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shari
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unfortunately it was all they had to offer...hmmm...Mike said Don Kay ate alot of alfalfa in San Ignacio but didnt fatten up any...can burros get
worms???
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somomule
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Yes all equines can get a whole series of different worms. Regular worming every three months by varying the wormer used depending on the specific
time of year is best.
Alfalfa is not a natural feed for Horses,Burros Mules or Equines in General. Alfalfa has too rich a protein level for most equines. When fed properly
it can be ok however grass of varied species is their native feed. Too much Alfalfa can colic an equine and make their feet go bad/founder.
With the way Don Kay is working I cannot emphasize enough that proper feeding and proper watering is paramount to his health.
Ken
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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hmmm....maybe someone in san juanico can get some worm medecine for Don Kay...he looked nice and strong in Asuncion and now his hind quarters look
kinda skinny with the bones kind of protruding. I know Mike cares more about Don Kay than anything else and will do what needs to be done to have him
healthy...any suggestions what things don kay needs to eat? Mike does read this thread when he has internet connection but doesnt usually have time to
comment much...so maybe some suggestions might be helpful...should he limit water intake when he arrives somewhere with a water source? only feed him
a small amount of alfalfa? etc etc
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oladulce
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It looks like they are 3-4 days away from here now. We had planned to get a couple of flakes of the stuff our friend feeds his horses and I'm not sure
what it is. Probably alfalfa.
Should we not give Don Kay any alfalfa? Unfortunately we don't have access to many other choices but I don't want to cause him any
harm.
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somomule
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Let it be known I am not a Veternarian nor do I profess to have absolute knowledge. What I can say is I have owned many equines including the long
eared variety and have experienced founder and colic amongst other problems with equines. I am also a trained farrier so with some authority I can
comment on hooves.
A common mistake folks make is feeding to much too quick when an animal has not had a chance to cool down properly. Same goes for water. They should
be cooled down and given limited amounts of feed at first so they do not colic or founder.
When people ride or hike with their equines and they get to stopping place it is best to tie them up, brush them down from the sweat and let them cool
off. Then you can give them some water but limit it for awhile so they can adjust. Of course it is better if they can have frequent small drinks on
the trip just like we need.
Corn is just plain wrong. Use it to fatten up cattle on their way to be a beef but not as an equine feed. Equine feeds such as sweet feed look like
granola and have the right mix for equines. Fed in PROPER amounts at the PROPER time is best. Sweet feeds that have about 12% protein work well. If
sweet feed is not available oats work okay but again the right amount at the right time.
A Donkey the size of Don Kay would normally eat no more than 10 pound of hay total a day, supplemented with 1-2 pound of sweet feed as long as he way
working hard like the long hikes he has been on.
Grass hay is best. I do not like Alfalfa, it is way too rich and too hot a feed. When given to an equine that is already hot the feed goes right to
their feet. The feet are the lifeline of equines.
Let me try and give a better example. In the spring the grass is very green, very rich and very high in protein. Alfalfa has an elevated protein
level similar to grass at it's peak during the season no matter when it's fed. One should not let equines free graze on rich green grass during the
peak season nor is it a good idea to improper quanities of Alfalfa when a equine is already hot.
Watering an equine that is hot without letting them cool down is also a bad idea. Small hydrating amount may be okay but drinking until they seem
done when they are real hot is not a good idea.
Hydrate often and small amount is best. Think of those camelbaks folks wear. They are the best for people because they drink small amount often and
stay hydrated.
Ken
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somomule
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If alfalfa is the only choice and I do understand it is in many areas you can feed it but it is way richer than grass and higher in protein as
mentioned above and should be fed slowly and not too much. It is harder for an equine to digest than grass.
If Don Kay is losing too much weight too quick that is not good either. It may be best to consider shorter hikes with a better watering and feeding
routine.
Personally I think 10 miles a day is more than enough to put an equine through when water and feed may not be available until the end of the day.
Ken
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oladulce
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Thank you Ken.
Let Don Kay cool down.
Small amounts of water at a time.
No gorging on alfalfa when he's hot.
No corn.
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Diver
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1. Corn alone has too much starch and will cause colic. It can be added to a forage or hay diet in small quantites such as 3-4 dry ears at a time.
