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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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Joe says you can ignore, circumvent and break laws.
Anarchy 101
Rather than take the high road of the last word......"change"
Get the FMM Joe......it's FREE for your short "zone" outings.
Or be a decent person and if those "zone" outings are frequent, get the 180 day version. If not, free is about as close to zip as it comes, if your
financial situation deters you from $25 clams for the 180 day version.
$25 bucks for full access to the zone for 6 months....how good does that get Joe? You can stroll the alley to your heart's content without fear of
being jacked up for no "papers"
MX officials who look the other way with your whining of "do I have to" are just idiots. If their jefe knew of this...it.could be in the unemployment
line for them.
Not long ago, there was a "purge" of corrupt agents.
Put up the MX immigration statutes to disprove the need for a short visit FMM and if you can, I can man up and apologize....
So "roll your eyes" Joe, so you can be afoul of the laws of another country once again. What a hero you are.
Remarkable sad and disappointing of you Joe, to openly and bluntly advocate the ignoring of MX norms for immigration.....no matter how short a period.
"Oh...I am only going to the zone officer....don't make me get a FFM ok?"...
When the next stop is El Rosario......yeah buddy.
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
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JohnGaltSpeaking
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 8-3-2018
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Mood: where have all of the smart people gone?
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when FMMs are mentioned I notice everyone brings up the LAW, as if we were forgetting what the LAW means in Mexico and as though it is somehow the
same thing as the United States. are we really forgetting that this is the country where the mordida rules? i have literally seen people roll stop
signs in front of cops, but been pulled over for supposedly going 5 km/h over the speed limit, and paid to get out of that ticket. can that same
sentence be said about the States? does everyone want to start a discussion about how many rolling stops we have been able to make in front of cops
in, say, California or how many CHP officers have accepted a bribe for a speeding ticket? let's not get started on some of these rust buckets that you
see with fake plates and white smoke galore. these cars wouldn't be legal in Mad Max, let alone the States.
relax on the whole not getting an FMM. i was asking because i have never been further than Ensenada and my main inquiry was that of a realistic
expectation as to how important these things are. i had never even heard of these things before. and of course they are the law. hell it says that
right on the website and a link to that website would clearly end the discussion if all we wanted was technical information. but real world
application is different in any country, especially Mexico.
David K said it perfectly... get the damn thing because it is super cheap, but be prepared to never use it because they don't really check it. simple.
other people want to mention ethics and start a political discussion and compare 2 radically different countries... my God. if i wanted the letter of
the law, i'd ask a lawyer. if i wanted a lesson in ethics, i'd talk to a priest. i just want to go down to Mexico and chill, and i want to know how
much "real world" knowledge i have missed out on and what could help me.
and, at least for me, everything has been answered perfectly and i thank those who have thoroughly explained both sides. this message is more for
those hall monitors and boy scouts who pretend they have never knowingly rolled a stop sign in Mexico because they know they can bend the law here.
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bajabuddha
Banned
Posts: 4024
Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
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Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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 So I take it your "why not just skip that part" was a rhetorical
question 
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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Quote: Originally posted by JohnGaltSpeaking  |
when FMMs are mentioned I notice everyone brings up the LAW, as if we were forgetting what the LAW means in Mexico and as though it is somehow the
same thing as the United States. are we really forgetting that this is the country where the mordida rules? |
Mordida or not JGS......it STILL remains a law doesn't it?
It's still a inked statute, approved by legislative houses in either country....Stop at the stop sign. Speed limit xx. No turns here.
Either you make the decision to obey those rules or not....at your own peril. The officer may let you go or not.
Sure some have had problems with the "shake down" from the MX officers from time to time.....
It's not an easy situation in MX...they have the power to ruin your day and you're left with little to do about it.
Some choose the "take me to the judge" route and some choose to pay the fine "on the spot"
I don't think that any kind of "gringo" complaining is going to end it all in one fell swoop either. Like rampant littering......it takes years and
years to break those bad habits by education and a slow boil of built up condemnation.
Non citizens have zero, to nil voice, in how the wheels of justice turn here.
Accept what it is or don't.....that's the bottom line.
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JohnGaltSpeaking
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 8-3-2018
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Mood: where have all of the smart people gone?
