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DENNIS
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Bajalero ---
Big request for word power. Your term, "Dirt Pimps".
Can I borrow that? It's perfect.
Dennis
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Bancoduo ---
He'd be arrested for entering the country for not going through a port of entry. I looked into it.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Good night.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Jesse
How can you think, even for a second, that migration is bad for Mexico? I mean, you folks with new shoes export your unemployed to the a--hole
American wasteland and get back twenty billion dollars a year in remittances, the second largest amount of foreign investment behind oil.
You claim a low unemployment rate. Yeah, why not? All your unemployed are in the states.
C'mon Jesse --- Dont be one of those who throw the racist card every time you get upset. I didn't call Mexicans enchiladas. I refered to the two
trillion ton enchilada in the same vane as everybody [of course not you] refers to the Tortilla Curtain.
You are right, America needs immigrants. Im glad that's fact because my grandparents were from Ireland.
But, you know what Jesse, they came into the U.S. legally.
HonestlyJesse, I wouldn't be that concerned about illegal immigration if people like you, just exactly like you, didn't express their entitlement to
ignore our laws. Our laws are our laws but they dont mean crap to you or your track star buddies.
I live in Mexico and respect Mexican Law. I also obey it. Your disregard for U.S. law is the attitude which will start a war.
Viva Aztlan, right? |
Imigration is a symptom of the failure of an economic system. If Mexico was doing well and growing at 5 to 7% annually, we would would need to be
importing people, not exporting them. The 20 billion we get from remitances pales in comparison to the couple of hundred billions we could be
generating if those millions of people lived here and where productive members of a solid economy.
Enchilada seems a harsh term to me, and probably to many others, i am not trowing the race card here, but i would prefer you call me a Mexican, not an
enchilada.
Dennis, if you don't want illegal immigration, don't blame the migrants, blame your goverment. Its easy to blame the illegals for "breaking the law",
but then again, why arent you angry at your corporations and everyday citizens that hire them? What we have here, is a nation that needs fresh labor,
but at the same time, doesn't want to deal with the problems that come along with that. Don't you see why politicians turn a blind eye to this
problem? its because they know full well that if they suggest realistically, that america should let in 1 to 1.5 million people each year in order to
keep up, the people would not accept it. And in this case, the people do not know better.
I respect your laws, and i think they should be obeyed, but its blatantly obvious YOUR goverment is not in any hurry to stop illegal immigration. Why?
because you need it, so as long as you can't even find a way to make your own corporations follow the law by not hiring illegal immigrants. you can't
demand that the average dirt poor jose stops at the border and say, "i am not going to cross the border because its illegal".
Oh and, there isnt going to be any wars, not inside of your nation, and not betwen our two nations. both our futures are linked, and we have a lot of
nastier stuff to deal with in the coming years than illegal immigrants and enchiladas. It would be stupid to waste our time and resources figuring out
ways to divide us, when the real dangers are growing far far away from our shores.
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JZ
Select Nomad
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If I was poor and had no opportunity, I'd being crossing the border as well. Anyone who thinks or says differently is full of crap.
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MrBillM
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Do It ALL
Build the walls, increase the Security Forces, Enforce the Laws , Fine and Throw in jail the businessmen who break the law.
Get Control.
The U.S. economy will work just fine with whatever legal immigration is necessary.
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DENNIS
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Jesse ---
I couldn't agree more. Government, in support of business is the reason for this mess.
Again, I didn't call Mexicans "enchiladas". The rolling enchilada was a reference to the migration dynamic. I wont defend myself on that issue any
more. If you want to ignore my explaination and read what you want to read, that's your call, Jesse.
If I were into name-calling, I would use some of the more common words and phrases but, I'm not and I wont.
You and I have agreed, probably as much as we ever will on this subject so I suggest we give it a rest. Perhaps someday we'll met and if the mood is
right, we can drag the issue out and beat it up some more. Till then Jesse, hasta luego.
Dennis
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oxxo
Banned
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I have been watching this thread from the beginning, while maintaining an open mind. Watching and digesting. Some very interesting perspectives.
But now, I think everything that can be said has been said.
In my opinion, JESSE is making the most sense.
[Edited on 9-21-2006 by oxxo]
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
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Location: Sunset Beach
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Absolutely!