2. Sufficient water is needed but not huge amounts at once. Yes, he should limit Don Kay's water intake when he first arrives at a water source. Give
him a gallon each half hour at most when he has been running dry. He should also limit the amount of hay/alfalfa during this time (a few hours) but he
should eat something, until Don Kay is sated and then give him what he'll eat. It's also good to walk him around a bit between feedings for this first
few hours if he's really been low on food or water before arriving.
3. He needs quantites of forage - hay is better as there is more forage compared to the calorie content. Alfalfa is good as it has more protien than
most hay but it should be supplemented with at least 50% hay or grazed forage unless he is trying to add weight fast. If he's not used to lot's of
alfalfa, it can cause colic as well.
4. He should be feeding fairly regular quantities or forage or hay, alfalfa and grain or corn (1-2 cups of oats are good too) twice a day with water
each few hours depending on the temperature, load and terrain. He can also feed smaller amounts at daytime stops and later at night with all the
traveling he's doing. His diet should not be changed too much. Such as do not feed all alfalfa with no grazing if that's what he's used to. Also not
too much fruit or veggies or "junk food" at a time.
5. If he was in a paddock with horses, he could have picked up worms. Ivermectin or other worming med and a day's rest should do the trick. Plus any
time needed to get him back up to weight if he's lost some. Careful to check the amount of worm medicine as most doses are made for 700-1,000 lb
horses.
6. Keep an eye on his "stool". If the texture or smell changes a lot, it means something. If his diet and health is consistent, so should be his
stools. Each animal's digestive tollerance is different; Mike should be getting a good "feel" for Don Kay by now and will probably do fine assuming he
can get the supplies he needs on a regular basis.
We don't have burrows but we've had horses for years.
Take care of them and they'll take care of you.
Edit to add; Ken posted while I was typing.
His info is all good.
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by Diver]
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somomule
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I think I essentially said what Diver said but Diver said it more with more specifics and I concur with most if it. However, I do not like corn as a
feed for an equine. everyone has an opinion. We have equines including a Mule and Donkey and raise cattle. Not changing my mind on the feeding of
straight corn.
As far as wormers go I think it is allot of hooey regarding the dosage. I give the whole tube and have for years for any equine over 600 pounds and
have never had a problem. Ivermectin is okay but not for every worming cycle. They will build up a tolerance and Ivermectin every time worming is due
is not a good idea. A rotation of wormers is best.
Ken
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David K
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Great advice...
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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excellent info...thanks everyone and I'm sure MIke will get a chance to read it next week. By the distances covered the last couple days, looks like
DonKay recovered and didnt get more colic..whew...ola dulce...maybe stock up on some oats and there is a great feed here called cantador that has all
that stuff and sweet stuff in it too found at feed stores if anyone plans to meet up with Mike soon...some of that would be great.
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somomule
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
excellent info...thanks everyone and I'm sure MIke will get a chance to read it next week. By the distances covered the last couple days, looks like
DonKay recovered and didnt get more colic..whew...ola dulce...maybe stock up on some oats and there is a great feed here called cantador that has all
that stuff and sweet stuff in it too found at feed stores if anyone plans to meet up with Mike soon...some of that would be great.
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A Pound no more than twice a day would be enough in my opinion. I use a 1 lb coffee can to measure. The morning before a trip I would give the Don a
pound of 12% sweet feed or Oats. That will boost his energy level and he be fired up to go. After he gets to a destination, let him cool down, brush
him, water him slowly and with some brevity. Once he has cooled down you can feed him another pound or when the sun goes down to warm him up but again
no more than a pound. Also feed him a good quality Grass Hay 5-7 pounds each feeding. If you must feed alfalfa I would limit it to no more than 4-5
pounds each feeding. If possible feed a couple of pounds of alfalfa wait a couple of hours and feed the rest of the portion.
I would also get a tube of wormer, just make sure it is horse wormer. Do not use Pour on Wormers that folks use on cattle. Also no ear tags that have
pesticide on them even as a necklace.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Ken
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Santiago
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I thought hay was hay; now I find that there are different kinds of hay and it's important to feed them the right kind in the right amounts at the
right time of day. How the heck are the wild burros getting along on just the thorny stuff? It must be because they are not 'working'?
I am astounded at the effort that must go into the care and feeding of a pack animal. Not too dissimilar from getting married......