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so simple to understand
this isn't about whether or not FMMs are the law. clearly they are, website says so. it's about real world expectations of said law.
this is a simple concept (unless you just want to keep arguing)...
take for example drinking and driving (which is just an example, don't go nuts people)... if i walk out of a bar, loaded at say, 2 pm and on another
day walk out of the same bar as loaded at 2 am is drinking and driving less legal in either circumstance? no, of course not. but what are the odds of
driving through a DUI checkpoint at 2 pm compared to 2 am? it is extremely simple to understand.
there are many laws, all i was wondering about FMMs is what time is it? is an FMM a 2 pm DUI checkpoint or a 2 am checkpoint? simple.
and before you go nuts... yes, it is my choice and i am ethically obligated to follow the law and this and that, great, i get it. but this is about
information, not about what people think that i should or shouldn't do.
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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Not sure I understand just what it is that is your beef here John.
You have been explained what the law is, you agreed with that law.
If you choose to ignore it in the hopes of an officer won't care, or it's the local customs..or the likelihood of getting caught is small... is rather
risky if you ask me.
Just sayin......
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Do as you please, of course. It's really nobody else's business.
I think the important info to be gleaned from all this babble is that the Mex officials are starting to enforce the FMM rule by setting up spot checks
along the highway, whereas before there was little enforcement.
I've read about recent spot checks south of Ensenada, south of Santa Rosalia, and near Loreto. And I've encountered them at the BC/BCS state line and
on the beach at Playa Santispac.
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JohnGaltSpeaking
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 8-3-2018
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Mood: where have all of the smart people gone?
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not sure I understand just what it is that is your beef here John.
You have been explained what the law is, you agreed with that law.
If you choose to ignore it in the hopes of an officer won't care, or it's the local customs..or the likelihood of getting caught is small... is rather
risky if you ask me.
Just sayin......
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no beef. i literally already made my trip and didn't get an FMM. i am just responding to other people and their misunderstanding of the question. what
kind of risk is all that i was asking. i never heard of an FMM and initially figured that is was like when the border asked for passports; for a while
they were tough, and now not so much. but i didn't know the riskiness of the FMM debate so i asked. if such a simple question can't be understood or
goes off the rails, i'm willing to keep talking about it; no beef, doesn't bother me. some people get it, some don't and keep repeating the essence of
a law or make it a moral issue.
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JohnGaltSpeaking
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 8-3-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: where have all of the smart people gone?
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
Do as you please, of course. It's really nobody else's business.
I think the important info to be gleaned from all this babble is that the Mex officials are starting to enforce the FMM rule by setting up spot checks
along the highway, whereas before there was little enforcement.
I've read about recent spot checks south of Ensenada, south of Santa Rosalia, and near Loreto. And I've encountered them at the BC/BCS state line and
on the beach at Playa Santispac.
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perfectly said. nothing but the info necessary. i don't even know if you agree with getting it or not because it doesn't matter. all the matters is
the info, which you provided perfectly. the choice is up to you. other posts are so off the rails, when yours is spot on. 
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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just thinking out loud....wouldn't it be great if mexico joined these countries that require zero paperwork to enter? or at least go back to the
"free zone" that worked so well?
With 159 countries that Americans can travel to visa-free, it's quite a long list. To start, 110 countries allow Americans to travel there completely
without a visa, meaning there is zero paperwork involved, and travelers can simply "show up" and enter these countries with only a passport.
Albania
Andorra
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Austria
Bahamas
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brunei
Bulgaria
Canada
Chile
Colombia
Costa Rica
Croatia
Cyprus
Czechia
Denmark
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
Estonia
Fiji
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Hong Kong
Hungary
Iceland
Indonesia
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Kazakhstan
Kiribati
Kosovo
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lesotho
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macao
Macedonia
Malaysia
Malta
Marshall Islands
Mauritius
Mexico
Micronesia
Moldova
Monaco
Mongolia
Montenegro
Morocco
Namibia
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Norway
Palau
Palestinian territories
Panama
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
San Marino
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Serbia
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Africa
South Korea
Spain
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Swaziland
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Ukraine
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Vanuatu
Vatican City
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bajabuddha
Banned
Posts: 4024
Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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So I take it this was a rhetorical statement too....
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not sure I understand just what it is that is your beef here John.
You have been explained what the law is, you agreed with that law.
