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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
That the AP will assign Eleven "Fact-Checkers" to the E-mails as they have to Palin's book ?
Probably Not.
So far, the TV media has "mentioned" the story in passing, but hasn't gone into what was said by whom. That may change, but it's not a story they
want to cover and risk offending the Gorian Cult. |
Fox News will probably take care of that.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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You guys can debate all you want on both sides of the issue. What i see is a globe that has not changed in size to any great amount since before
recorded history. At the same time, population growth is staggering. Does anyone really believe that good faith stewardship of this earth does not
require some mitigation of the stress that this ever-growing population causes? I won't get into receding glaciers and rising seas. But geez. I began
flying cross-country for business reasons in the late 60s. Anyone out there who traveled at the same time? Can you disagree with the fact that the
view from 40,000 feet had more clarity then than now? Something is there. And don't get me started about why the climate change thing is merely a
reason to divert monetary resources. Consider the recent wars of choice that have vastly enriched a privileged few.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Bajahowodd;
Yes : I have been plying the waters of the Mar de Cortez since 1967. Water is the same level, Temps are the same, Fish is changed a little { depending
on the Cycle} but I cannot see any Climate Change in Baja.
When the Good Lord made nature , he included "Survival Of the Fitest" It is still that way.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
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Registered: 9-16-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Government makes a far greater profit (like 4 times more) from every gallon of gas than Exxon or any oil company... explain the logic there... All at
the same time it prevents us from getting energy from our own land... making us buy from hostile countries, instead!!?? Huh??
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the US is ranked number 1 in total energy use per capita (8.3 tons of oil equivalent per person)
gasoline in US is relatively cheap. our average retail price of gasoline (incl taxes) is ranked 102 out of 142 countries, and the price of gasoline
in US is 0.77 of the world-wide average price.
petroleum taxes pay for roads, and are appropriate.
dk, if you don't like cost of motor fuel, then quit driving a wasteful gas guzzler, and ride your bike to the supermarket. DK, when was last time you
rode a bike to the store? criminy! you live in so cal and can ride a bike almost every day of the year without threat of rain.
dk: quit being a slave to your car, get out there and get some exercise and save money for beer and obama's socialist programs 
ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!
give a hoot, don't pollute!
yes we can
[Edited on 11-26-2009 by mtgoat666]
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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| Quote: |
give a hoot, don't pollute!
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funny chiite!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Government produces NOTHING but TAKES and TAKES.
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Sure glad extremism doesn't exist isn your vocabulary. Must be that desire to be the mediator on this board
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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I do ride a bike! Baja Angel and I each have one... Fun stuff... But for productivity, I can't get any (water saving) drip irrigation or MP Rotators
to my customers (all over the county) on a bike! So, I have the smallest pickup that can do the job... a V-6, at that... and that very same vehicle
doubles as our Baja recreation car... Talk about being conservative with our natural resources!
America is the most productive nation because we want to work and produce! We use more energy because we make more things for the REST of the world...
and that includes FOOD! As much as you may want us to consume and produce like Botswana or Guyana, it just isn't reality. Too bad you never learned
about American greatness and freedom... the envy of the world! We take a lot, but we give MORE!
Happy Thanksgiving goat, I am just so sorry you have no clue of the meaning of the holiday... It's a crime what the public school system has done to
the last generation... who think Thanksgiving is about how we stole the land from the Indians!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Government produces NOTHING but TAKES and TAKES.
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Sure glad extremism doesn't exist isn your vocabulary. Must be that desire to be the mediator on this board |
Not sure what a mediator is, but I don't want to be one of them, anyway.
Please enlighten me on what government produces that creates wealth and jobs... what industry is it?
Thank you, and Happy Thanksgiving!
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BajaNews
Super Moderator
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Firms turn to Baja for harnessing wind
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jan/17/firms-turn-ba...
By Sandra Dibble
January 17, 2010
LA RUMOROSA, Mexico — This small mountain community near the U.S. border got its name from the sound of wind whispering through rock and pine. Now for
the first time, the wind is being transformed into energy as it blows through five giant turbines just outside town.
With its formal launching weeks away, the $26.2 million state-owned project marks the modest start of a major push to turn this sparsely populated
area of Baja California into an important center for wind-energy production, both for domestic consumption and for export to the United States.
At least two San Diego County-based companies, Sempra Energy and Cannon Power Group, are planning large projects along the north-south wind corridor
that runs along the ridgeline of the Sierra Juarez, a mountainous region between Tecate and Mexicali known for its strong and steady winds.
Proponents say a combination of other factors also makes the region attractive for investors in wind energy: proximity to the California market, lower
land and construction costs, and a faster permit process.
“Let them bring hundreds, thousands of turbines,” Baja California Gov. José Guadalupe Osuna Millán said in a recent interview.
