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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
| Quote: | Originally posted by Burbs
The BajaNomad is NOT the place for us to post our supporting LEGAL documents. A Mexican court is the place for showing supporting documents.
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I couldn't agree more.
Some folks just need to meet in person and square their own personal chiite away betwixt themselves. |
I agree that would be the ideal course of action but it wasn't me who asked them to start airing their dirty laundry here in the first place. Too late
to close that corral gate now IMHO...
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
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Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Would offer "if" one wishes ... do third party independent verification ... using the "Documents" cases reference file number to the agency where
doubt exists ...
That usually puts it to bed ... either there is "said" document on file, or there is not
Kinda like the way Lobsterman approaches "full disclosure" or something pretty close ... he doesn't hide too much ... IMHO
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Burbs
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I haven't read the entire thread but enough to decide that nobody outside of the two parties involved know what the REAL truth is. Not even those who
signed leases and built homes there are clear as to who owns what. For any of the rest of us to pretend to know better is ridiculous.
Now back to my seat on the sidelines... |
The BajaNomad is NOT the place for us to post our supporting LEGAL documents. A Mexican court is the place for showing supporting documents.
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I agree with both of these statements.
We Nomads can't know because we were not involved. I do know Olivia and Marc though. I was just in their restaurant two weeks ago when everyone else
was too afraid to go near there. I wanted to show support and Olivia made a great Margarita for me.
They don't have to show legal documents here for our entertainment...and that is what it is on this forum.
I have never met Munoz. For Woooosh, he has been a wealth of legal information so I can understand his bias. But I have witnessed lawyers in the U.S.
who make it a business to steal property and know full well how to do it...with supporting legal documents.
For all of his vehemence, verbiage and velocity, he is smothering with his barrage of documents. Can any of you truly follow all of that and make
sense of it? He addles the mind. You supporters are claiming to be impressed by the volume of documentation he presents. But how could you understand
the content? Most of you are not lawyers, and you are certainly not Mexican lawyers. You are amateurs who are receiving all of this as entertainment.
Another point: hired, armed thugs do not impress me. They deserve to be locked up for a long time! Their presence and their actions were indeed
illegal, given that the ownership of the property itself is in contention, without a final court resolution.
One more thing that makes no sense: Playa Buenaventura is located deep within the Bahia Concepcion. It is a closed ended bay. If drug boats were
coming and going as Munoz claims, don't you think there would be plenty of surveillance? The Navy has a base at the airstrip at the mouth of the
Mulege River. That is also within clear view of the mouth of the Bahia Concepcion, which they patrol. If drug boats were running in and out of there,
there is no way they could escape.
So, in closing, I reiterate: I cannot know the truth. All I can do is make character judgments based on my acquaintance with Marc and Olivia. They
appear to be nice people and I like them.
The rest of my opinion is based on my logic and conjecture, and that is subjective. You may certainly disagree.
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Alan
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I do find it funny that Munoz seems to be very proud of the nickname "Mano Negro". Isn't that Mexican slang for a cheater?
In Memory of E-57
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Woooosh
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
I do find it funny that Munoz seems to be very proud of the nickname "Mano Negro". Isn't that Mexican slang for a cheater? |
He wears a black glove due to a hand injury. He could change the color though and mess with everybody. Thought maybe you didn't know.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Public records
Brings up an interesting point, to what degree in Mexico is "their" Freedom of Information Act" in place to aid in redress in a situation like this,
as they® do have one ...
Resources on Mexican Constitutional Reform on Access to Information
"On July 20, 2007 the constitutional reform bill was made into a law, giving Federal and state agencies one year after that date to comply with the
modifications laid out in the reform’s statutes. Furthermore, the third article of the law obliges municipalities with more than 70,000 inhabitants to
make their procedures available electronically, creating an immediate need for technical expertise in access to information."
