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Skeet/Loreto
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Caboron:
Yes "Do as you Feel" but remmber that in doing that you may do Harm to Others, therefore it is your responsibility to take care of the Damage to those
that you have Harmed.
Be Wise, Thoughtful, Caring, Kind when Doing as you Feel!
Skeet
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Caboron:
Yes "Do as you Feel" but remmber that in doing that you may do Harm to Others, therefore it is your responsibility to take care of the Damage to those
that you have Harmed.
Be Wise, Thoughtful, Caring, Kind when Doing as you Feel!
Skeet |
Excuse Me.....But...........The major damage is done by those
using the Alcohol and by the incredably selfish cigarette
smokers who blythely polute the air we breathe with gross
inderference.
Are the cigeratte smokers doing anything to restore health
to their siblings, children and everyone within breathing
distance ?
NOT
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Bajabus
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Bruno Thanks for your post.
When you really sit down and take a good hard look at the numbers, our present policy just does not add up.
What's the definition of doing the same thing over and over agin the same way and expecting different results?
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked of such a thing."
Dwight David Eisenhower
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Bajafun777
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Ok, I got it we will legalize drugs and everything is going to be great and no more problems. All of our kids will be allowed to become drug
dependent but since it's not illegal it will be alright. I am starting to wonder if maybe some of this thinking is just a puff away from another bad
decision. Then if everyone one is stoned or under the influence like the song goes we just drop in to see what condition our condition is in. Sadly,
it will be a society of decay and more hurting because of drug use being totally out of control. Think about it, if we have such a tough time keeping
some sort of control now, where the hell would our Country be if we let drugs just totally drown our youth and citizens? I know it would be somewhere
none of you or anyone else wanting a safe community would want to be. Again, I see and deal with drug addiction and crimes resulting from it to say
it bad, real bad, and drugs can never be legal for use. If you think the bad guys simply go away just because you legalize something you really do
not have a clue as to the street world out there. Later--bajafun777
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajafun777
Ok, I got it we will legalize drugs and everything is going to be great and no more problems. All of our kids will be allowed to become drug
dependent but since it's not illegal it will be alright. I am starting to wonder if maybe some of this thinking is just a puff away from another bad
decision. Then if everyone one is stoned or under the influence like the song goes we just drop in to see what condition our condition is in. Sadly,
it will be a society of decay and more hurting because of drug use being totally out of control. Think about it, if we have such a tough time keeping
some sort of control now, where the hell would our Country be if we let drugs just totally drown our youth and citizens? I know it would be somewhere
none of you or anyone else wanting a safe community would want to be. Again, I see and deal with drug addiction and crimes resulting from it to say
it bad, real bad, and drugs can never be legal for use. If you think the bad guys simply go away just because you legalize something you really do
not have a clue as to the street world out there. Later--bajafun777 |
blah blah blah
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Skeet/Loreto
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Bruno: I read your Post again.
It comes to me "What is the "Cause" ?
Being and Old Timer, I think of the 60"s, where the Hippies started and the "If it feels Good, Do it" thing started.
Then I go to the 1968 and the "Flower Children" Berkeley Era.
Then to the "Free Sex" and the "Selling of Sex and Drugs on the TV.
Then to the Breakdown of the Family unit, with Both Parents working.
Then the take over of the Educational System by the Govt. Unions, and Consulers.
The teaching of Fear and Dependence on the Govt.
Is the use of Drugs an escape from Fear??
Education, Intervention, Counseling and Jails have not worked.
How would Legalization change to make it work??
Skeet
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Bruno: I read your Post again.
It comes to me "What is the "Cause" ?
Being and Old Timer, I think of the 60"s, where the Hippies started and the "If it feels Good, Do it" thing started.
Then I go to the 1968 and the "Flower Children" Berkeley Era.
Then to the "Free Sex" and the "Selling of Sex and Drugs on the TV.
Then to the Breakdown of the Family unit, with Both Parents working.
Then the take over of the Educational System by the Govt. Unions, and Consulers.
The teaching of Fear and Dependence on the Govt.
Is the use of Drugs an escape from Fear??
Education, Intervention, Counseling and Jails have not worked.
How would Legalization change to make it work??
Skeet |
Nothing will ever work.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
Nothing will ever work. |
Good. That means this meaningless thread is dead. Good.
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Gnome-ad
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While I wrote this there wer more posts and I feel a little out of the loop, but I'm going to post this anyway.