Osuna and other wind-energy supporters say the projects will mean economic benefits for Baja California, creating jobs for construction workers and
technicians, demand for services and revenue for communal landholding groups, or ejidos, which lease their lands to the power companies. The projects
also will help the state decrease its dependence on fossil fuels, which produce carbon emissions that contribute to global warming.
“We have a surplus of potential,” said David Muñoz, director general of the Baja California Energy Commission and in charge of directing the state’s
renewable energy projects. For Baja California, Muñoz said, “there are net gains from private companies developing their own wind projects and
exporting power.”
While several private companies are looking at Baja California with an eye to California’s energy market, the state of Baja California’s small wind
project is exclusively for domestic use.
When operating at full capacity, the five turbines will provide 80 percent of the public-lighting needs in Mexicali. Savings generated by the project
will be distributed among 35,000 poor families in Mexicali, to help them pay electric bills and purchase energy-efficient air conditioners and other
appliances.
The plan is to increase the capacity tenfold, using the electricity for public lighting in Baja California’s five municipalities.
The project “puts Baja California at the vanguard of the green movement,” Osuna said. “The world needs to change its sources of energy. We’re seeing
the acceleration of climate change.”
Mexico ventured into wind energy last year with two wind farms in the state of Oaxaca: Las Ventas II, operated by Mexico’s Federal Electric
Commission; and Eurus, administered by the Spanish company, Acciona. Across from the Texas border, a $340 million wind farm is under construction in
the state of Tamaulipas to provide energy to 43 communities for public lighting, water delivery systems, hospitals and public buildings.
For private companies, La Rumorosa’s proximity to the United States makes it an attractive location because of California’s requirement that utilities
derive 20 percent of their electricity from renewable sources by this year and 33 percent by 2020.
The most advanced private project in Baja California is by San Diego-based Sempra Energy, whose planned Energy Sierra Juarez project outside La
Rumorosa would generate up to 1,000 megawatts of energy for export to the United States. Next year, the company hopes to begin construction on the
first phase, which would generate from 100 to 125 megawatts.
Art Larson, a company spokesman, said Sempra is awaiting permits from Mexico’s Environmental Protection Secretariat and the U.S. Department of Energy.
Also in the works in the same vicinity is a project by Del Mar-based Cannon Power Group. The company has leased 70 square miles in the Sierra Juarez
region, where it is planning a 400- to 500-megawatt project, enough to power about 200,000 households.
Gary Hardke, Cannon Power Group’s president, said the project would be built in phases, and initially focus on the Mexico market, “and have a
longer-term alternative of exporting into California.”
La Rumorosa “is a very hot up-and-coming area,” Hardke said. Baja California officials have been very supportive, he said, while “California is a very
difficult place to develop a project,” because of community opposition, regulations and problems with assembling enough property to make a project
financially feasible.
A study by the consulting group Bates White lists La Rumorosa as the area with the second-highest wind energy potential in Mexico. A big hurdle for
reaching the California market is transmission capacity.
For the California market, “the Baja California wind resources is actually if not the most attractive, then one of the most economically attractive
wind resources,” said Nicolas Puga, the study’s author.
Despite the assertions of state officials, the economic benefits to Mexico “are marginal,” Puga said. “It will create some small opportunities.”
The advantages are for the companies that develop and sell the energy “and not for the community,” said Margarito Quintero Nuñez, an engineering
professor at the Universidad Autonoma de Baja California in Mexicali. Quintero lamented that foreign companies are the ones moving in to develop wind
energy, primarily for export.
Alan Sweedler, director of the Center for Energy Studies at San Diego State University, said the potential for benefits to Baja California is there if
Mexican companies begin investing in their own projects.
“I think you have to look at it as an economic development issue,” Sweedler said. “It’s naive to think that Mexicans are unsophisticated business
people who are going to get exploited. I can’t see them doing something that’s not in their own interest.”
In San Diego County, a plan for wind farms has generated protests from East County residents, who complain that the farms are a blight on the
landscape, and worry about their effect on birds in the Pacific Flyway and other animal life.
So far, the strongest protests against the Baja California plants have come from north of the border.
“If the Sierra Juarez mountains were in the United States, it would all be parkland,” said Bill Powers, chairman of the Border Power Working Group.
Powers is fighting the Sempra wind energy project, saying that the company is using it to justify construction of the much-debated Sunrise Powerlink
in San Diego County.
Puga, the energy consultant, said Mexican environmental laws “are as demanding as in the United States,” but the permitting process is quicker because
“the public involvement process doesn’t open the door for every Tom, Dick and Harry to come in and complain.”
In Baja California, state officials are gearing up to grab opportunities they say wind energy will bring. The state university is forming a program to
develop technicians who can work on wind projects in Mexico and abroad.
