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Skeet/Loreto
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Tehag:
1/2 of the Flying Sportsman is now the Villas. A group of People from Fresno Calif. got the other Half which contains a Nice House behind a Large
Fence.
Skeet
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Juan del Rio
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Today's Wall Street Journal Article
A little attention on Loreto Bay in today's Wall Street Journal article Pretty interesting slant from a nationwide viewpoint.
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djh
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Available only to subscribers.... Would you mind a cut and paste job, doctor?
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Juan del Rio
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Wall Street Journal Article posted
Builders Bet on Mexico
Will U.S. Baby Boomers
Cross the Border to Retire?
By KEMBA J. DUNHAM
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
January 18, 2006; Page B1
Loreto Bay Co. is a real-estate developer based in Scottsdale, Ariz., a magnet for retirees from all over the U.S. So you might expect the company to
be working on a project nearby. Instead, this small firm has its sights trained further south, about 700 miles from the U.S. border, in Baja
California.
Teaming up with FONATUR, Mexico's tourism development agency, Loreto Bay is developing a seaside town, with plans for 6,000 units ranging from
$280,000 condos to $1 million custom-built beach houses. The company has taken orders for 554 homes and has 200 under construction. Most of the
buyers, says James Grogan, president and chief executive, are Americans and Canadians.
The Villages of Loreto Bay, in the Mexican baja, feature shady streets with native plants. It's one of several communities being built in Mexico where
developers hope to lure well-heeled retirees.
As home sales start to slow in the U.S., some builders are casting a hopeful eye on Mexico, placing bets that a growing population of North American
retirees will want to buy mid- and high-end homes there, much as they have in places like Florida and the Southwest.
There are plenty of hurdles and risks. At least two major American home builders spent time in the Mexican market, then pulled out.
Still, the idea is appealing, especially to smaller developers, which are getting active encouragement from the National Association of Home Builders,
the largest trade group in the U.S., with a membership of mostly small companies. At its International Builders' Show last week in Orlando, the NAHB
ran an event explaining to members how to acquire land in Mexico, find partners there and finance such ventures. At an "Access Mexico" reception, U.S.
home builders were invited to mingle with their Mexican peers.
"Mexico is a growing opportunity for resort and retirement communities," says Rita Feinberg, who heads NAHB's international efforts. The NAHB also
sees Mexico as a place for small companies to escape increasingly aggressive competition with the U.S.'s biggest builders. Currently, the nation's 10
biggest home builders have 21% of the market for all new homes built in the U.S. and NAHB economists think that share will grow to between 35% and 40%
in the next decade through growth and acquisitions. "It might be easier and more efficient for our smaller builders to go to Mexico," says Jerry
Howard, NAHB chief executive.
Demographic and political trends seem favorable. According to a study conducted by Cemex SA, a Mexican cement giant, and Active Living International,
which builds retirement and active-adult communities, about one million Americans currently live in Mexico, including 157,000 so-called active-adults
-- buyers age 55 and over. That segment is expected to grow, according to the study. And it found that Americans of Mexican and Latin American descent
are interested in retiring to Mexico. Retirees are attracted by the weather, the proximity to the U.S., an affordable cost of a living, and access to
good quality health care.
Changes made under Nafta, the North American Free Trade Agreement, have also helped. For example, there are new financial instruments that can benefit
home builders, says Jeffrey Schott, a senior fellow at the Institute for International Economics, a nonpartisan, nonprofit think tank in Washington.
"A decade ago, this would have been a much riskier venture because you wouldn't have had the mortgage market, you would have had an uncertain policy
regime. ... There are still problems, but a lot has improved.''
Still, those problems can be daunting. For example, there is a law that forbids non-Mexicans from owning land in close proximity to the borders or the
beach front. Interpreting those laws can be tricky. In the Baja peninsula a few years ago, scores of U.S. retirees learned that deeds on their
beachfront property didn't meet those certain provisions of a national-security statute that, technically, permits only citizens to own land on
Mexico's two coasts. A few were able to buy back their homes from legally recognized landowners, while others filed a claim against the Mexican
government. But the wide majority of these retirees haven't had any resolution.
The country does allow foreign individuals to acquire property by working through a trust, known as a Fideicomiso. With this arrangement, these
foreigners can obtain the beneficiary rights of ownership to property in Mexico, but the title is held by a trustee, which must be a Mexican bank. The
trust operates the same way as a family trust in the U.S., but it exists for a maximum of 50 years and it must be renewed, says Jorge A. Vargas, an
expert in Mexican law at the University of San Diego School of Law.
He adds that corporations don't need to work through a Fideicomiso, but can buy property outright provided that they use it for commercial purposes.