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/mexico/article6.htm
Aaahhh ... all of this would in most likelihood fallen under "Public information" and could be recovered under current law in Mexico .. and then
Published online if one wished to .. as it is "public" ... an ongoing investigation by Agency may be excluded, have read the whole thing ... just
wondered if Mexico had a FIA ... kinda like we "used" to have ... we now have a few more exclusions to the FIA in the United States, at this time ...
And for what it's worth ... would appear to be an excellent area for job and/or business opportunity .. 
[Edited on 3-14-2012 by wessongroup]
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Mula
Super Nomad
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Location: San Nicolas y Lopez Mateos
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Thugs are in jail. . . .
Policiaca
Confirma la Procuraduría orden de aprehensión contra María Elizabeth y Mario Alán
El Sudcaliforniano
14 de marzo de 2012
La Paz, Baja California Sur.- La Procuraduría General de Justicia del Estado confirma la aprehensión de María Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño y Mario Alán
Pérez Rivera, presuntos responsables por el delito de despojo agravado.
Informó que elementos de la Policía Ministerial del Estado destacamentados en Santa Rosalía, Baja California Sur, ejecutaron orden de aprehensión
girada por el Juez Mixto de Primera Instancia del Partido Judicial Mulegé con sede en Santa Rosalía, B.C.S., en contra de las citadas personas,quienes
cumplieron medida cautelar de arraigo por 30 días dentro del proceso penal de fecha 11 de marzo del 2012, quedando internos en el Centro de
Reinserción Social de Santa Rosalía, B.C.S. a disposición del Juez de la Causa que los reclama.
Hechos ocurridos el domingo 05 de febrero del 2012 en la playa Buena Aventura, teniendo la intervención del Agente del Ministerio Público mediante la
denuncia interpuesta por María Olivia Higuera Aguilar, quien denunció la comisión de los delitos de Despojo Agravado cometidos en su contra, por parte
de Mario Alán Pérez y María Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño.
La denunciante María Olivia Higuera Aguilar, presentó ante el Agente del Ministerio Público copia certificada de la restitución de tres inmuebles que
se encuentran en la playa denominada Buena Ventura en el municipio de Mulegé, Baja California Sur, realizada por el Tribunal Agrario en noviembre del
año próximo pasado y de la cual gozaba de posesión al momento de la comisión del delito.
Por lo anterior, el representante social procedió a declarar a los probables responsables, recabando testimoniales así como periciales que se
integraron a la Averiguación Previa.
Misma que fue consignada ante el Juez Mixto de Primera Instancia de Santa Rosalía, B.C.S. quien libró la correspondiente orden de aprehensión en
contra lo los probables responsables antes mencionados.
Policiaca
Confirma la Procuraduría orden de aprehensión contra María Elizabeth y Mario Alán
El Sudcaliforniano
14 de marzo de 2012
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64848
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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BING TRANSLATOR
Police
The Attorney confirms arrest warrant against Mario Alan and Mary Elizabeth
The Sudcaliforniano
14 March 2012
La Paz, Baja California Sur-La Attorney General of Justice of the State confirms the arrest of Maria Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño and Mario Alan Pérez
Rivera, suspects for the crime of aggravated deprivation.
It was reported that the State Ministerial police elements destacamentados in Santa Rosalía, Baja California Sur, executed warrant rotated by the
Joint Court of first instance of the Mulegé Judicial party headquartered in Santa Rosalía, B.C.S., against these persons, who met as prudential roots
for 30 days within the criminal process of date 11 March 2012leaving inmates in the Centre of Social reinsertion of Santa Rosalía, B.C.S. at the
disposal of the judge of the cause that demands.
Events on Sunday, February 05, 2012 in the good adventure Beach, with the intervention of the agent of the public prosecutor by the complaint filed by
Maria Olivia Higuera Aguilar, who denounced the Commission of dispossession aggravated offences against him, by Mario Alan Perez and Maria Elizabeth
Espinoza Montaño.