Muñoz, the energy commission director, also hopes to see the development of energy transmission and collection systems “that would open investment
opportunities to smaller projects.”
“Our goal is to make this possible,” Muñoz said. “We don’t want just one big player in Baja.”
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BajaNews
Super Moderator
Posts: 1439
Registered: 12-11-2005
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Sempra To Build $5.5B Wind Farm in Baja California
http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/news.display...
05/05/2010
Sempra Energy (NYSE: SRE) announced plans to construct a massive $5.5 billion wind farm in Baja California (Mexico). The wind farm, which could cover
a total surface area of 294 hectares on completion, will comprise a thousand wind turbines.
The wind farm will have a total capacity of between 1,000 megawatts (MW) and 1,200 (MW), in four areas in Mexico’s Baja California. Jacume, La
Rumorosa, Cordillera Molina and Sierra de Juárez, which are located in the municipalities of Mexicali, Tecate and Ensenada, have been chosen for the
first stages of the project.
The first stage, located north of the village of La Rumorosa, will consist of 52 wind turbines and will cost $300 million to build. In total, Sempra
Energy will invest up to $5.5 billion on the entire project.
No timeline was given for the project's start or completion.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
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Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Ask the enviromentalists:
How many birds have been murdered by those giant meat grinders?
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Maybe you (and the "environmentalists don't understand how the modern wind turbines work.
To help your understanding of turbine hazards to birds I'd like to make an analogy, to your bicycle. Turn your bike upside down or put it in a work
rack, set it to the highest gear...the one you use to go fast on a level slope.... and now move the wheel slowly with your hand. The chain moves
rapidly with only a few degrees of wheel rotation. This symbolizes today's cutting edge 1.5 mW turbines, which have a very large surface area of blade
exposed to the wind and a gearbox that turns the dynamo quickly while the blades move slowly. Birds dodge these slow moving blades relatively
easily.
Bob Durrell
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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I was kidding Bob... but covering our mountainsides with all those giant propellers when just one nuclear power plant could make all the power of
every wind farm in the country. Seems like we are wasting our resources and destroying the natural landscape.   
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GrOUper-GAr
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Registered: 1-9-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I was kidding Bob... but covering our mountainsides with all those giant propellers when just one nuclear power plant could make all the power of
every wind farm in the country. Seems like we are wasting our resources and destroying the natural landscape. |
I dont know David K,
But No matter How safe, 'accidents' from Human errors, ARE GONNA HAPPEN.
---and now we have some serious consequences from these Human errors that we are unprepared to deal with---
-Mercury Pollution and events such as this BP Gulf oil "leak" or a CHerNObYL disaster are easy to FIX as compared to...
...a broken wind mill ?
These are VERY ReaL catastrophes, the makings of which are in our AREA now and aging.
C'mon,
Pollution?
We can agree that Pollution SucKs.
But, not all Pollution is equal.
Some pollution is little more than an eyesore,
While others permeate life's core (food, water, air, body).
Now, I'm not a scientist But, i think one Causes CANCER...
Perhaps Your (who gives a sh!T We're gonna be hit by a 'meteor') attitude would change if one of these hit the southern California coast, or YOUR
beloved 'SHell BeaCh' David
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MERCURY EFFECTS:
Over the years, many companies have used mercury to manufacture a range of products including thermometers, thermostats and automotive light
switches. Although the metallic mercury in these products rarely poses a direct health hazard(note: PLATINUM DAVE, you can stop now and believe just
that previous line), industrial mercury pollution becomes a serious threat when it is released into the air by power plants, certain chemical
manufacturers and other industrial facilities, and then settles into oceans and waterways, where it builds up in fish that we eat. Children and women
of childbearing age are most at risk.
Once mercury enters a waterway, naturally occurring bacteria absorb it and convert it to a form called methyl mercury. This transition is particularly
significant for humans, who absorb methyl mercury easily and are especially vulnerable to its effects.
Mercury then works its way up the food chain as large fish consume contaminated smaller fish. Instead of dissolving or breaking down, mercury
accumulates at ever-increasing levels. Predatory fish such as large tuna, swordfish, shark and mackerel can have mercury concentrations in their
bodies that are 10,000 times higher than those of their surrounding habitat.
Humans risk ingesting dangerous levels of mercury when they eat contaminated fish. Since the poison is odorless, invisible and accumulates in the meat
of the fish, it is not easy to detect and can't be avoided by trimming off the skin or other parts.
Once in the human body, mercury acts as a neurotoxin, interfering with the brain and nervous system.
