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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Quote: Originally posted by JZ  |
What is not in doubt is ppl have been using one declared climate crisis after another for 60 years to raise money and influence voting.
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Silly little person, that’s how the political system works.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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I get this question in my inbox from time to time...
Censorship is me using the rule of law to stop you from saying you what you want to say anywhere.
I look at forum moderation as a way to say “we don’t do that here.” That doesn’t push my personal morality or political beliefs on anyone. If
they want to post that very same comment elsewhere, they are free to do so and I’m not telling them not to.
Moderation is our way of letting a user know that their comments are not in line with the our group/forum theme and/or governing values. I look at
moderation as a social consequence.
Group and forum rules are boundaries to keep a particular social community on track with the stated central theme and to enforce values that reflect
the intent of the group/forum owner; rules that are refined over time with feedback from our online social community.
Moderation is not personal - I have often moderated the comments of close friends, simply because their comments run afoul of the clearly stated rules
they accepted to follow when joining our group/forum.
It's my way of saying "we don't do that here," as you might say to a guest in your home who swears loudly or wishes to argue politics around the
Thanksgiving dinner table.
Did you censor him/her? Or was it just your way of saying "we don't do that here. All moderation decisions on a group or forum boil down to “we
don’t do that here”.
What makes this different from censorship? Moderation lacks the force of law.
A group or forum admin can delete a comment and even suspend or ban a user for continuing to disregard the rules but we can’t stop that user from
posting their comments elsewhere.
Just as you might ask someone to leave your home when they refuse to honor your requests to behave while a guest there but they are free to do so
elsewhere, just not in your home.
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10541
Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo |
I get this question in my inbox from time to time...
Censorship is me using the rule of law to stop you from saying you what you want to say anywhere.
I look at forum moderation as a way to say “we don’t do that here.” That doesn’t push my personal morality or political beliefs on anyone. If
they want to post that very same comment elsewhere, they are free to do so and I’m not telling them not to.
Moderation is our way of letting a user know that their comments are not in line with the our group/forum theme and/or governing values. I look at
moderation as a social consequence.
Group and forum rules are boundaries to keep a particular social community on track with the stated central theme and to enforce values that reflect
the intent of the group/forum owner; rules that are refined over time with feedback from our online social community.
Moderation is not personal - I have often moderated the comments of close friends, simply because their comments run afoul of the clearly stated rules
they accepted to follow when joining our group/forum.
It's my way of saying "we don't do that here," as you might say to a guest in your home who swears loudly or wishes to argue politics around the
Thanksgiving dinner table.
Did you censor him/her? Or was it just your way of saying "we don't do that here. All moderation decisions on a group or forum boil down to “we
don’t do that here”.
What makes this different from censorship? Moderation lacks the force of law.
A group or forum admin can delete a comment and even suspend or ban a user for continuing to disregard the rules but we can’t stop that user from
posting their comments elsewhere.
Just as you might ask someone to leave your home when they refuse to honor your requests to behave while a guest there but they are free to do so
elsewhere, just not in your home.
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What is your take on Facebook working with the Govt. to censor some messages?
https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/nypost.com/2022/11...
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by JZ]
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo |
I get this question in my inbox from time to time...
Censorship is me using the rule of law to stop you from saying you what you want to say anywhere.
I look at forum moderation as a way to say “we don’t do that here.” That doesn’t push my personal morality or political beliefs on anyone. If
they want to post that very same comment elsewhere, they are free to do so and I’m not telling them not to.
Moderation is our way of letting a user know that their comments are not in line with the our group/forum theme and/or governing values. I look at
moderation as a social consequence.
Group and forum rules are boundaries to keep a particular social community on track with the stated central theme and to enforce values that reflect
the intent of the group/forum owner; rules that are refined over time with feedback from our online social community.
Moderation is not personal - I have often moderated the comments of close friends, simply because their comments run afoul of the clearly stated rules
they accepted to follow when joining our group/forum.
It's my way of saying "we don't do that here," as you might say to a guest in your home who swears loudly or wishes to argue politics around the
Thanksgiving dinner table.
Did you censor him/her? Or was it just your way of saying "we don't do that here. All moderation decisions on a group or forum boil down to “we
don’t do that here”.
What makes this different from censorship? Moderation lacks the force of law.
A group or forum admin can delete a comment and even suspend or ban a user for continuing to disregard the rules but we can’t stop that user from
posting their comments elsewhere.
Just as you might ask someone to leave your home when they refuse to honor your requests to behave while a guest there but they are free to do so
elsewhere, just not in your home.
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What is your take on Facebook working with the Govt. to censor some messages?
