| Pages:
1
..
3
4
5
6
7
8 |
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
Don't suppose you could back that up?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Larry, I did some checking around myself about the cerillos and I found out that some of the big stores in Cabo and San Jose charge the kids to work
there. I heard it was 50 pesos a day (they take the money from the kids at the end of each shift) and if a kid cannot pay, he doesn't work the next
day. Kinda like old time dock workers in the U.S. |
Not that I'd be surprised but to get someone to admit to it...
Big stores? Like Costco, Walmart, Home Depot?
Jeez...sleezeballs. 
Wish the world press could get hold of this.
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
Dave ---
Good idea. Be sure to tell the world press that these kids are building their character and developing a stellar work ethic while their employer is
extorting them.
[Edited on 3-9-2007 by DENNIS]
|
|
|
jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
Member Is Offline
|
|
i dought that the stores are extorting the kid if its happening at all it is isolated by a employ but most likly drumedup by people on this fourm so
they can feel important saving the victums
jerry and judi
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
You know, I would like to hear from a Mexican national Baja Nomad regarding what they think about stores letting kids work for tips bagging
groceries... Such as, is it considered okay in their society as a way to earn some money, stay out of trouble, build character or are the youngsters
being exploited by the grocery stores?
Ferna, Antonio, Jesse... ???
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
David ---
I agree. We need the full perspective.
Jesse .... Drop that frog leg and give us some input.
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Dennis: If you are of the Mindset, log on to the Amarillo Globe News and read about "Homeless Mary".
Mary has been around an Intersection, pusching a Cart for Years. All attempts by the "Do Gooder" people have failed. She is a rough talking old gal
that is living her life as she wants!
From your Posts I am beginning to see that you are still in the BOX.
What you need to realize is that in most case there are Two Sides of the Picture.
Try to open your eyes and Mind , be creative in your Thoughts, start thinking "I am not always RIGHT!!
stop blaming, do something about it!!
Like go down to the Store and march in front with a Big Sign, Protesting the failure of the Stores to Pay the Baggers.
You really need to get out off that BOX !!!!
Skeet
|
|
|
fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
You know, I would like to hear from a Mexican national Baja Nomad regarding what they think about stores letting kids work for tips bagging
groceries... Such as, is it considered okay in their society as a way to earn some money, stay out of trouble, build character or are the youngsters
being exploited by the grocery stores?
Ferna, Antonio, Jesse... ??? |
To answer simply and honestly;
you ask #1.-"is it considered okay in their society as a way to earn some money, stay out of trouble, build character " YES
#2.-"are the youngsters being exploited by the grocery stores?"
NO
nfm
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
|
|
|
fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
It seemed to me that they were bagging groceries after school....is that NOT the case??? |
yes
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
|
|
|
Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Soooooooo.......To really stir up this issue.....Where do you draw the line??........Last year while sitting and having some beers in a bar in
downtown Cabo del San Jose we met a group of 5 big fat old rednecks from the Redding, Ca. area who were on a vacation to sample under age mexican
girls in th Cabo area which they claimed their was an abundance of. I got into a moral argument with a couple of them and their ansewer was they were
economicaly helping these young kids!!!! Good God!!!
|
|
|
MrsFDT
Junior Nomad
Posts: 86
Registered: 5-1-2006
Location: State of Confusion
Member Is Offline
|
|
I think that kids bagging groceries at a local supermarket and soliciting sex from underage girls are two differant issues.....
As an American woman and mother, living in Tijuana, Im infronted with this issue everytime I go buy groceries. And yes I do think about those kids
(and old folks) who are there bagging for only Tips. But my thoughts about it are not what you might think.
I dont feel sad or bad for them being forced to do this. In fact they are not forced at all (out of poverty or necessity). My thought on this is,
while Im walking out the door with my cart, I look over at my thirteen year old son and casually say, "Honey, why dont you do that?"
Why would I say that? Because my son would spend 12 hours a day on his Nintendo, if I let him. I dont think I am much differant from any other decent
mother out there, including those who have children bagging. I see that kid bagging for tips and think how responsable of him. How driven he will
learn to be, If he is here than he's not out there, painting up some wall. It's not an issue of exploitation, it's a tool for structure and ethic.
I am glad that I live in a place where the society is not blinded and bogged by petty rules. Rules that in some places have a citizen so strapped down
he doesnt even have the freedom to build what he likes on his own property. (HOA, but again thats another story)
I would encourage my son to bag groceries for tips only and thank the store chain for allowing me the opportunity to help train and shape my son in a
real life situation, So he can be better prepared for what lies ahead in his life.
The whole program is designed for this. By the way only the children who have the best grades are given the opportunity to enter this program. (I dont
know about the old folks thats only been over the last few years) It's considered a reward to make extra cash not exploitation.
So next time you go through the line and some little dark skinned kid puts your milk or beer in a bag, remember he worked hard for the opportunity to
get your tip. Tip him well, he may even someday learn the value of a dollar and start his own business within his country of origen, rather than
invade yours. This is a comment not directed at most people on this board. But it's my opinion none the less.
Following FDT wherever the Baja wind takes him.... That is, if its going in the same direction I am.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Thank you Ferna and Mrs. Ferna... Dennis, are you reading this?
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yeah, I read it. It's just an echo of what many of you have been saying for days.