This has been an interesting thread with many thoughtful, informative as well as emotional posts. I agree with many of you, and I think you know who
you are. I also think it’s good that we can have differing opinions, but express them pretty much without name calling. It would be nice if we were
also not judgmental of others whose psyches work differently than ours. It might feel safer to some if everyone were “naturally high” without the use
of anything besides bread and water, but it also might be a much more boring world lacking many of the great works of mankind. I believe that many
amazing insights and creative processes have involved the use of intoxicants of one type or other by some of the greatest authors, artists, musicians,
philosophers, etc. in history. Mind and consciousness expansion has intrigued mankind ever since we crawled out of our cave and looked at the stars
while gnawing on that fermented mango or whatever. Even lack of sleep can act like a drug. And being human, we can be addicted to anything – sex,
alcohol, tobacco, sugar … even the internet.
We live in a chemical laden world of over-prescribed pharmaceuticals, and cooked up powders. There are a few “natural” highs, and like it or not,
smoke it or not, marijuana is one of them … having a plant be illegal is one of the least enforceable and most misguided policies our
government has ever made. And like I said before, it was vilified for financial interests of men who would rather cut down trees that take years to
grow to make paper, or use petrochemicals to make rope, than have farmers grow a crop that is imminently more renewable and less harmful to the
environment.
It is a natural herb with hundreds, if not thousand of uses besides the intoxicating effects. Educate yourselves. Throughout time it has had many
uses: medicine, cloth, paper, rope, oil, cosmetics, and on and on … many believe it is The Tree of Life that is promised in the Bible. Too bad so many
fear it and that it has been forced into bad company because of that fear and propaganda.
It has been around forever and our nervous system even has a receptor designed specifically for it. Did God or Nature make a mistake? I’m not saying
it does not cause difficulties for some people, or that everyone should light up, but if we are truly honest we surely know in our hearts that other
substances are more harmful. Have you ever heard of anyone dieing of an overdose??? In my old hometown several college students in the past few years
have died of alcohol poisoning after binge drinking. That only highlights the need for education. Their buddies might have seen that the partying had
gone too far if there were more awareness that a person CAN DIE of an overdose of alcoholic beverage besides by car accident.
I also agree that operating a motor vehicle in an unsafe manner, whether under the influence of drugs, alcohol or only testosterone poisoning, should
mean stiff penalties. Hopefully I’ve said my peace and can stop now. But I must say I do enjoy a good debate when one is available and I have an
opinion. Thanks for bearing with me and expressing your thoughts as well.
Gnome-ad
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. - Ancis
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edinnopolo
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| Quote: |
that's why youhave free will
do whatever you llike |
That's alright as long as you don't infringe on the rights of others. The trouble with being high though, is that the perception of what other peoples
rights are get a liitle out of focus. And doing pot is no exeption.
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DENNIS
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- - - sigh - - -
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edinnopolo
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Go to bed Dennis
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Gnome-ad
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edinnopolo ~
I would include talking on cell phones in restaurants with that ...
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. - Ancis
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gnome-ad
edinnopolo ~
I would include talking on cell phones in restaurants with that ... |
BIG YES ---- Leave it in the car!
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comitan
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Bajafun
If you have kids, how are you ever going to let them out into this cruel world, not trusting that you did a good job in raising them. Kids Adults
have a mind of their own, if they chose the wrong road nobody or any law is going to change them. I guess what really comes down to is trust, trusting
that people will do the right thing.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Mexitron
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Gnome-ad...again good thoughts...reminded me of a story about the late,great scholar Joseph Campbell--when he was younger and living in Carmel in the
30's he had gone into a depression and his friend at the time, Eddie 'Doc' Ricketts (of Steinbeck fame) told him all he needed was a good drunk--Eddie
got him plastered and wild and it shook him out of the rut!
Its not always the solution but every now and then it can be a good thing
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BajaBruno
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There's no sense in starting with the 1960's, Skeet. Move the clock back a few years to the 1920's when Prohibition was driving scores of artists and
intellectuals to Paris so they could drink and feel free, and speakeasies pouring adulterated alcohol were everywhere in the US;
or the Gay (18) Nineties when the rich were acting like hedonists;
or maybe the late 1700's when William Wilberforce wrote, “Intelligent accounts of foreign countries, which have been recently published, indicate
that religion and the standard of morality are declining everywhere abroad even more rapidly than in our own country, At the same time, the progress
of irreligion, and the decay of morals in our own country must alarm every considerate mind and forebode the worst consequences, unless the growing
evil can be halted."