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I think they have taken it too far but I don't believe it is so much political as simply political correctness on steroids.
I say that because I see the Facebook feedback they give me justifying their reasons for removing a post or comment made and it often borders on
ridiculous. But it crosses into both political camps.
Now they have added a new "feature" into our admin dashboard labled as "Flagged by Facebook" where they see potential confilcts escalating in
discussions, pushing us to direct our attention to those threads.
Sometimes they are right but largely they misinterpret the mood where comments are clearly made tonque in cheek and joking. I largely fault their use
of inadequately coded AI given the moderation power that Facebook bestows on them.
However the experience last year of having one of our groups - a Spanish language group for the San Quintin area that had grown to over 160K members -
be completely removed by Facebook for lax moderation taught me that if I intend to stay on Facebook, I will have to follow their rules.
They are clearly telling me “we don’t do that here,” and it's my decision to stay or leave. Solely due to the enormouse size of our online
community there, I choose to stay for now but the building of the platform at talkbaja.com was designed to provide an offramp for our members who
decide for themselves that they are no longer willing to do so.
And believe me, I get it.
In the meantime, as long as we never grow so big that I am forced to convert to AI moderation, I think we'll be OK with good men and women helping me
moderate our community, keeping us on track and generally civil.
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by BajaGringo]
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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I hadn't seen the link when I responded, I assume you edited to add?
Reading that - in my mind it clearly crosses the line into censorship. Could valid cases be made regarding threats to human life or even national
security?
Sure, but my kneejerk reaction would be to trust those requests coming from law enforcement or the Pentagon much more than from the White House, no
matter which party is the current occupant.
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by BajaGringo]
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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I originally asked the question because I don’t see the Corporate “public squares” as being moderated with an equal hand. I would define
“Moderation” as most people see it, as something that they agree with and “Censorship” as something they don’t.
There has been a growing tendency over my lifetime and in my personal opinion to try and accomplish social change by means other than letting the
issue be decided at the ballot box.
This tendency predates the internet. There was and still is a rather large group of generally like minded people in what could be loosely grouped as
the media/information industry who wish to push their vision of what society should look like.
No one voted for any of these individuals past watching or reading their products and buying their soap.
They share a common tendency to be rather dismissive and intolerant of ideas that don’t support or agree with their goals. They also share a
tendency to overlook and even protect the personal weaknesses of their peers and those who can further their goals.
They do use moderation to censor ideas and individuals they see as a threat or who just disagree with them.
I can speak to this because I worked with and for a number of these people for decades.
The 1st Amendment should apply to all public forums and it should be remembered that anti-discrimination laws even apply to private clubs.
Obviously there is speech that should be banned the devil is in the how is that decided and by who.
Past a belief that more not less speech should be tolerated the answer is above my paygrade.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3823
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
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My dos centavos. Baja Nomad has experienced declining activity as compared to several years ago. Many of the regular posters who were "old timers"
and had lots of stories to tell and experiences to share have passed away. And though there are still plenty of Baja travelers these days, I would
bet the majority are of the fly into Cabo, party for a week at an all-inclusive and fly out variety. Not BajaNomad fodder. Snowbirds from Canada in
their RVs - ditto. The Overlander App crowd - not into maps and the subtleties that lie therein. The "I'm going to LaPaz what should I do there?"
mentality -- the Talk Baja crowd. Those people are so lame. And if there is a hint of criticism in a reply on Talk Baja you are suspended - I've
gotten suspended there twice already. So I appreciate my freedom on BajaNomad to sling an appropriate insult now and then. In sum, the mode and
mentality of travel in Baja California is changing, as well as new development with its fences and private lands (i.e., road to San Fernando mission -
used to be one of my favorite camping spots), and old dirt roads which are no longer passable due to storms (e.g. the road from El Alamo to Rio San
Ignacio). As for me, I'm getting older and don't have a newish 4WD vehicle to ensure to a great extent a successful journey to off-the-beaten-path
locales by myself. My wonderful, fearless travel buddy has passed away. Recent stories like Rod __? and his dog who disappeared from Juncalito area
give me pause. (But this is the type of info that Baja travelers need to know and learned on BajaNomad -- and its concomitant lessons: I don't think
I will ever travel with my bank debit card any longer.) I will continue to travel to Baja, but with other destinations in the world to choose to spend
the travel dollar, will likely be fewer trips than in the past. Nonetheless, BajaNomad is a unique website for all things Baja, with its wealth of
archived trip reports, up to the minute storm reports, photos, etc. - invaluable. Posters have always come through when I have a question - where
else would I get that advice.