The complainant Maria Olivia Higuera Aguilar, presented before the public prosecutor agent certified copy of the restitution of three buildings
located on the beach called good Ventura in the municipality of Mulegé, Baja California Sur, by the Agrarian Court in November of next year and which
enjoyed possession at the time of the Commission of the offence.
Therefore, the social representative proceeded to declare those likely responsible, seek testimonials as well as expert joined to the previous
investigation.
Same that was recorded before the mixed Court of first instance of Santa Rosalía, B.C.S. who fought the corresponding warrant against the probable
perpetrators mentioned above.
Police
The Attorney confirms arrest warrant against Mario Alan and Mary Elizabeth
The Sudcaliforniano
14 March 2012
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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re: the above: They were transferred to that jail for arraignment where they will either be set free or sentenced.
On the Ejido topic:
A huge Ejido in eastern Tijuana is evicting 30,000 families. They voided all the land titles the people held and are throwing them off. I do hope
Mexico come to terms with all this soon. To me throwing 30,000 families off their land is far different than expats and rich Mexican lawyers fighting
over places for development like PB.
http://www.el-mexicano.com.mx/informacion/noticias/1/3/estat...
TIJUANA - More than 30,000 families, mainly lower class, who purchased lands from private individuals and the state government via INDIVI and INETT,
will be affected with the resolution and final judgement issued by the Superior Agrarian Court in favor of Ejido Javier Rojo Gómez, awarding them
almost 404 hectares (1,000 acres).
These lands were occupied and sold by private individuals and the state government, which delivered property titles. Now all that has been rendered
void, and those occupying the land will have to leave, if not they can be evicted by the police.
This was reported yesterday in this journal by señores Leonardo Salazar and Francisco Ledezma, president and treasurer of the Ejido.
"With this ruling, we have finally put an end to this agrarian trail 13/98, which ended last August 23, 2011. It lasted through 18 long years of
litigation and which overcame several amparos (habeus corpus) put up by the opposing party, " they said.
[Edited on 3-14-2012 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18377
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
re: the above: They were transferred to that jail for arraignment where they will either be set free or sentenced.
On the Ejido topic:
A huge Ejido in eastern Tijuana is evicting 30,000 families. They voided all the land titles the people held and are throwing them off. I do hope
Mexico come to terms with all this soon. To me throwing 30,000 families off their land is far different than expats and rich Mexican lawyers fighting
over places for development like PB.
http://www.el-mexicano.com.mx/informacion/noticias/1/3/estat...
TIJUANA - More than 30,000 families, mainly lower class, who purchased lands from private individuals and the state government via INDIVI and INETT,
will be affected with the resolution and final judgement issued by the Superior Agrarian Court in favor of Ejido Javier Rojo Gómez, awarding them
almost 404 hectares (1,000 acres).
These lands were occupied and sold by private individuals and the state government, which delivered property titles. Now all that has been rendered
void, and those occupying the land will have to leave, if not they can be evicted by the police.
This was reported yesterday in this journal by señores Leonardo Salazar and Francisco Ledezma, president and treasurer of the Ejido.
"With this ruling, we have finally put an end to this agrarian trail 13/98, which ended last August 23, 2011. It lasted through 18 long years of
litigation and which overcame several amparos (habeus corpus) put up by the opposing party, " they said.
[Edited on 3-14-2012 by Woooosh] |
30k families is like over 100k people,.. the eviction will never happen,... such mass eviction would lead to riots,...
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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"These lands were occupied and sold by private individuals and the state government, which delivered property titles. Now all that has been rendered
void, and those occupying the land will have to leave, if not they can be evicted by the police."
The disposition of the ruling is another issue .... IMHO
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
"These lands were occupied and sold by private individuals and the state government, which delivered property titles. Now all that has been rendered
void, and those occupying the land will have to leave, if not they can be evicted by the police."
The disposition of the ruling is another issue .... IMHO |
def true. and it def wouldn't happening in an election year anyway.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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Yesterday afternoon, the Santa Rosalia criminal court, dropped the aggravated robbery charges as groundless against Matrio Alan Perez and Maria
Elizabeth Espinoz Montano.