If you choose to ignore it in the hopes of an officer won't care, or it's the local customs..or the likelihood of getting caught is small... is rather
risky if you ask me.
Just sayin......
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I must have missed where John agreed with the law. I think you DD have been listening to yourself and others keep saying, it's the law, it's the law.
If anything, I think John is getting confused about the conflicting information that some of you are giving him by telling him get the FMM card, but
also telling him, he is unlikely to be asked to show his FMM card. ( of course now some are claiming check points are being set up to check for FMM
cards. I wonder what's the penalty anybody paid for not having a FMM card)
If I recall John's post, he didn't even have a passport, so how is he going to get the FMM card?
I'm not going to guess why John, doesn't have a passport, but others have complained about the cost, and some can't get a passport for other various
legal reasons, and for things like past child support or back taxes.
And I'm here to tell guys like John, if you drive into Mexico, and aren't stopped at the border, you are good to go. You're unlikely to be stopped in
Mexico, and asked to show your FMM card, and for sure, you will be able to get back into the US with just that driver's license if you're a US
Citizen.
Of course if you listen to guys like DD, you would just stay home.
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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This whole thread has gotten tedious....It appears as those who don't want to comply are really just cheap bastridges.....
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6027
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
Member Is Online
Mood: Retireded
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In Jan 2001 I was headed down the mainland west coast, but left all my proof of citizenship at home. I was not able to get a permit for either my
vehicle or myself, but was told that all of Baja was open without any documents!
It was eleven years before I returned, and because of the 911 attack, I knew I needed a passport, so I got one. When I reached the border I enquired
about any new requirements for getting a tourist permit , and was told that none was needed in Baja.
Over the next two years I made three more trips, blissfully unaware that an FMM was required! It was in 2014 that I found this forum, and learned of
it's existence, and requirement.
My point is, unless you know what to do, or who to ask, there is no indication at any crossing that I know of, to point you in the right direction!
I am also one of those who has never been asked for either the FMM or passport, other than when getting the FMM. Even the US border agents ask for
"proof of citizenship".
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by AKgringo]
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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JohnGaltSpeaking
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 8-3-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: where have all of the smart people gone?
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not sure I understand just what it is that is your beef here John.
You have been explained what the law is, you agreed with that law.
If you choose to ignore it in the hopes of an officer won't care, or it's the local customs..or the likelihood of getting caught is small... is rather
risky if you ask me.
Just sayin......
|
I must have missed where John agreed with the law. I think you DD have been listening to yourself and others keep saying, it's the law, it's the law.
If anything, I think John is getting confused about the conflicting information that some of you are giving him by telling him get the FMM card, but
also telling him, he is unlikely to be asked to show his FMM card. ( of course now some are claiming check points are being set up to check for FMM
cards. I wonder what's the penalty anybody paid for not having a FMM card)
If I recall John's post, he didn't even have a passport, so how is he going to get the FMM card?
I'm not going to guess why John, doesn't have a passport, but others have complained about the cost, and some can't get a passport for other various
legal reasons, or things like past child report.
And I'm here to tell guys like John, if you drive into Mexico, and aren't stopped at the border, you are good to go. You're likely to be stopped in
Mexico, and asked to show your FMM card, and for sure, you will be able to get back into the US with just that driver's license if you're a US
Citizen.
Of course if you listen to guys like DD, you would just stay home. |
where have you been Joe? haha. better late than never i guess.
that's exactly why i was inquiring. i don't have a passport because i never needed one. at least not enough to justify the cost. i've been to TJ a few
times, Ensenada even less, and literally nowhere else outside of the US. even when the put in effect the whole passport at the border thing, i was
never hassled for just having my driver's license. maybe i got lucky, or maybe they just aren't looking for guys like me; white as snow and no
criminal record. i met my girlfriend at a party in San Diego and she eventually wanted to me meet her parents, who live in San Quintin. surfing
BajaNomad for travel information, i came across the FMM stuff which, upon further research yes, you need a valid passport for an FMM and hence the
post. not really a question of cheapness, but i am not going to let paranoia set in from a bunch of hall monitors who would rather debate and point
fingers, than listen to the question.
and that is a great point, and kind of answers the question more than anything... what is the cost of the fine for not having an FMM? i mean that fact
that nobody has really said that they have been ever fined for not having one kind of says it all really.