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4918
Registered: 5-6-2016
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"The 1st Amendment should apply to all public forums..."
Are you aware that so-called "public" forums are actually privately owned? The advertiser(s) finance the running of the site, and can decide to use
any moderators they choose to, or close the forum down at any time.
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10541
Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo |
I hadn't seen the link when I responded, I assume you edited to add?
Reading that - in my mind it clearly crosses the line into censorship. Could valid cases be made regarding threats to human life or even national
security?
Sure, but my kneejerk reaction would be to trust those requests coming from law enforcement or the Pentagon much more than from the White House, no
matter which party is the current occupant.
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Agree 100%.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | "The 1st Amendment should apply to all public forums..."
Are you aware that so-called "public" forums are actually privately owned? The advertiser(s) finance the running of the site, and can decide to use
any moderators they choose to, or close the forum down at any time.
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A strong argument can be made that certain privately-owned and investor-owned social media are monopolies that serve a public good and should be
regulated like elec, water and telecom utilities, and they should be regulated at state level by public service commissions.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark |
They share a common tendency to be rather dismissive and intolerant of ideas that don’t support or agree with their goals. They also share a
tendency to overlook and even protect the personal weaknesses of their peers and those who can further their goals.
They do use moderation to censor ideas and individuals they see as a threat or who just disagree with them. |
As far as the press goes, today there are plenty of network options, ranging from the extreme left to hardcore right, supporting everything from
outright racism to ridiculous woke extremism.
What is extremely difficult to find these days is a news network in the format style of Walter Conkrite, simply presenting the news - the known facts
- without slanted bias or adding any personal opinions / commentary.
Facebook however is another animal IMHO.
As one who has been deeply involved in building and managing discussion forum structures going back to the early BBS days of the late 1970's and early
80's, I have seen how it has evolved to where we are today and as a lifetime conservative who changed his registration from Republican to Independent
in 2016, I can assure you that from my view here in the middle, that moderation cutting knife slices fairly evenly on Facebook.
On Twitter, I would agree it has been biased to favor the left.
I have studied Zuckerberg for a long time and have come to the conclusion that as far as his management of Facebook, he is largely apolitical. For
every comment or post deleted pushing Republican talking points, I can show you an equal number of talking points from the Democrats that were removed
as well.
But when we look at it from a biased eye we tend to only notice when they remove those posts or comments made which we support politically.
I despised Donald Trump and what he has turned our political structure into and during 2020, Facebook deleted literally hundreds of my comments and
posts that spoke out against him. If you follow anything I post online, I do not make personal threats, use foul language or espouse hate speach; I
simply pointed out my reasons for not supporting him and they were constantly moderated by Facebook, including one group I started and a few pages
that were completely taken down by Facebook.
I also saw the very same action taken to pages and groups supporting Trump on Facebook.
That's when I realized that Mark's long term goal is to make Facebook a space that complies with his extreme definition of Political Correctness that
is enforced by AI moderation that allows for little recourse or appeal.
Facebook does offer an appeal process but I have only personally witnessed them reverse an AI modetration call just a few times of the hundreds of
appeals I have made over the years on my own behalf as well as for deleted comments and posts from our members.
Zuckerberg's reasoning can only be revenue generated.
Reading between the lines of his comments made to his shareholders, his goal is to make sure he keeps us all engaged while abiding by his strict rules
of PC to help broaden the reach of his online audience.
Doing so (he believes) will keep increasing the size of the overall Facebook community while "offending" as few as possible to help him keep
increasing the advertising revenue on his platform.
With Zuckerberg, it's all about the money and little to do with political bias IMHO. But human nature tends to make us more sensitive to the
moderation when it aligns with our personal point of view.
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by BajaGringo]
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
Member Is Offline
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It truly would be unfortunate if a site such as this one would follow all the other similar sites and die just because people could not accept other
people's opinions.
This site was suggested to me as a helpful place to obtain information regarding my new home, and it has certainly accomplished that for me.
I have watched others chase helpful people around any thread they chose to open and trash them personally just because they obviously support an
opposing political party, with nothing to add to the subject posted. It just happens that those same people have voluntarily contributed a fair amount
for my benefit and I am thankful for the aid they offered.
This is where moderators come in, and rightly so. Please let the rest of us continue to benefit by the experiences and knowledge they are willing to
offer without trying to chase them off "YOUR" site.
And special thanks to the person that formed this site, it remains a wealth of knowledge for people looking for answers despite the personal
conflicts
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by JDCanuck]
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho | | Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo | | As one who has been deeply involved in building and managing discussion forum structures going back to the early BBS days of the late 1970's and early
80's, |
That was indeed early days. What platforms were those?