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by Santiago]
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somomule
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Here is a list of some wormers and the time of year to use them for best results.
Of course if you can only get one kind it is better to worm than not worm at all. Then get him on a rotation so he doesn't build up a tolerance to
just one wormer.
Jan/Feb-1 tube Pyrantel Pamoate
Mar/Apr-1 tube Oxibendazole or Fenbendazole
May/June-1 tube 1.87% Ivermectin
July/Aug-1 tube Pyrantel Pamoate
Sept/Oct-1 tube Oxibendazole or Fenbendazole
Nov/Dec-1 tube Praziquantel Combination
Ken
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by somomule]
Ken
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somomule
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I thought hay was hay; now I find that there are different kinds of hay and it's important to feed them the right kind in the right amounts at the
right time of day. How the heck are the wild burros getting along on just the thorny stuff? It must be because they are not 'working'?
I am astounded at the effort that must go into the care and feeding of a pack animal. Not too dissimilar from getting married......
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by Santiago] |
Yes not all hay is created equal. There are many species of grass and clovers as well. We put up 46,800.00 pounds a year out of our hay field or 23
tons. In our part of the country our hay field boasts Fescue, Orchard and Timothy Grass with a mixture of red & yellow clover. Other parts of the
country may have Brome and other grasses. I worked for the U.S. Dept of Interior for over 2o years and we had specialist's who's main job was to
manage grass for public grazing and prevent over grazing, a full time job to say the least.
Wild Horses and Burros operate differently. They eat to survive and have developed tolerances to many feeds to survive based on their geographical
location. A big problem is people try to equate what a wild Horse or Burro can do with what they think their domesticated equine should be able to do.
For example people will say equine's don't need shoes because wild ones don't wear them. Not true, wild ones are moving most of the day going from
feeding area to feeding area and will naturally trim their own feed on the hard surfaces and rocks. A domesticated equine usually lives in a cushy
environment maybe in a paddock with wood shavings or a sandy corral. They don't have the same opportunity to keep there hooves trimed.
If we went to a country where people went barefoot most of the time they would run circles around us with our baby soft feet.
Anyway thoughts to ponder.
Ken
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oladulce
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Ken,
please check your u2u. (the message link in the box on the top right of the page)
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somomule
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
Ken,
please check your u2u. (the message link in the box on the top right of the page) |
I just replied!
Ken
Ken
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TMW
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I for one appreciate all the info presented. I've learned something, thanks.
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Diver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by somomule
Here is a list of some wormers and the time of year to use them for best results.
Of course if you can only get one kind it is better to worm than not worm at all. Then get him on a rotation so he doesn't build up a tolerance to
just one wormer.
Jan/Feb-1 tube Pyrantel Pamoate
Mar/Apr-1 tube Oxibendazole or Fenbendazole
May/June-1 tube 1.87% Ivermectin
July/Aug-1 tube Pyrantel Pamoate
Sept/Oct-1 tube Oxibendazole or Fenbendazole
Nov/Dec-1 tube Praziquantel Combination
Ken
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by somomule] |
Now THAT'S a list !
We normally only use 2 different wormers but I'll check out your info.
Thank you !
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somomule
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
| Quote: | Originally posted by somomule
Here is a list of some wormers and the time of year to use them for best results.
Of course if you can only get one kind it is better to worm than not worm at all. Then get him on a rotation so he doesn't build up a tolerance to
just one wormer.
Jan/Feb-1 tube Pyrantel Pamoate
Mar/Apr-1 tube Oxibendazole or Fenbendazole
May/June-1 tube 1.87% Ivermectin
July/Aug-1 tube Pyrantel Pamoate
Sept/Oct-1 tube Oxibendazole or Fenbendazole
Nov/Dec-1 tube Praziquantel Combination
Ken
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by somomule] |
Now THAT'S a list !
We normally only use 2 different wormers but I'll check out your info.
Thank you ! |
I hope it helps. We noticed that our equines getting worms despite using Invectrin/Zimectrin every 3 months. Our local vet suggested the rotation and
it has helped to avoid them getting a tolerence to one brand. I can't claim credit for the list, believe me I am not that smart. It is published on
sites like Valley Vet.
I buy a complete year rotation from them per animal and stick them in the fridge. They keep fine for the year until you need the next one.
Ken
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Outfitter & Equine Supply
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