Still, the extensive red tape and legal complexities prompt many American builders interested in Mexico to seek local partners. The extensive red tape
and legal complexities prompt many American builders interested in Mexico to seek local partners. "I'm not saying partnering with a Mexican firm is
the only way an American builder can do it, but it just makes it much easier," says Jesus Alan Elizondo Flores, an official at Sociedad Hipotecaria
Federal, a federal home-mortgage institution in Mexico. "There's a huge learning curve."
Active Living, based in Corona del Mar, Calif., is developing its first Mexican venture, in the Nuevo Vallarta resort area, with several partners,
including one in Mexico. The development, one of five planned by Active Living, will have 250 units, with one to three bedrooms, priced at an average
of about $388,000. It is expected to be completed in late 2007 and will be marketed throughout the U.S. and Canada.
U.S. developers hope retirees will buy $1 million custom homes in Mexico's Loreto Bay, where rooms with a view face the water.
Some developers are hedging their bets in other ways. Bryson Garbett, president of Garbett Homes Inc., based in Salt Lake City, currently has a letter
of intent on a piece of land in Queretaro, the state north of Mexico City, where he hopes to build 200 to 400 homes for middle-class Mexicans within
the next year. And he's looking for other tracts of land in the coastal areas, but he's considering building second homes -- not primary homes -- for
retirees.
Still, some analysts wonder why Mexico is a draw at all. "The higher returns on capital are here in the U.S.," says Alex Barron, an analyst at JMP
Securities in San Francisco. Mexico, "as exciting as it might seem right now, has been historically risky."
Robert Curran, a home building analyst at Fitch Ratings in New York, points to the two big builders, KB Home and Pulte Homes Inc., that didn't find
business in Mexico profitable enough. KB was there briefly in the early 1990s; Pulte pulled out of the market in December, after almost 10 years. "If
Pulte couldn't do it, why would they [smaller builders] have success?" Mr. Curran asks.
But some prospective retirees have more encouraging words. Shari Cooper, a 45-year-old realtor from Dallas, and her husband, Juan Rivera, a
45-year-old Los Angeles-based photojournalist, bought a two-bedroom "casita'' priced at about $450,000 in Loreto Bay just a few months ago. They had
gone to visit after hearing about the development from friends who bought a unit last year.
"We just fell in love with it,'' says Ms. Cooper. "We were looking for a place that was away from the rat race and it just makes you feel renewed
because of its beauty. It's a very spiritual and the kind of place you'd want to retire to.'' The couple hopes to retire there in the next five years,
but until then, they plan to make frequent visits.
Write to Kemba J. Dunham at kemba.dunham@wsj.com
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Sharksbaja
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Forgive the Canadians
All this time I thought the Canadians were to blame.
Arizona did it!
What a piece of poorly researched press.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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djh
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JdR,
Thanks for posting the article itself so those of us who don't subscribe to the WSJ can read it.
Yup... a bit stary eyed and superficial and, as mentioned, lacking in research (aka investigative reporting), but it is nice to know what the media is
putting out there...
djh.
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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flyfishinPam
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Thanks for posting that Juan
When I dig out of this mountain of trabajo I'll scan those circa 1991 aerial shots of Loreto and post them.
The article was not poorly researched it is on the money. Have a look at the Loreto Bay site and you'll see most of the ops are in Scottsdale Arizona
http://www.loretobay.com
I went to the Inn at Loreto Bay on friday for their new pricing and contract. (Used to be called El Camino Real) and couldn't believe how much things
have changed in Nopolo. The building reminded me some areas of Guadalajara, tastefully done Mexican colonial style.
The new gardening is looking beautiful and would ya know it many of the palm trees from Cononia Zaragoza are being bought and moved to the
development. Hope they don't start moving cardons too!
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Dave
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Pam, I just clicked on the link. This looks like a first rate project. I don't know what all the complaining is about... Jealousy, I guess.
This should to be great for your business.
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djh
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to clarify a bit...
I'm not a complainer - at least I try not to be. (If you hear me complaining, please remind me I said this, ok?  )
My comment that the article is a bit "stary-eyed and superficial" speaks to the simple fact that one article can only give so much information and
there is so much more to know...
Certainly all of the research that HAS been done regarding some of the larger issues surrounding this development, the resources, the impacts, etc.
etc., as found in the Futuros Alternativos study (found at: http://www.futurosalternativosloreto.org/report/report_water... ) are not addressed.
I know that was not the writer's intent in the article....
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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flyfishinPam
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djh
Please refer to figure 11 in your link and tell me if they've gotten things a bit mixed up!!!