I was active with CompuServe, the Well and Usenet, but it sounds like you predated even those. 
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by lencho] |
I owned and managed independent testing labs and we had a contract with JPL in Pasadena to conduct a testing program of the fluids and lubricants that
were specified in the design and building of the ISS.
JPL wanted their testing data in real time so they came to our main lab and installed a UNIX based computer system and hardware that would connect us
via ARPANET.
From there it would expand and branch out with an increasing amount of messaging traffic moving into some of the other online systems like usenet but
as I recall, most of the data transfer happened over ARPANET for a number of years.
I believe it was on the usenet (or might have been the bitnet?) that I built and managed the first BBS systems that were really quite simple but the
Phd's at NASA and JPL loved it and went at it like angry kids on the playground at recess.
And that's where I first began developing my skills in online moderation.
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by BajaGringo]
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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S,
Are you aware that Facebook & Twitter like commercial forums have a special dispensation on regulating content and users as long as they don’t
regulate in a way that favors a particular lawful viewpoint.
When they enforce the views of any government, agency, or group by delisting or removal of counter legal viewpoints they are in violation of their
exemption. Since the current federal Administration is delighted by this suppression and loves the campaign contributions. Nothing is done about it.
Tomorrow could see that change!
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4918
Registered: 5-6-2016
Member Is Offline
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Goat and RF Clark, I was not referring to huge social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter, etc. I was referring to independent forums like this
one and other small special interest forums, generally owned by someone, often the main advertiser.
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by surabi]
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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S,
Size is not the issue. The same rules apply! Sites that receive revenue from ads and or clicks, are to my knowledge covered. Sites that require
membership might not be as long as the content is lawful. What is “lawful” has become a very slippery concept recently. The news media and talking
heads do not define “lawful”. You are not required to prove that your conduct is or was lawful. The burden of proof falls on the government. The
10th amendment applies to states and localities equally.
Canada is very different. The Charter of Rights places the Federal Parliament as supreme.
Mexico is even worse!
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Down memory lane
Wow! Not a whole lot has changed I see. Looks like I last posted in 2010. It was a tumultuous end for me at BN. After being accused of being
nefarious with Nomad donations in the aftermath of Hurricane John, I realized that the trust was gone.
I posted dollar amounts and actual photos of the gear purchased and delivered to the bomberos, yet a couple people believed I had done something else
with their donation. That was after being grossed out by a constant deluge of perverse GIFs in the off-topic, which spilled over daily into the forum.
So Skipjack, there is the reason for my departure. The politics got ugly so I decided to go check out TalkBaja.
I was immediately sucked into a political fray with Ron who did not tolerate me equating some of his remarks to Trump. I get that. What could be
worse? It was a new bad experience for me and so I abandoned social media for many years after that. It's hard not to get personal with politics
sometimes and the wording sometimes doesn't translate well.
I still lurk at BN and feel unwelcome at TB. I suppose had I known exactly how sensitive Ron was I would never have engaged him politically. That was
12 years ago and I am still upset(kidding of course). I suppose I just did not accept or understand his "Independent" stance.
BN had it's day the in the sun and the final straw for me is when Doug told me in a PM that my days of being popular were over. He was right of
course but that's no way to treat your members. It is a wealth of info at BN but like was said appeals to fewer people who have myriad options now.
It really bothered me when the emoticon:  I designed for Doug was
claimed to have been made by them.
In our restaurant I don't do politics but boy that doesn't stop the loudest ones. Sheesh. Looks like Ron has his hands full. Good luck to you all. It was a cool site for a long time. Even with you DK! I do appreciate you giving me credit for finding your "wall".  That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Y'all have a good holiday season. As one
infamous Nomad (Gene?) once said, done here!
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo |
| Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe | Facebook killed this site. When Ron Gomez created Talk Baja he pretty much gutted Nomads. But I recall a time when Ron was hospitalized and Nomads
donated thousands of dollars for his hospital bills.
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And Igor, for you to imply that Cristina and I aren’t eternally grateful to the members of this community who stepped up when we were hospitalized,
you are gravely mistaken and I deeply resent the insinuation.
Our attackers not only left us for dead but robbed us of our personal effects which included my wallet, her purse, all of our IDs and bank cards. We
had ZERO access to our accounts and I was in a coma. Once I was released from the hospital, it took several days for me to be able to walk assisted
into a bank and begin the process to reestablish access to our accounts. When I did, I publicly and sincerely thanked EVERYONE here on Nomad who had
helped and at the same time offered to reimburse anybody who had contributed to our hospital care.
