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fishbuck
Banned
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Pot is already legal in California for medical use. The law is written very broadly so almost any medical condition qualifies.
When I broke my collarbone a while back I was having a very difficult time to lay down and heal.
So I membered from my youth that smoking some pot might just help me do that.
I went to the Pot Doc and got my recomendation Card. With that I could walk into any of the Medical Marijuana Coops and buy up to 1 ounce per day or
grow my own. There are alot of these coops. And the pot is unbelievably strong. Guarenteed to make you lay down and watch tv all day.
A recomendation is good for 1 year but needs to be renewed at 6 months with a follow up visit to the Pot Doc. I let mine run out because it was just
to hard on my lungs.
Plus I was back to work by then and subject to testing. The federal government does not acknowledge California law on the issue.
I think it is a good idea because it is regulated by the state. And no way would I buy street pot when I can safely walk into a little pot store and
buy from about 10 different varieties including certified organic pot!
Just legalize it all and let the chips fly. It's better than the stupid drug war.
Okay time for a beer!
[Edited on 10-22-2008 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Gnukid:
You finally came out with you very true Thinking"Power to the People".
I feel sure that you meant "Poorer People" or would it be Younger People? or maybe Older People??
When I was in College so many years ago I spent some time on different Politics and the Use of Power by Groups of People>
The one Thing that I learned about that Excersie is that you will be more Powerful in the End if you "Build Up" instead of Tear Down. Something the
Commies and Socias have still yet to Learn.
That is one reason they have been unsucessful. Think about it_ You don't want to get on that Horse unless you can control it!!!!
Skeet.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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There are Medical Marijuana laws in many states now. All managed differently. Some have dispensaries and some do not. All are in contrast to the
Federal Law which still Criminalizes ALL use. Obama has stated his plan is to decriminalize. He admits that he inhaled, finally one with courage and
honesty on the subject.
I hope that with State and Federal Laws in accord that there will be more research on the canabanoids, the active ingredient in marijuana. There are a
number of these canabanoid molecules in marijuana and each has a different effect. Some are stimulating while some are soporific. Some are very good
at relieving pain, ocular pressure and other discrete effects. Research has been very limited on the effect of these compounds due in part to the
criminalization of its use. The human brain has canabanoid receptors, many of them, and this is of great interest and of great potential benefit to
us. There may come from this plant a number of specific compounds of medicinal value. The current research is now underground and being done by
growers who having been forced underground have mixed the native varieties of the new and old world. Today’s pot is not your daddy’s pot.
For those who have trouble smoking there are devices that vaporize the active ingredients so one does not need to scar ones lungs in order to extract
the active ingredients.
This drug has powerful medical effects as an anti inflammatory and pain medication. Those who live in states that have legalized it’s medical use are
fortunate to have an easy to grow, inexpensive alternative available to pharmaceutical drugs that perform the same functions.
A word of caution, there is no free lunch, and with all drugs there are potential side effects and potential harm in misuse and abuse. Again, I am not
advocating for the use of drugs. I have seen functional neuroimaging studies that demonstrate brain damage from prolonged and excessive use of
alcohol, cocaine, and marijuana. We all are familiar with the famous Cheech and Chong characters and their wacky ways. That “dopiness” is evidence of
brain damage, so users beware. There is also something affectionately called “the munchies” which can add on unneeded pounds.
Skeet
Don't look now but Social Security and Medicare are Socialist programs. Scandanavia ain't doing so bad. There are inherant flaws in Capitalism, and we
are seeing this now, wealth accrues to the few where Socialism and Communism sap the creative juices of a society, why do anything if generativity and
creativity are not rewarded and if the state provides every thing for you. A proper balance is what succeeds in societies.
Iflyfish
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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First, basically San Diego, San Bernardino and Merced had opposed the medical marijuana Card legalization program but they were sued by the ACLU and
lost. Then they filed Appeals. This week the Supreme court decided not to consider the appeals. So as of yesterday, Oct 21st, medical marijuana is
legal in all of California and counties and cities must recognize this and provide cards and locations to distribute medical marijuana today.
As many people know, San Diego is dominated by Federal military and their presence and population has altered the mood of what was once a great place.
This case reasserts the role of the individual and their rights within the state over the dominance of the Federal and military over the civilians.
The success of case demonstrates the Power of the People to determine the laws and direction of their communities.
In reality nothing was overturned or changed, simply reaffirmed, the court said current State laws and citizens rights must be respected.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081017-9999-1m17p...
http://www.northcountytimes.com/articles/2008/07/31/news/san...
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v08/n945/a01.html
And every marijuana patient may have caregivers who may legally carry marijuana for them under their own marijuana caregiver cards-attached to a
patient's card-check with your doctor and county-they must comply by law, today.