He found completely out of order the charges and detention order, denying the formal prision order, they are completely free of those charges.
 
The judge found that the only basis used by the Estate District attorney to put those charges on them, was that Olivia Higuera Aguilar, told the Sub
District Attorney that she, during the night and using binoculars, saw some people entering the houses she claim are hers and she supposed, that they
were robbing; she did not show any proof that anything was stolen, she did not even said that anything specific was stolen, only that she thought that
they may have been stealing something from her property; of course during the night and with binoculars at 300 mts. She did not recognize anybody, but
she said that Alan and Betty were the ones that were the most likely to have been doing it.
The judge felt offended by the Estate District attorney order for the arrest with those legal basis and just immediately dropped the charges and
declared them free of those charges.
The other charge filled by the Estate District attorney was for ‘Despojo’ or illegal property occupation; he was able to do that, because the Mulege
District Attorney, denied our attorney the right to offer legal proof, that my property is a legal property and they were using my property, not any
other property, since they were detained inside my hotel, something that not even the Estate District Attorney argue.
They acted on the affirmation  by Olivia Higuera Aguilar that she was the
Hotel Buenaventura owner, that the Agrarian court had ordered my
possession taken away from me, but she did not offer any legal proof of her words and the Estate District Attorney acted on the belief that she was
telling the true facts; then Olivia provided 3 Agrarian Court orders against
3 Americans, not against me and not against my hotel or my hotel's property.
We are just providing the Criminal judge, with the legal proof concerning my legal property and in a couple of days, as soon as the public notary
provides certified copies, they will be free of any charge and free to go.
He just cannot believe that the Estate District attorney retained them in jail for 30 days and then filled charges with those legal proofs or the lack
of absolutely no credible legal proof.
On the weapons use, no charges were filled because the weapons are legal and had legal permitts.
This vindicate my affirmation that the Estate District attorney just helped Olivia Higuera Aguilar to try to appropriate my hotel without any legal
cause; he did it by putting in jail all my employees and letting Olivia enter the hotel to freely steal everything she liked and even tell herself the
proprietor based on a Agrarian Court order, something completely false.
What we just witnessed was an attempt by the Estate District Attorney to steal a private property in favor of a known criminal.
Today a Federal Police went to my hotel and found Olivia Higuera Aguilar at my hotel, telling that she was the owner based on an Agrarian Court order
against me, but when the police asked for the order, she showed only the Agrarian Court order against 3 other people and also not mentioning my hotel
and when he confronted her with those facts, she just went out of the hotel telling him that she will bring the Estate District attorney to confiscate
the hotel again; some of my employees are tonight inside my hotel again.
Ok, this will completely clear my people and allow them to go free, my employees are tonight in my hotel again and Olivia is out forever, at least
legally and as long as her Estate District attorney’s friends commit again another felony.
Now, on my side, I will continue pressing the Estate District attorney to execute the 10 criminal charges against Maria Olvia Higuera Aguilar LA
VAQUERA for Robbery, assault, injuries with intent to kill, property damage, falsehood to judicial authority; criminal investigations that the Estate
District attorney has been holding without sending them to the criminal judge in a complete cinical abuse of power to help LA VAQUERA.
I will press continue to offer proof against the Baja Governor, Estate District Attorney and other criminal associates on the Federal Police bureau
specialized on crimes committed by public servants in Mexico city, for kidnapping, vehicle robbery, property damages.
I I will fill charges and continue to offer proof against the Baja Governor, Estate District Attorney and other criminal associates on Federal court
for defamation, economical damages.
I will not falter until every one of them pay for their crimes; they tried, they failed and now is time to pay.
[Edited on 3-15-2012 by ramuma53]
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
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Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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Wooosh
Rojo Gomez people's land was claimed by the Ejido favored by the Baja Estate Government, but I know they have a National title already paid, but they
for some very unclear reason have never used that fact, a fact that is decisive, because a National Title cannot by law be affected by an ejido.
