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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8923
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Its Pole Line Road time
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
1. There is an increase in anti-Mexican sentiment in the US because of the immigration issues---- |
During my last Baja 4WD trip, my Wife and I stopped in Valle de la Trinidad for dinner. The big screen TV was set to CNN (USA), during the
REPUBLICAN DEBATES. Michele Bachmann was in the middle of one of her tirades and there sat Mrs. Cooke and I.
The way my Parents were treated in the 1950s and 60s, I feel an obligation to the Mexicans and Mexican-American people to be hospitable and
accomodating, because of the long discussions my Parents had with my Brothers and I about how "The White Man" treated my Parents in the South in the
1940s and 1950s and here in S. California in the 1950s-1970s.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8923
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Its Pole Line Road time
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Tirades? I guess you like it when Obama bows to the Saudi king or apologizes for the U.S. at every possible chance...  |
During dinner, Michele Bachmann was yelling (w/the 60" Plasma TV cranked up), "WE HAVE GOT TO BUILD A 30 FOOT WALL TO KEEP THE ILLEGALS OUT!!"
Normally, I don't like Tea Party Conservative talk, but during a PEACEFUL Baja trek in Baja?? It felt like PUNISHMENT to say the least.
I stand UNITED with my LATINO brothers and sisters.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Whoopi-doo to you!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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WOW ... and we aren't in OT !!!! 
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Cooke
During dinner, Michele Bachmann was yelling (w/the 60" Plasma TV cranked up), "WE HAVE GOT TO BUILD A 30 FOOT WALL TO KEEP THE ILLEGALS OUT!!"
Normally, I don't like Tea Party Conservative talk, but during a PEACEFUL Baja trek in Baja?? It felt like PUNISHMENT to say the least.
I stand UNITED with my LATINO brothers and sisters.
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Doesn't matter that the adjacent country is Mexico; could be any other country, color or language. The point is that our border is being breeched by
folks who do not have a right to be here. And that so many of our neighbors want to come here to escape their own country.
Build the wall and you can still visit your Latin bro's just as you do now. You just won't have to worry as much about CA and the US going bankrupt.
And read the police blotter in our area; 60% of the drug and violent crime perpetrators are illegals or the children of illegals.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Glad they are Catholic ... just saying
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Glad they are Catholic ... just saying |
We accept all religions; this is not a matter of religion or racism, it's a matter of security and economy, not a matter of having friends from other
places.
Everyone needs on approved VISA to enter for whatever purpose or length of stay as we do in Mexico, Canada, etc.
My great grandmother came from Europe and lived here under a VISA for many years.
To idealistically remove all borders in our world would be moving backward to the days of migration and group/tribe territories which would get us
more conflict with more groups in smaller areas - worse yet.
Just my "just saying" Wess, not a rebuttal to you.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Glad they are Catholic ... just saying |
We accept all religions; this is not a matter of religion or racism, it's a matter of security and economy, not a matter of having friends from other
places.
Everyone needs on approved VISA to enter for whatever purpose or length of stay as we do in Mexico, Canada, etc.
My great grandmother came from Europe and lived here under a VISA for many years.
To idealistically remove all borders in our world would be moving backward to the days of migration and group/tribe territories which would get us
more conflict with more groups in smaller areas - worse yet.
Just my "just saying" Wess, not a rebuttal to you.
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If this is about security, shouldn't we build a wall on the northern border, too? Seems like a few terrorists have been known to come down through
Canada.....
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Yeah, plus all that "COLD" air that comes sweeping down in the winter ..
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astrobaja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 952
Registered: 5-22-2006
Location: near San Pedro Martir Park
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Mood: beam me up
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Ok Ken I gotcha, peace ok?? See this is why the internet is NOT the forum for any sort of negotiations like this, throw in a language barrier and its
doubly rife for misunderstanding!
Our grasp of Spanish is pretty good face to face, but jeez over the internet all bets are off it seems, just degenerates the way things often do.
People lets lay off Ken, I think Dianas right whether we like it or not politics of north of the border (especially the Az fiassco) affect how Mexican
nationals view immigrants to Mexico.
I think Ken a lot of the park guys you know have moved on to different jobs, although Alfredo is still there (the same one as in Graham McIntoshes
book on the sierra).
About the off roaders we still would prefer it if the majority passed by the Coyote route, unless of course they want to visit us.
peace out
Mike and Pamela
\"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.There is another theory which states that this has already happened\"
Douglas Adams
our website: http://bajadarkskies.com |
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
If this is about security, shouldn't we build a wall on the northern border, too? Seems like a few terrorists have been known to come down through
Canada..... |
Security and economy.
And by "wall" I mean an adequate method of securing our border.
The "security" need may be the same for both borders but the "economy" need is greater on the southern border at this time.
I am not against a similar "wall" on our northern border at some time if the need becomes as great.
Also, are you talking national security or the security of small towns and others from increased crime ? I'm talking both.
[Edited on 2-25-2012 by Diver]
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2394
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
Whoopi-doo to you! |
Don't get down on Ken.
He is a Latin lover; bought one and brought her home ! |
that was completely uncalled for
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8923
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Its Pole Line Road time
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| Quote: | Originally posted by astrobaja
Ok Ken I gotcha, peace ok??
People lets lay off Ken, I think Dianas right whether we like it or not politics of north of the border (especially the Az fiassco) affect how Mexican
nationals view immigrants to Mexico.
I think Ken a lot of the park guys you know have moved on to different jobs, although Alfredo is still there (the same one as in Graham McIntoshes
book on the sierra).