[Edited on 10-22-2008 by gnukid]
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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To All:
There is a Glaring absense in this discussion of Drugs,Their Use, Their Effect, and what do do about them: That is the Effect up on the Innocent!!
That Person that takes a Drug to the Point they are uncontrolled are putting my Life in Danger for their own <Misguided, weak-minded, desires!!
\
I can Swim with the Sharks, Jump out of an Airplane, Ski a Cornice at Mammouth, do many things that puts my Life at Stake, but to walk down a Road and
have a DRUGGIE run over and kill me is not acceptable in my way of Thinking.
Some how we as a Society of Humans must learn that we do not have to take Drugs.
Would it change us if 20 million People died overnite from Drugs?? I think not. Might it be that there will be a new world someday with out Drugs??
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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As I posted earlier, to live is to take risks. The fact that we have guns, alcohol, moving cars, trucks, trains and planes, power generation are all
facts of life and all carry inherent risks. Drugs should be no different. You can take your last argument Skeet about drugs and replace it with the
word alcohol. So should we also outlaw alcohol?
I prefer fewer laws than more and make people responsible for their actions, whether or not they take drugs, drink alcohol or just act stupid...
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Skeet
No one is arguing that there will be no harm from this change in public policy. You make a valid point that people will continue to be harmed by those
using drugs, guns, sex and rock and roll (loud music causes damage to hearing). This will always be the case.
This discussion started because the President of Mexico has decided to propose a different approach to the problem rather than to continue to have
armed warfare on city streets. How about the 12 year old girl in Morelia killed in crossfire? How about the potential for getting hit by shrapnel when
another grenade goes off?
The point is harm reduction not elimination. BajaGringo's point is well taken; substitute Alcohol in your comments above. As a society we will always
have to deal with harm reduction when it comes to guns for instance. Banning them will never work.
There will still be problems with addiction and innocent family members suffer greatly when they have a family member addicted to drugs. I recall a
heart rendering story told by another Nomad about how this has affected his personal family. How about the harm done to people jailed now for
possession? What of their families, lost jobs etc.? These things already exist; hopefully a more nuanced policy will reduce much of the harm that
already exists.
There is real possibility of Mexico becoming a failed state; I am not making this up. It is hard to get one’s mind around that possibility. Who has
read The Kite Runner? Who could have anticipated that lovely Kabul would lie in rubble? Who would have anticipated that Beirut, third largest city in
the Middle East, once the centre of Dar al-salam, the Muslim world, for centuries a major trading hub would be reduced to a war zone? Can the Mexican
government muster enough troops to fight a hand to hand, block by block urban war against Drug Cartel terrorists? Who loses in that fight? Are you
aware that some two million innocent civilians have been displaced in Iraq as a direct result of the war? That is 2,000,000 people, men, women and
children who have been forced to leave their homes. This is the real cost of urban warfare. You see the effect of this war on tourism? How about it’s
cost on immigration with wealthy Mexicans leaving the country? If this "War on Drugs" escalates in the streets of Mexico would you want to live in a
major city?
Iflyfish
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Maybe we, we being the USA and Mexico should just, declare "Victory!" in the drug war. We won! It's over! Sorta like the end of prohibition! Might put
a lot of cops out of work? Might get 'em to redirect their resources to
important things, like armed robbers, child molesters, etc.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Uflyfish: I was including Boose in my use of Drugs. Drunk Drivers kill people.
A drug users familu does not enter in to the Equation as well as those that have been killed in the Iraq War.
My Take: In my view Our President made a very tough decesion to do something about a Leader who had killed close to 500,000 People including using Gas
on many. The byproduct killing of many innocents is yes very bad, but is that not the same Byproduct Killing that Harry Truman had to make when he
decided to use the A Bomb.?? Saving lives in the Long Haul??
Now the above statement is not related to Drugs, but would it not be "Better" if the Addicted Druggie was elimanated? was considered a ByProduct
killing to save innocent lives in the Future??
If later it was discovered a particular Gene was causing Addiction to Drugs that we could at Birth eliminate that Gene>.
Again, we can make all kinds of "What ifs" but when you get to the root cause of any type of Drug Addiction it comes down to "Choice of the Indivudal"
who in my view is Flawed by Weakness,.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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For some time now, the practical application in effect is that in Mexico individual use of marijuana is not a punishable offense because of the
tenuous nature of the individual drug use law.
As we know, the proposed change in Mexican law has been proposed often over the last 5 years and passed by representatives repeatedly thus to become
law only required the signature of the president (who proposed it) yet under pressure he declined to sign the amendment, yet, reportedly due to
pressure to receive million from the US president under proposed Plan Mexico.
Thus the defacto understanding is that the current law does not match the desired will of the President of Mexico. This recent revival of the story
marks the 4th time a Mexican president has stated the intent to pass the amendment in the last 5 years, I think.