I read futuros alternativos and the question I have is "now what?" they don't seem to offer any solutions to this problem and I'm not convinced that
everything inked out is completely true. One reason biology turned me off is that it relied too heavily on statistics, I'm sure you know that any
position can be made to sound convincing through statistics. If these reports are wholly true then growth here will clearly be limited to a certain
number.
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Sharksbaja
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But....
| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
The article was not poorly researched it is on the money. Have a look at the Loreto Bay site and you'll see most of the ops are in Scottsdale Arizona
http://www.loretobay.com
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Pam, you must surely know the Canadians are financing this development. No?
I see from your posts going back nearly 2 years that you have supported the project all along. That's cool, I am sure you will benefit.
My beef has always been focused on collateral damage in the way of:
1) exponential growth factor
2) resources and infrastructure compromised
3) benefit(s) to local average citizens
IMHO the feel of Loreto will remain awhile.
It is pretty obvious that the project has garnered much attention and publicity. This is not cheap. Loreto Bay has put millions in there PR machine
to sweeten the image thereby attracting prospective buyers. They have done well at this.
Just like giving the impression it is an American development.
The ramification is just more developers wanting in on the gold rush. Thats' my biggest beef.
Oh, and I think charging thousands of extra dollars a year to use the beachfront is abominable.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Skeet/Loreto
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The Article was well done even through it did not addrss both sides of the Equation!
At the onset of this Development i reacted that it was Too Big. I am still of that concern when it comes to the Question of Water,Hospitaj, Schools.
After all that has gone on since its start, it can be seen that there is too much money involved for it to be a complete Failure.
It is hoped that if the Canadians have the fortitude and the control that they will do better at disposing of their Sewage than they have at
Victoria, B.C!It would be a shame of they do not control their Sewage in Loreto.
One day Loreto will b like Cabo, CanCun, Aruba, and other Places madefor people to come and spend their money looking at the Water, with a Large
margarita in their hand,saying "Oh How Beautifull it is"'never knowing that Parto of that beauty is its People!!!
Skeet/Loreto
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capt. mike
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hey!!....anybody see the article in today's New York Times financial section on loreto bay??
as artie johnson used to say,......."verrrrrry interestink!!"
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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djh
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Can you post it, Mike?
Thx.
djh
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Sharksbaja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
The Article was well done even through it did not addrss both sides of the Equation
Skeet/Loreto |
To me it sounded just like another press release by Loreto Bay.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
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Nomads\' Sunsets
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Worldtraveller
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From what I've read, looks like the project is as much American as it is Canadian.
What's the deal with "thousands of dollars" to use the beach? Whether things end up as well as some predict or as bad as others believe, certainly
there has been much more thought given to the ultimate result than in most any other beach resort I know of.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Just like giving the impression it is an American development.
The ramification is just more developers wanting in on the gold rush. Thats' my biggest beef.
Oh, and I think charging thousands of extra dollars a year to use the beachfront is abominable. |
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wilderone
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"What's the deal with "thousands of dollars" to use the beach?"
They want $20,000 initiation fee to join the "beach club."
And yes, there has been a lot of "thought." That translates into promises, talk, "business plans which analyze opportunies" which are in conflict
with each other. Their hyperbole is riddled with half-truths, and their "promises" are vacuous (e.g., "By the end of the project we will harvest or
produce more potable water than we use.") When, exactly, is the end of the project? How are they fulfilling that promise when the immediate plan is
to suck the acquifer dry and "await population growth" before endeavoring a viable desalinization plant? And how is taking water from the acquifer
"sustainable"? And in the meantime, hundreds of other condo projects all up and down the peninsula are in the works. And, if you do a little
research, you will find numerous seaside development projects on the mainland as well. There's really nothing special about Loreto Bay except the
fact that it's spread out and spoiling much more natural geography than a highrise would (smaller footprint).
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Skeet/Loreto
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One; Very Good;
Question: Is it better to leave all the Dumped Trash out North of Loreto or is it best to put up a Condo on top of the dump.
It will take Millions to clean up North of Loreto. Who Will Pay, not the owners of the condos.
And Not everyone wants to make a smaller Footprint. If you want that kind of life move to Tambabechie.
Loreto as it was know started to change before Loreto Bay villages came alon. They started renting Personal Water Craft, Kyacks, and 4 Wheelers
Skeet/Loreto
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Worldtraveller
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Can buyers use the beach without joining the beach club? Does this include golf?
$20,000 seems quite pricey. Either it will be a super-duper beach club or no one will join.
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"What's the deal with "thousands of dollars" to use the beach?"
They want $20,000 initiation fee to join the "beach club." |
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Sharksbaja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Worldtraveller
Can buyers use the beach without joining the beach club? Does this include golf? |
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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