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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At least you don't tear labels off mattresses and furniture, or run with scissors. That would be a serious scofflaw in my book. The feds never seem
to mention those criminals, now do they?
John
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by John Harper]
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not sure I understand just what it is that is your beef here John.
You have been explained what the law is, you agreed with that law.
If you choose to ignore it in the hopes of an officer won't care, or it's the local customs..or the likelihood of getting caught is small... is rather
risky if you ask me.
Just sayin......
|
I must have missed where John agreed with the law. I think you DD have been listening to yourself and others keep saying, it's the law, it's the law.
If anything, I think John is getting confused about the conflicting information that some of you are giving him by telling him get the FMM card, but
also telling him, he is unlikely to be asked to show his FMM card. ( of course now some are claiming check points are being set up to check for FMM
cards. I wonder what's the penalty anybody paid for not having a FMM card)
If I recall John's post, he didn't even have a passport, so how is he going to get the FMM card?
I'm not going to guess why John, doesn't have a passport, but others have complained about the cost, and some can't get a passport for other various
legal reasons, and for things like past child support or back taxes.
And I'm here to tell guys like John, if you drive into Mexico, and aren't stopped at the border, you are good to go. You're likely to be stopped in
Mexico, and asked to show your FMM card, and for sure, you will be able to get back into the US with just that driver's license if you're a US
Citizen.
Of course if you listen to guys like DD, you would just stay home.
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by JoeJustJoe] |
Or listen to Joe.....just a wink and a nod with "Do I really have to have a FMM"
Pffff
JohnGaltSpeaking...."i had never even heard of these things before. and of course they are the law. hell it says that right on the website and a link
to that website would clearly end the discussion"
JGS knew the law....he said he saw the website...."clearly end the discussion"....
He chose to ignore that law, like Joe does, and run the gauntlet.
I don't care.....his choice....Joe's choice.
But don't come back on here one day and whine and hollar "I got jacked up for no FMM and Joe told me it would be ok with just a wink and a nod.
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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could there be a reason mexico isn't over zealous about checking paperwork? this from Rodulfo Figueroa, mexico's top immigration official in baja.
"This is about putting our house in order," Figueroa said, according to the AP. "If the line becomes clogged up, we will just let everybody through.
If we can't check everybody, we won't."
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BajaTed
Senior Nomad
Posts: 859
Registered: 5-2-2010
Location: Bajamar
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A passport will expedite obtaining a "Real ID" type drivers license from whatever state your from.
If you want to get on one of those things called an airplane owned by an airline, you'll have to have one in 2020.
If you renew your drivers license through mail with the DMV, guess what, NO "Real ID" will be issued, you wasted your time.
Why do you think the CA DMV lines are around the block????
Its because of REAL ID and they got to take idiots who don't have a passport, and then present Birth Certificates for proof, that document now goes
behind the counter to another room for verification, add ten minutes to each person.
My SENTRI & GOES with my Passport are worth their weight in gold, pity those in the future with out . The past now has consequences
Es Todo Bueno
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed | A passport will expedite obtaining a "Real ID" type drivers license from whatever state your from.
If you want to get on one of those things called an airplane owned by an airline, you'll have to have one in 2020.
If you renew your drivers license through mail with the DMV, guess what, NO "Real ID" will be issued, you wasted your time.
Why do you think the CA DMV lines are around the block????
Its because of REAL ID and they got to take idiots who don't have a passport, and then present Birth Certificates for proof, that document now goes
behind the counter to another room for verification, add ten minutes to each person.
My SENTRI & GOES with my Passport are worth their weight in gold, pity those in the future with out . The past now has consequences
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Oh man, it took me more than 6 hours, standing in line getting that "Real ID" in California, and I took my passcard, with me, so that wasn't the
delay, and a long as your have a certified copy of a birth certificate that will work. The delay was me not making an appointment, and all the lying
people who said they had an appointment when they probably didn't. It's the last time I play the sucker, because after a few hours of waiting, they
only seemed to call mostly people with an appointments numbers, while I waited and waited.
Maybe, soon I will be able to cross into Mexico, with only my real ID drivers license, and leave my passport/passcard at home. Of course, If I
forgot my passport, and I wanted to cross the border, I would not hesitate crossing with just a DL.
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