About the off roaders we still would prefer it if the majority passed by the Coyote route, unless of course they want to visit us.
peace out
Mike and Pamela |
This information was posted on the Baja 4X4 forum for more people to read and discuss. Hopefully, the topic of a looming land closure will not be
obscured by subtopics discussed above.
Baja4x4 thread:
http://www.baja4x4.org/foro/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19487&am...
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by desertcpl
that was completely uncalled for |
OK, I'll delete mine and you can delete yours and we can all be just like DK.
Sorry but I was just stating the facts as I know them.
Didn't Ken post about the "introduction Service" or some such thing through which he met his wife ?
I believe that you pay for such services.
A friend "bought" a European girl; paid for her intro service, VISA, airfare, living expenses ......
Perhaps I phrased it wrong for you ?
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
Member Is Offline
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Who said I was judging ?
Just stating the facts as I got them from Ken; why is this bull ?
If Ken is open enough to tell us about it, why should you be offended ?
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15938
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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| Quote: | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not racist I hate you all the same "middlefinger" jajajaja
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And by doing that, you dont discriminate anyone, lol...
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i think we all have been following (with tongues dragging!) Ken's nuptials.........
that said, i'm not following the turns of your (plural, as in all ya'alls) intestines like some are known to do, but if the above doesn't make you
SCREAM with laughter-at yourselves as well as others, well, YOU SUCK!
all of you!!!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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As to the original problem brought up by Astro---------I was the Chief Ranger and later Recreation and Law Enforcement Branch Chief in El Centro for
the Southern California Desert District of the BLM for 13 years (1973 thru 1986), and in implementing the "plan" for the use of the California Desert
we closed a lot of roads that had been used by the public in the past--------and those closures were about 90% unsuccessful---------nothing worked in
the way of barriers, baracades, fences, large stones, concrete blocks, reenforced concrete, trenches, and steel barriers, etc. etc......They were all
just "challenges" to the rogues within the Off-road community.
----UNTIL we really got in and worked with the OFF-ROAD community and clubs----talked a lot, and listened even more-------then gradually we, and the
clubs, made some progress in compromise. But understand, the problem will ALWAYS be there--------some folks just won't compromise!!!!
My conclusion: gates anger some folks, period (heck, they anger me!!!). And when people get angry, they do some radical things that they would not
ordinarily do. Don't fight these people, Astro, work with them and be patient---it takes a lot of time and work, and ANY hostility on your part sets
you back days, weeks and months, IMO.
The accusation that there was ANY racism in this situation is just plain silly, IMO, and bringing it up just alienates folks from each other. Don't
be so bloody sensitive------it seldom gets you anywhere in the long run---------people "say things", and nothing you angrily rebut with will change
anything, IMO, other than destroying conversation and causing more hostility.
(this whole situation brings up nightmares with me) 
Barry
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bufeo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 793
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Member Is Offline
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Good post, Barry.
Allen R
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astrobaja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 952
Registered: 5-22-2006
Location: near San Pedro Martir Park
Member Is Offline
Mood: beam me up
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Wow Barry thanks for that, can't imagine the job you had to do! A nightmare indeed!
I'm sure some of that rogue element is now coming to Baja Norte where the perception is that they can do here whatever they like.
I am also reading the really nasty things ranchowners in the USA are doing to trespassing
off roaders like wires across roads at tire level to flip someone off their bike, jeez its like a war zone, no wonder the BLM are armed now! (arn't
they?)
Luckily for us we are in communication with various clubs and most of all that there is an alternate route!!! This is key, otherwise we could never
win!
But like you say I'm sure it will never go away 100% All we can hope for is to minimize the problem.
One thing going for us is that the Mexican attitude towards life is a bit more accomodating and relaxed, they will take the path of less resistence
whenever possible.
Right now we dread every weekend, and are basically not able to leave for fear of some "desmadre" happening!!
anyhow thanks again Barry for your insights!
Mike
\"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.There is another theory which states that this has already happened\"
Douglas Adams
our website: http://bajadarkskies.com |
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8923
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Its Pole Line Road time
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
| Quote: | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not racist I hate you all the same "middlefinger" jajajaja
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And by doing that, you dont discriminate anyone, lol...
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i think we all have been following (with tongues dragging!) Ken's nuptials.........
that said, i'm not following the turns of your (plural, as in all ya'alls) intestines like some are known to do, but if the above doesn't make you
SCREAM with laughter-at yourselves as well as others, well, YOU SUCK!
all of you!!!
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I decided to stop posting comments from the club members. If they are inclinded to do so, they can register with BN and post their thoughts here.
The "middlefinger" comment was posted by a NORTHERN European/Scandanavian who resides in Mexico - a European/Mexican(?). He was attempting to diffuse
the tension by his post.
I agree with Barry A. with regards to working with the 4WD clubs. To piggyback off of Barry A's comments, AstroBaja would benefit by allowing local
4WD Clubs from the Mexican region to MAINTAIN the routes near his Home/Place of Business in the form of an ADOPT A TRAIL. When the rogue individuals
have any beef, AstroBaja AND the local 4WD Clubs can address the individuals. I am willing to bet the same individuals who made the "Middlefinger"
comment would be interested in assistance in maintaining the trail for AstroBaja since they also indicated that they enjoyed the route past La
Concepcion/Baja Dark Skies and The Observatory.
As for me "buying" or making some sort of "purchase" - That has got to be one of the ignorant things I have ever heard. Are you kidding, Diver?
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