What? Just because it's said by a Mexican means I'm wrong? You're getting pretty close to those boots again, David.
|
|
|
fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
|
|
I think you did'nt read what she wrote "As an American woman and mother, living in Tijuana". She's born and raised USofA.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Dennis, I understand your feelings about this... Sure, if someone is going to work for a store, to (most of) us the store should put them on the
payroll.
However, this is Mexico and one thing I have learned is that there is a RIGHT WAY to do something, a WRONG WAY, and a MEXICAN WAY!
The Mexican Way is neither right or wrong, it's just their way of doing it!
Before this thing eats you up, perhaps just relax and accept the Mexican Way...
|
|
|
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
I hear this all the time...
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
However, this is Mexico and one thing I have learned is that there is a RIGHT WAY to do something, a WRONG WAY, and a MEXICAN WAY!
The Mexican Way is neither right or wrong, it's just their way of doing it!
|
and it's PC bulls**t.
Mexicans, like all other people, do things the RIGHT and WRONG way.
|
|
|
Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
|
|
I agree with David K---------(I think?)
------unless we are Mexican, or have lived there for a very long time outside a Gringo enclave, how can we possible understand the "Mexican Way", and
why in the world would we presume to be able to tell them how they should do anything? (unless they ask)
For very complex reasons, trying to tell Mexican's (or anybody, for that matter) how to do something is destined to probable failure---------it is
just human nature to react this way, and it ain't going to change anytime soon.
For instance, there is NO WAY you will ever convince me that "Unions" do more good, than bad-------and many have tried------and it goes on, and on,
and on---------some things we just "believe" in, period, and are products of our own personal experiences and observations.
Barry
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Dave, I think you have a different exposure than do I with that phrase...
The Right and Wrong Way are 'American' ways at solving a problem... The Mexican Way is a way that WORKS (ie. the Right Way for a Mexican). It is just
NOT the way we gringos would do it.
I see it all the time working with Mexicans, up here.
I didn't mean it as anything PC... It is a way to respect the Mexicans in that they have their own way to do something that is different from our way.
The Mexican Way is a good thing, and teaches us gringos another way to solve a problem!
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
Fdt -----
I saw your post as well and you are the Mexican I referred to. As for your wife, how long could a person live in Tijuana without thinking like a
Mexican? Not long, I'm sure.
I agree with your assesment of "right -- wrong -- Mexican." We see that at the border every day.
"Sí señor, gringolandia has laws and we are breaking their laws but, that's OK because we're Mexicans."
I'm not trying to change the direction of this thread, [ after all, it is Bernies ] but trying to make a defensibile point.
David ----
I accept the Mexican way. I always have because that's the way it is. But, I don't have to agree with it........or you. I've never, contrary to
some here, advocated any action to illustrate my point. That would be ridiculous as well as futile and illegal.
My point remains intact.
A small, rich segment of society which has, by design, created a hungry class, then proceeds to exploit the young and old of that class by
offering them labor which may, or may not, be compensated for, is in my estimation, wrong.....to say the least.
That the kids and older folks do the work is admirable. They, especially the young, are rewarded in many ways but, not by their employer who is
protected by legislation or tacit approval and, in my world eyes is an abuse of power dressed in humanitarian clothes.
And David, if being the ideal guest in a country is what tunes your moral compass, you're lost. There's more to life than the Mexican way. There's
the human way as well.
What's more important to you? Don't bother..........I know.
Barry ----
Unions suck. They had their day and place. That place is gone.
I would never tell anybody how to run their business, especially Mexico. But, neither Mexicans or anybody else here will tell me how I will
perceive what I see.
Throughout this thread, people have suggested that I don't have a clear understanding of Mexico. Oh God, do I agree with that. But, they went
on to instruct me toward a better understanding of Mexico and, with most of them, I disagree.
If anybody here thinks that my premiss was wrong, well, all I can say is, "shame on you for lack of human decency."
|
|
|
Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Just dancing through life
|
|
Dang
As Dennis did point out I started this post and I have followed it very closely but I did NOT wish to jump in until now.
I have to say that I agree with Mrs. FDT 1,000%. I also agree with what Dennis is trying to say even though I do not believe allowing kids to bag
groceries for tips is bad.
The exchange of ideas has progressed in a basically positive track even though it did not really follow my beginning thread. I learned a long time ago
that thinking with ‘feelings’ can be a very positive thing…………this, along with so many other ‘feeling’ things was taught to me by my Mexican friends.
I am fairly sure that the majority of you have been exposed to the same approach from your years in Baja. That is what I have attempted to do here.
I do believe that it is a far cry to speak of an 8 year old kid getting run over and killed by a farm tractor and a kid bagging stuff for tips.
I have cared about David K for a long time and I am, more and more coming to appreciate Dennis’ feelings about Baja things even though I often do not
share his views. I know that I have just fallen in love with another mans wife because of her thoughts expressed so well in this thread………Sorry
fdt……..I just could not help my self……..So please understand my ‘feelings’ and forgive me.
Dave, I’ll say nothing about your contributions because I know that no matter what I say you will send a very pointed zinger my way………….Okay I do like
you also.
My diaz pesos.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
Thanks Bernie ...
For future reference, that's diez pesos. Porfirio quit making them a long time ago.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
3
4
5
6
7
8 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