Seneca (ca. 4 BC–AD 65) wasn't too pleased with things, either: "Note the youths of the noblest lineage whose extravagance has flung them into the
arena; note those men who cater to the passions of themselves and others in mutual lust, whose days never pass without drunkenness or some signal act
of shame; it will thus be clear to you that there was more to fear than to hope for."
The Greeks before him also complained about the decay of morals. The fact is, that morals really haven't changed much at all through the life of
humanity. Humans, for whatever reason, like what we call vice. Maybe we call it vice because the powers-that-are know that we will engage in it and
therefore know they can control us by forcing us to ask forgiveness for being human.
We think that the addiction rate has alarmingly risen, but it has always remained pretty much the same. What I do know is that no government or
religion has ever been successful in stopping vice, whether it be drugs, alcohol, gambling, or prostitution, and, I know that putting people in jail
has never stopped vice. Just ask the Taliban.
Skeet, you can yell to people, “Let my conscience be your guide” all you want, but nobody is going to listen, because you aren’t them and nobody is
going to let you run their life for them.
The first tenet of addiction therapy, so I have heard, is admitting that you have a problem and the things you have done so far to deal with it have
been wrong. That is where we, as a nation, must start. We have to admit that incarceration, scare tactics, and appeals to other people’s value
systems have not worked, and will not start working by sending people to prison longer or giving more arms and ammunition to corrupt politicians in
foreign countries. Let’s try to remember that we administer drug programs so well that Afghanistan, a country that we supposedly control, just had
their largest heroin harvest ever.
Let’s admit that what we’re doing isn’t working, cut that program to the roots, and start over with a workable system that involves education and
rehabilitation.
[Edited on 9-10-2007 by BajaBruno]
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Bajabus
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bajafun777. The facts do not support your ""feeling". In other countries where marijuana is legal it's use is much lower per capita than here in the
USA where it is illegal.
For instance the Netherlands:
Lifetime prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) in 2001
USA 36.9% Netherlands 17.0%
Past month prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) 2001
USA 5.4% Netherlands 3.0%
Lifetime prevalence of heroin use (ages 12+) 2001
USA 1.4% Netherlands 0.4%
Incarceration Rate per 100,000 population 2002
USA 701 Netherlands 100
Per capita spending on criminal justice system (in Euros) 1998
USA €379 5 Netherlands €223
Homicide rate per 100,000 population Average 1999-2001
USA 5.56 Netherlands 1.51
Cannabis use among young people has also increased in most Western European countries and in the US. The rate of (cannabis) use among young people in
the US is much higher than in the Netherlands, and Great Britain and Ireland also have relatively larger numbers of school students who use cannabis.
The figures for cannabis use among the general population reveal the same pictures. The Netherlands does not differ greatly from other European
countries. In contrast, a comparison with the US shows a striking difference in this area: 32.9% of Americans aged 12 and above have experience with
cannabis and 5.1% have used in the past month. These figures are twice as high as those in the Netherlands.
The money we are currently spending would be much better spent on prevention and education rather than incarcerating people for marijuana
possession.
Dave, I say we still need to spend the money if it's legalized because I don't think the "abuse" problem will magically disappear. It's a health and
mental health issue not a criminal issue. All we are doing now is enriching the drug lords and feeding a massive criminal enterprise while exposing
marijuana users to a sleazy criminal element they would not otherwise have to feed and deal with.
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked of such a thing."
Dwight David Eisenhower
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amir
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
... Let’s try to remember that we administer drug programs so well that Afghanistan, a country that we supposedly control, just had their largest
heroin harvest ever... |
You bet! Wasn't that the real purpose of the last few wars we had? To control the drug trades? It's sick, but it's true. Our government doesn't want
to eliminate the drug cartels. It wants to be IT! And the government doesn't want you to dose yourself, with whatever it might be, it wants you to buy
their "approved" drugs. It's all sick and the argument has been going around for decades, no, really for centuries, even millenia. Take the "crime"
and guilt out of human nature and replace it with the Golden Rule. Wars, all wars, even wars on drugs, have created more horrific conditions making it
that much more necessary to find alternative states of mind to escape.
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BajaBruno
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This is purely anecdotal, but several years ago it was reported in California that education had curbed the teenage smoking rate dramatically, but
there were still a few hard-core smokers (as there will always be).
So, some brain-child politician pushed through a bill making teenage smoking illegal (prior to that it was only illegal to sell to a minor). I said,
"Oops, wrong idea." Several months later, the newspapers reported a mysterious increase in teenage smoking and nobody could figure out why . . . I
wonder.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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