Exposure to mercury can be particularly hazardous for pregnant women and small children. During the first several years of life, a child's brain is
still developing and rapidly absorbing nutrients. Prenatal and infant mercury exposure can cause mental retardation, cerebral palsy, deafness and
blindness. Even in low doses, mercury may affect a child's development, delaying walking and talking, shortening attention span and causing learning
disabilities.
hmmmm, I WILL TAKE THE WINDMILLS please
! PrEFeRiR!A eSTaR eN baJa !
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3290
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Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Well that settles it, I'm giving up on my mercury powered power plant design, could have saved myself a lot of work if I had known this earlier.
Now, what to do with all this mercury I've been stockpiling........let's see, there's a large arroyo behind the house.......
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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I have never been on 'Shell Beach', but Russ makes it look beautiful!
I think the idea of solar electric panels on homes (where there is more sunlight than cloud cover) is a great way to reduce demand... but we still
need to make more electricty unless you think we should become a 3rd world nation?
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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It is much more cost effective to reduce demand than to add capacity.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I was kidding Bob... but covering our mountainsides with all those giant propellers when just one nuclear power plant could make all the power of
every wind farm in the country. Seems like we are wasting our resources and destroying the natural landscape. |
Wrongo!!
In 2008, wind machines in the United States generated a total of 52 billion kilowatthours, about 1.3% of total U.S. electricity generation. Although
this is a small fraction of the Nation's total electricity production, it was enough electricity to serve 4.6 million households or to power the
entire State of Colorado.
The amount of electricity generated from wind has been growing rapidly in recent years. Generation from wind in the United States nearly doubled
between 2006 and 2008.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energy.cfm?page=wind_home-basics
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Nuclear power accounted for about 20% of the total net electricity generated in the United States in 2008, about as much as the electricity used in
California, Texas, and New York, the three States with the most people. In 2008, there were 66 nuclear power plants (composed of 104 licensed nuclear
reactors) throughout the United States. Most of the reactors are east of the Mississippi. The last new reactor to enter commercial service in the
United States was the Tennessee Valley Authority’s Watts Bar 1 in Tennessee in 1996.
In 2008, TVA resumed construction on Watts Bar 2, which was about 80% complete when its construction was stopped in 1988. It is now expected to be
completed in 2012.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energy.cfm?page=nuclear_home-bas...
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Soooooooooooooo
let x = the number of nuclear reactors required to generate the amount of electricity currently generated by wind turbines
x/.013 = 104/.2
x = 6.76 reactors
or in a step wise fashion
if 52 billion kilowatthours = 1.3% of total U.S. electricity generated
total U.S electricity generated in 2008 = 52/0.013 = 4000 billion kilowatthours
Nuclear fired = 20% = 800 billion kilowatthours
Each reactor on average = 800/104 = 7.7 billion kilowatthours, usually 2 reactors per station so 15.4 billion kilowatthours per station
Stated above - 52 billion kilowatthours already being generated by wind
So even in this early stage of development wind is already generating electricity worthy of 52/15.4 = 3+ nuclear stations or 6 to 7 nuclear reactors.
I hope I got the arithmetic right, if not I'm sure I'll hear about it.
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DK - Stick to old paper maps and crumbling catholic churches - you do that stuff well.
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The only problem I have with wind turbines is that spinning things want to fly apart, and these are BIG spinning things, and there will be a lot of
them. A career in the wind turbine maintenance field would be promising.
[Edited on 5-19-2010 by k-rico]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18397
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I was kidding Bob... but covering our mountainsides with all those giant propellers when just one nuclear power plant could make all the power of
every wind farm in the country. Seems like we are wasting our resources and destroying the natural landscape. |
Wrongo!!
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DK - Stick to old paper maps and crumbling catholic churches - you do that stuff well.
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dk is wrongo about so many things.
but i will credit dk for being pro-nuke. i like nuke power, and would really like to see US develop a long-term storage site so we can solve waste
disposal issue (why don;t we let the crackers bury it in zonieland?). dk doesn't realize it, but his pro-nuke stance is best stance for cutting green
house gas emissions and curbing global warming that WILL destroy his precious dirt island (aka shell island).
dk also doesn't know that his pro-nuke stance is very "french"
dk will die to think he is a GHG-cutting francophile
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
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Sorry goat. But although I could get aboard the nuke thing eventually, I really have to step back and question how long it will take to achieve truly
green nuclear power. The scientists have been touting fusion for decades, but have not come close to realizing their dream. Current nuclear technology
still provides us with an abundance of toxic leftovers, much like my mother-in-laws Thanksgiving dinners. While I truly hope that we are able to
produce benign nuclear energy in the foreseeable future, and hope that we invest enough capital to support it, currently, I believe that wind and
solar deserve much more investment than they are currently receiving.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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K-pobre y cabra:
Boy, I sure can get a rise out of some of you... If anyone else said the same thing, would you bother taking the time to read and respond?
You guys really need to take a drink and chill out...
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