A few did write me and I gladly paid them back, thanking them again for stepping up and helping out. To imply that I don’t appreciate this community
and especially Doug and all his investment of time and expense over the years is a total and complete misrepresentation of reality.
[Edited on 11-7-2022 by BajaGringo] |
You are absolutely right, Ron, and I apologize for that remark. It does insinuate something and it was wrong to make any connection. I really don't
know why I wrote that. It was a cheap shot. Anyway, I don't think anyone really regretted helping out financially and would even do so today. An
interesting question: would such a callout provide the same help today on TalkBaja?
Regarding the gutting of Nomads. I never stated that that was the intention. I didn't even imply that it was the creation of a new venue rather than
the advantages of a more powerful technology that was responsible. But the fact remains that there were 30,000 registered users in the first year at
Talk Baja and there aren't enough comments on Nomads each day to fill half a page. So one went up and the other went down. Maybe it's just a
coincidence but I don't think so. I don't even think it's the level moderation so much. It's technology. For example: I am writing you this response
and I have no idea if you'll read it. However, had this been written on Talk Baja you would receive a notification as soon as I finished my post. It's
stuff like that that gutted Nomads.
Nomads has died of a thousand blows, some of which could have been avoided but most could not. I don't begrudge the success of Talk Baja. At least
they don't allow 2 or 3 people to dominate a website with mind numbing repetition.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sharksbaja |
I was immediately sucked into a political fray with Ron who did not tolerate me equating some of his remarks to Trump. I get that. What could be
worse? It was a new bad experience for me and so I abandoned social media for many years after that. It's hard not to get personal with politics
sometimes and the wording sometimes doesn't translate well.
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Sorry for that amigo and I admit that I have some regrets over the ways I handled some exchanges in the early going - especiallly involving politics.
There was a lot of some very extreme abuse directed my way back then that I didn't share publicly that was 100% from the GOP - a party I had been
loyal to since I was old enough to vote, angry with me that I simply was not willing to accompany them in their big shift to the extreme right fringe.
I am an Independent today and I believe there is a LOT wrong in BOTH major parties as both are being run now by the extreme fringes of each side who
now have their spineless mainstream politicians by the short hairs.
The entire experience did indeed leave a mark on me and I probably over reacted at times, especially with anything I interpreted as being pushed on me
from the right. I accept that and I sincerely apologize to you if I did with you at that time.
The only positive that came out of it was that the entire experience did help me to develop much thicker skin and a better rules and a moderation
program which today I must also comply with. It is is working, based on our growth, traffic numbers and member retention/participation as well as
overall feedback I get each day.
You are always welcome back and PM me or email me if you'd prefer to talk offline.
Peace...
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by wilderone | | My dos centavos. Baja Nomad has experienced declining activity as compared to several years ago. Many of the regular posters who were "old timers"
and had lots of stories to tell and experiences to share have passed away. And though there are still plenty of Baja travelers these days, I would
bet the majority are of the fly into Cabo, party for a week at an all-inclusive and fly out variety. Not BajaNomad fodder. Snowbirds from Canada in
their RVs - ditto. The Overlander App crowd - not into maps and the subtleties that lie therein. The "I'm going to LaPaz what should I do there?"
mentality -- the Talk Baja crowd. Those people are so lame. And if there is a hint of criticism in a reply on Talk Baja you are suspended - I've
gotten suspended there twice already. So I appreciate my freedom on BajaNomad to sling an appropriate insult now and then. In sum, the mode and
mentality of travel in Baja California is changing, as well as new development with its fences and private lands (i.e., road to San Fernando mission -
used to be one of my favorite camping spots), and old dirt roads which are no longer passable due to storms (e.g. the road from El Alamo to Rio San
Ignacio). As for me, I'm getting older and don't have a newish 4WD vehicle to ensure to a great extent a successful journey to off-the-beaten-path
locales by myself. My wonderful, fearless travel buddy has passed away. Recent stories like Rod __? and his dog who disappeared from Juncalito area
give me pause. (But this is the type of info that Baja travelers need to know and learned on BajaNomad -- and its concomitant lessons: I don't think
I will ever travel with my bank debit card any longer.) I will continue to travel to Baja, but with other destinations in the world to choose to spend
the travel dollar, will likely be fewer trips than in the past. Nonetheless, BajaNomad is a unique website for all things Baja, with its wealth of
archived trip reports, up to the minute storm reports, photos, etc. - invaluable. Posters have always come through when I have a question - where
else would I get that advice. |
Thank you for this thoughtful post. I agree with most of it. It's refreshing to see a post on this thread that's not of the tit for tat variety (see
palm tree comments that have been continuing for over a decade).
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