There has been several dead people concerning that issue, one of them the neighbors representative’s family, because the Estate government put him in
jail and they died in a very suspicious fire while he was in jail, then the Police chief who caught the him and put him in jail was killed, he was
dragged behind a car tied from the neck along all the Rojo Gomez streets. A bad way to pay for a bad crime.
Do not worry today, because the Superior Agrarian Judge ruling is not final, now comes the Amparo and if they use the National Land title proof, they
will keep their land.
To try to take their land away, the Estate Government has used the Federal Government to hold their title from being issued, but since they already
paid for the title, legally the land is already theirs, what is needed now is only the formality if the title, but the time the ownership is
transferred is at the time when they paid and the Federal government received their money. The land is legally theirs and it is not legally possible
for an Ejido to confiscate a National title land.
This just another case of the Baja Estate government trying to confiscate land to create more industrial parks and the reason is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ big
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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So the 30,000 families will be OK because their titles were drawn against a National Land Title from the SRA? The ejido was never valid because it
was already transferred out of the National Lands by paid transfer? That took 20 years to figure out and they still got it wrong?
BTW: Glad you prevailed in PB. Are you still planning on blocking access to the Restaurant?
Turn your sights toward Rosarito- someone is leasing your previously empty condo building- Playa Bonita. Maybe have your lawyer call and see who the
"owner" is on the lease? (building CFE Bill says Grupo Aries, real estate broker is Gustavo Torres.) The Torres' didn't do so well against you the
last time.
[Edited on 3-15-2012 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Was willing to deal with the 156 square feet .. but, the deal breaker was no DOGS !!
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Was willing to deal with the 156 square feet .. but, the deal breaker was no DOGS !! |
Rent is triple local market. must be 156m2 huh? Two units per floor.
100% in either the "Marine" or "Federal Zone" with an official and published measurment in the works.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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His thugs got out of jail. Back on the street. You could consider that a win.
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
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Location: Southern California
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HERE THEY COME AGAIN
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Woooosh
Banned
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Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
His thugs got out of jail. Back on the street. You could consider that a win. |
Not until they legally block all the access to the restaurant.
Before all the M&O supporters get their panties bunched up, a NEW player has entered the picture and she is claiming it ALL for herself now:
"She asks for the efforts of the attorney general to help her recover her property.
Elizabeth Aragón, owner of more than 770 hectares (2,000 acres) of beach front land said that Rafael Muñoz Martínez had invaded her land.
Looking for follow-up on the complaint 037/2008, for the crime of invasion of property and unlawful possession that was made years ago before the
state attorney in Mulege, yesterday Elizabeth Aragón went before the head of the State Attorney General's office with the purpose of expediting the
case so she can recover those parts of her property occupied by an individual named Rafael Muñoz Martínez, known as "El Mano Negro."
Interviewed after her discussion with the attorney general, Elizabeth Aragón said she has been the owner of more that 770 hectares, which includes
beachfront land, such as playas Tinajas de Armenta, Armenta, Requesón, Almejas and Perla, but also Buenaventura, where recently there has been a
problem with the presence of armed men, including shots fired against another person, the same people she accuses of illegally occupying her land.
She said that in light of these events and because there exists a complaint, she decided to look for help from the Attorney General and the state
governor. Her goal is that through the public prosecutor of Mulege, she can expedite the process of freeing her property that was cordoned off with
yellow tape for ministerial measures, but which belongs to her, according to property title documents that were awarded to her by the President of the
Republic through Agrarian Reform.
She added that she has planned a holistic center on the property, and that investors have come to see the property, but could not enter due to the
conflict, so they left, a situation which is needlessly damaging her.
Finally, she said that as she is the sole owner of the lands, she needs the support of the authorities to establish responsibilities and to allow her
the use of her properties which have been invaded. "As the owner, the only thing I want is peace so I can work, " she said."
[Edited on 3-15-2012 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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