If questioned you are supposed to say "I am an addict" (in Mexico) to be legal. That's why if someone is smoking pot in public in Mexico people say,
"do you tell your parents you are an addict" jajaja.
If you are interested in more about this, review the initial thread link for proposed drug law reform by Calderon, signed drug reform laws by Mexican
Representatives, recent opinions of the California Supreme Court affirming County compliance with proposition 215 passed into law in California.
In the consideration of health, personally I would discourage anyone from any drug use including marijuana, alcohol, caffeine, tylenol, even
antibiotics etc... unless you require it for medical purposes.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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----there is growing evidence that a little booze (reads hard liquor) every night is beneficial--------up to 5 ozs for men, and 3 ozs for
women---------I just read that in some "health letter", I think the Mayo Clinic, but not sure----I get several.
Barry
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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I just discovered this thread, and have read it thru entirely, which takes some time, believe me. It is one of the most interesting threads on the
subject I have ever read.
It certainly makes me re-evaluate my position, and I am not sure where I come down now. I spent 10 years as a Fed. officer and foot-soldier in the
Drug war in N. California and S. Oregon and we sure thought we were "making a difference" but who knows. I never saw any corruption, tho, at all. We
sure destroyed a LOT of MJ, and it was a real kick. 
I am disturbed by the references in GnuKid's piece involving heavy govt. involvement in the drug trade-----that smacks of "vast right wing
conspiracy", "Kennedy asassination conspiracy", "9/11 conspiracy", and Michael Moore stuff--------all impossible to really believe, and seemingly the
products of really paranoid folks (with an agenda???).
But none the less, there is some really good points made on this thread and I, for one, really appreciate your opinions-----all of you.
Barry
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
My Take: In my view Our President made a very tough decesion to do something about a Leader who had killed close to 500,000 People including using Gas
on many. The byproduct killing of many innocents is yes very bad, but is that not the same Byproduct Killing that Harry Truman had to make when he
decided to use the A Bomb.?? Saving lives in the Long Haul??
... |
Skeet, if I understood your justification for bombing in WW2, may I ask you consider that it has been shown and admitted that the US power brokers
specifically the Bush family were funding N-zi Germany under Hitler for profit, while fighting as much as they are now funding war with Afghanistan
and Iraq while profiting. Justifying these deaths for profit is hard to do...
Its a matter of public record that many would apparently like to forget, Prescot Bush and E. Roland Harriman were convicted felons for their role in
support and profiting from support of N-zi activities with Hitler along with Union Banking Corporation. Or if you were speaking about Japan... shall I
go there?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldw...
http://brasschecktv.com/page/263.html
http://www.rense.com/general42/bshN-zi.htm
Unfortunately, few are willing to accept what is written by US courts and a matter of public record. I can understand that it is difficult to imagine
a worse set of circumstances.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Gnukid-----------you gotta stop reading all this stuff------it will drive you nuts, and us too. There is NO WAY that I am going to buy into any of
this stuff in your references if the Media has declined 100% to report it-----that just makes no sense at all. The Press would dealy LOVE to expand
on stuff like this if they thought it was credible.
Barry
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I am disturbed by the references in GnuKid's piece involving heavy govt. involvement in the drug trade-----that smacks of "vast right wing
conspiracy", "Kennedy asassination conspiracy", "9/11 conspiracy", and Michael Moore stuff--------all impossible to really believe, and seemingly the
products of really paranoid folks (with an agenda???)... |
Barry, thanks? I have no horse in this race except to respond to misdirection... such as yours.
I challenge you to refute anything I wrote.
Consider the misdirection of the Bay of Tonkin Viet Nam, Bay of Pigs, Cuba, WMDs in Iraq. These are well documented lies, admitted by the President in
power at the time.
Now this brings to mind something more important:
Why would Nomads turn against on each other in light of these facts?
Why are most of conditioned to deny facts which scare us?
Why do we accept so many minor news reports while others such as those which demonstrate CIA involvement in so many crimes, which are so frightening
we deny.
Why are we not outraged?
What is the limit prior to outrage?
Skeet, what is bravery or strong will mean in this case in light of what we know?
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
The Press would dealy LOVE to expand on stuff like this if they thought it was credible.
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Each of these stories is reported in WSJ, NY Times, UK Guardian. I have included many of those links as well others. Do a search in Google for any
keywords followed by NY Times, for example CIA drug plane NY TIMES.
I think its time you consider your role in this by attacking me and supporting the agenda as opposed to considering the issues which are reported on
back pages, just not on the cover.
By the way, I have many other things on my mind and have enjoyed many activities and encounters this week, as well as met people from around the
world and of all ages, so perhaps these experiences allow me to see the hegelian dialectic which misdirects people such as yourself in a left-right
paradigm.
Wahooo Here I am this week joining the crew of a historical recreation of a Chinese Junk from China to the USA round trip. I think you need to get out
and turn off the TV. I am learning Chinese, xie, xie (thank u).
