Fun stuff ... HUH thanks, good thoughts
and thanks for the resize on the pic's .. my bad again
btw ... Alien Colonies ... stranger things have happen 
[Edited on 2-25-2016 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 2-25-2016 by wessongroup]
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MrBillM
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What will Life be like without Polar Bears ?
The same as it is now.
Or better ?
They're disagreeable in any personal encounter.
They don't maintain any important "Natural" balance.
Other than the odd Eskimo (or whatever they're called nowadays) that they eat.
We can round up enough Bears to put in Zoos for the kiddies to view.
And, We've got all those Nat Geo Videos for those really interested.
No Problem.
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4x4abc
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which of course immediately makes you wonder what happened before the 650,000 year span? Especially since they did not say "CO2 was never this high".
Well, it was. Much much higher.
But if you have an agenda (could scientists have an agenda?) you pick your data carefully.
Scientific fact is that at the moment (the last 650,000 years) CO2 levels are unusually low for our planet.
[Edited on 2-25-2016 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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bezzell
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nothing worse than a ponytailed liberal with no palm trees! 
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/25/opinions/sutter-miami-climate-...
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wessongroup
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As to the "ice core samples" ... they could only sample what was there in the ice that is present, at this time
In the graph supplied to counter the other graph (produced from ice core samples) ... What methodology was used to reach those numbers and/or
conclusion with the counter graph which indicates something which has not been found through "ice core samples" or any other scientific investigation
that I'm aware of, at this time
As for the data presented: Population growth, barrels of oil used per day since the commodity (oil) became part and parcel of the Industrial
Revolution, along with the subsequent increase in CO2 levels in the Planet's atmosphere ...
Those are the factors which are specifically under discussion and/or investigation by science at this time ... Human impact on the planet .. which
most reasonable people see there is in fact a relationship
One can dispute the numbers, with other numbers, if available and can be documented via scientific means to validate those "numbers" ... Which the
three graph's I provided do along with the links to the data
I would rather be safe than sorry on the issue of the planets health … some feel that way about personal safety .. which I don’t have a problem with
Keep observing and reporting back … That is their job and feel my taxes are well spent, and I like the Hubble Telescope and can’t wait for the new one
to get working
Who doesn’t want Clean air, Clean water and Land …
Those that DON'T … go stand over there …
That some don’t like what they report back …. Is NOT surprising to me
And its in the News everyday … because weather is a big deal in our lives
As for ponytails ...
[Edited on 2-25-2016 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 2-26-2016 by wessongroup]
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motoged
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Remember Greenpeace?
Paul Watson, one of its founders has this to say.....
https://www.prageru.com/courses/environmental-science/what-they-havent-told-you-about-climate-change#.Vc4sj_lViko
Maybe he drank the KoolAid ?
[Edited on 2-25-2016 by motoged]
[Edited on 2-25-2016 by motoged]
Don't believe everything you think....
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wessongroup
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This may help in the discussion
Evolutionary history of life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_history_of_life#H...
[Edited on 2-26-2016 by wessongroup]
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bajaguy
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Here is the Kool-Aid
https://www.prageru.com/courses/environmental-science/why-i-...
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bezzell
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??
Paul Watson & Patrick Moore (shill) aren't exactly on the same page
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David K
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El Coyote, Bahía Concepción, famous palm on the beach.
In the 1950's:
1952 photo by Howard Gulick
In 1971:
In the 2000's:
2009
2012
Why is the base of this palm tree still above the sea????  
When do we panic?
 
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bezzell
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you have nothing to panic about.
it's very unlikely that you'll see the serious ramifications of humans screwing with the climate. It's not like you'll wake up tomorrow with water
lapping at your feet!
obesity (atherosclerosis) will get ya before the chit hits the fan, BUT surprise, surprise ... it's not about you!
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wessongroup
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To make the argument that "economics" and "health" are not part of the decision making process by Government is false
Examples of these considerations:
Supreme Court Ruling on the Clean Air Act ... regarding Coal
WHO approval on the use of DDT in poor countries .. DDT is still manufactured and used to control malaria ... as there isn't another CHEAP effective
substitute available
Those Chemicals which have been banned in the United States were based in science with total consideration for the Economic and Health consequences
which would occur
It has always been a "trade off" or a "balancing act" to allow for the continued use of "chemicals" to afford one a reasonable standard of living ...
while setting certain tolerance that will allow for that ... with an acceptable Health and/or Environmental "Risk"
However, with continued population increase the "balancing" only gets harder every year ... given the "needs" and/or "wants" of that increasing
population
I do agree that more scientists are needed at the higher level of elected officials ... but, I don't see that ever happening
Based on the number of students who pick up Science as a major ... the majority of majors are still Business and Education ... with science not being
a hot one for most
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d13/tables/dt13_318.20.a...
The impact on decision making in Government and Private Industry should be obvious
And ... check the numbers on the ocean's ... they are very small .. mm or cm ... They will be no Tsunami's ... these numbers in water are similar to
measuring in ppm ... ya don't even see them ... its why they are using lasers to measure
[Edited on 2-26-2016 by wessongroup]
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David K
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| Quote: Originally posted by bezzell |
you have nothing to panic about.
it's very unlikely that you'll see the serious ramifications of humans screwing with the climate. It's not like you'll wake up tomorrow with water
lapping at your feet!
obesity (atherosclerosis) will get ya before the chit hits the fan, BUT surprise, surprise ... it's not about you! |
So, it's the HUMANS screwing the climate and volcanic eruptions, solar flares, and all that NATURAL stuff that has been changing the climate since
time began, is not to blame anymore? :
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bezzell
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
So, it's the HUMANS screwing the climate and volcanic eruptions, solar flares, and all that NATURAL stuff that has been changing the climate since
time began, is not to blame anymore? : |
oiii vey (sigh)
my bad, I forgot. A god is in control.
[Edited on 2-26-2016 by bezzell]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by bezzell |
you have nothing to panic about.
it's very unlikely that you'll see the serious ramifications of humans screwing with the climate. It's not like you'll wake up tomorrow with water
lapping at your feet!
obesity (atherosclerosis) will get ya before the chit hits the fan, BUT surprise, surprise ... it's not about you! |
So, it's the HUMANS screwing the climate and volcanic eruptions, solar flares, and all that NATURAL stuff that has been changing the climate since
time began, is not to blame anymore? : |
Photobucket boy,
You should stick to opining about Toyota Tacoma trims and mission maps and avoid science. Science does not suit you, it seems to make you totally
incapable of reasoning and logic, and occasionally drives you into fits of hysteria.
[Edited on 2-26-2016 by mtgoat666]
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wessongroup
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It is not about "blame" ... rather identifying the causative agents for negative changes we may find ... and then managing them for the benefit of all
... (which isn't a easy task) 
[Edited on 2-26-2016 by wessongroup]
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