[Edited on 10-22-2008 by gnukid]
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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whoaaa....what a great thread indeed...I just want to say that Iflyfish changed MY life when he came into it...his reasoning is clear, consise,
honest, with no agenda but to educate....he is an astute, knowledgeable proffessional whom I admire and appreciate.
good for you Gnukid for doing the research and having the guts to reveal what most dont want to even thing about, let alone believe.
Skeet....I was so glad to see you at least appreciate Ifly's points....very good sign...but I too would like you to substitute drunks for druggies....
um...should we "eliminate" the drunks who kill people on the highways and in their homes????
Someone must have some data on alcohol related deaths or accidents as opposed to weed caused deaths.... I'm ready to bet a fishing trip that alcohol
causes WAY more accidents and deaths than herb....so I would be careful about axing "druggies" who cause accidents if you are not prepared to
"eliminate" other substinance abusers too who cause them.
I bet alot of good pals of lots of nomads would be executed if it came to "eliminating" people who cause accidents due to intoxicants.
Dao....check your U2U for the deer's address and specific directions to the amenita areas...dont forget...only one bite!(hahahahahah)
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Gnukid---------As Obama would say, "no, no, no, no, no" I was NOT attacking you, and I am sorry you took it that way. I found ALL the comments (as I
said) on this thread very interesting, and I was not "attacking" anybody other than the originators of the "references" you cited.
I am sorry if my tone offended you-----that was unintentional.
I am sure that you and Iflyfish are very knowledgeable, and both of you are very eloquent----so much so that sometimes I am not sure what you are
saying, not being a word-smith. I did read the references, but yes, I am skeptical, but I try to keep an open mind------some of that stuff is just
too mind-bending for me to except at face value, I guess.
Anyway, I do appreciate your sharing your knowledge with us.
barry
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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That's a great looking junk there gnukid! What fun! Have your read the controversial book 1421? The premise of the book is that the Chinese
circumnavigated the globe in 1421, a great read, though controversial in historical circles.
Barry A and Shari, thank you for your kind words. You both are people that I greatly respect. A number of people have expressed appreciation for this
tread and for the most part it has been a very civil dialogue. We are all better off when we can disagree and still respect each other. I love
retirement and having the time to write, what a privilege! I really enjoy and appreciate this site; it has provided me with an opportunity to meet
some extraordinary people! There are some amazing people on this board! Ya got to love the internet! Some people on this board have become lifelong
friends and for this I am grateful. It is a privilege to be part of a community like this and to share our experiences, adventures and thinking with
each other.
Barry A. It is very disturbing to say the least to consider the possibility of the government of the USofA being involved in drug distribution. Alas
the history is not a good one. In 1996 Gary Webb or the San Jose Mercury News wrote a series of articles examining the exchange of drugs for guns in
the Iran/Contra affair. http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/webb.html This is a dark part of our history. Recall that Congress passed laws banning the shipping of arms to the
Contras and the Reagan administration did so anyway. The entire incident makes for some fascinating reading. For a more comprehensive over view you
can find it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking
There are very powerful vested interests in the general population not having this information. The myth of the Liberal Media is just that, a myth.
The history of CIA involvement with LSD is a real eye opener. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA I do understand that Wikipedia is composed by ordinary citizens so it is not authoritative in and of itself.
However Wikipedia can be a very good source for threads to research and documentation of various issues. I try to find numerous sources supporting
any hypothesis that I run into. The internet is a wonderful resource for us in this way.
Gnukid expresses outrage. Don’t you think that would be an appropriate response if what he is reporting is true? I think so. I too am no conspiracy
theorist, I do however read a lot and know for instance that this year the information about the Gulf of Tonkin incident was released and it is true
that it was a fictional incident used to gin up Congress to support the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution authorizing the Viet Nam War.
Iflyfish
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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"the Gulf of Tonkin incident was released and it is true that it was a fictional incident used to gin up Congress to support the Gulf of Tonkin
Resolution authorizing the Viet Nam War. "
According to a history of LBJ being shown on PBS the purpose was largely to show the American people that the Democrats were tough on Communism right
before the LBJ / Goldwater election.
Back to drugs, I really believe there is a need to treat each one differently. NO WAY should metamphetamine be legalized in any amount. It should be
illegal for the chemical companies to manufacture the precursor chemicals and meth dealers need to do hard time.
On the other hand, marijuana is rather harmless. The current penalties and the number of people in jail because they have ignored the marijuana laws
don't make any sense whatsoever. Don't legalize it, but treat it in much the same way traffic violations are treated.
Cocaine is similar to marijuana in this respect but perhaps somewhat more serious. Coke made into crack is much like meth.
Heroin use is a rather static situation. There will always be junk and junkies. Sort of a living death.
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