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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BajaJim
Junior Nomad
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Registered: 9-25-2006
Location: Phoenix
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I have to say I have pondered ALMO and I have to say I think he has made a fool of himself. I, from what I have read and studied, do not think there
was any vote fraud. Nor do I think that AMLO has the backing. I have heard from locals that the folks in the Zocalo were being paid about 2000 pesos
per day. Also, I think if there were fraud they would have had a larger gap. Also, there were many observers from all 3 parties and foreign vote
monitors.
As far as revolution, I think that is a bit ambitious. Keep in mind that the US would be called in by Calderon to help stabelize any government take
over.
The person who started this thread said we should be more responsable keeping up with the current situation. I will tell you I have tracked it from
July 2 til today and if you do a search on 2006 Mexico Presidential election, the search went from many thousands of articles to a very few. Also, if
you search Orbrador it also has become very quite (on Google).
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longlegsinlapaz
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Okay, I can’t stand it anymore!!! Initially, I didn’t post to this thread because to me, it seemed pointedly political…i.e., the Mexican Presidential
elections, the candidates & their actions, and the fallout on predominantly the Mexican people, but also gringos living & owning property
here. Then it seemed to kind of evolve.
My dos centavos....I feel that the illegal immigration into the USA was actually allowed to escalate to the enormous proportions it
has by the US Government & US businesses. They turned a blind eye to illegal immigration by allowing it to continue. I believe it's beneficial
to BOTH countries. US employers hire illegals knowing full well that they are illegal. US companies reduce their taxes by paying workers under the
table & they reduce their overall operating costs by not paying benefits packages; they alone benefit the most, the workers lose out on benefits
& the wages they’d otherwise be getting if they were legally employed, and the Government loses in tax revenue.
The illegal workers get a living wage…by their standards, typically not by our standards. They can earn enough to both live in a country where the
cost of living greatly exceeds the cost of living of their own country, and they can send money back to families living in Mexico. I can see how
enticing this would be to financially poor Mexicans. US employers take advantage of the situation by paying less than they would to a legal worker
& the Mexican has no recourse but to accept it because there are thousands (millions) of other illegals willing to take their place in a
heartbeat.
And those that are so quick to judge & point fingers need to be aware that there are SOME illegals working in the USA who DO have a US tax ID #
and ARE paying taxes, but who are nonetheless denied access to medical insurance & any of the welfare or assistance programs. I personally know
two people who fall under this category! But I know they are in the minority.
The US immigrations laws are #1. A JOKE! Based on the quotas allowed to begin the legal process, individuals from some countries would have had to
begun the application process in 1988 to be just now coming up for review! #2. The INS is so backlogged by the quantity of people applying through
legal channels that they will NEVER get caught up! #3. This is a huge moneymaking situation for the USA Immigration lawyers who fight the US system
for as long as the illegals can afford to pay to prevent deportation; and those are only the ones who have been caught! #4. The US has historically
condoned illegal immigration by turning a blind eye on it because it was financially beneficial to the USA to do so, while mouthing empty words about
the entire situation. #5. The elephant is sitting in the living room, and he’s so huge that there is NO WAY to get him out!
Personally, I’d vote to have the border opened before I’d support construction of a wall. IMHO, a wall would be a HUGE WASTE of money that could be
much better used elsewhere. A wall can be gotten over, around or under by anyone with the determination to get to the other side. I feel it’s
hypocritical of the US Government to be taking their current stand on a situation they’ve allowed to evolve to the point where it doubtful that an
equitable solution for both the USA & Mexico is achievable.
I do NOT promote illegal immigration and all it entails, but I can & do understand it! I sincerely believe that the problem would never have
reached this magnitude if the US made the process to acquire legal status easier, quicker & more affordable. I do feel that there needs to be a
filter in place to not allow convicted persons into the country, and I also believe that the USA should work with Mexico to come up with a plan to
deport illegals convicted of crimes in the US back to Mexico to serve their time at the expense of Mexico. So call me Pollyanna!
I feel English is the national language now, just as it was when our forefathers immigrated from where ever each of our personal gene pools
originated. I believe, that the national flag of the host country should be flown higher than any other flags. And, yes, I was incensed when I
stopped at a fast-food place in the LA area and not ONE SINGLE EMPLOYEE in the place spoke English. I'm guilty of not speaking fluent Espanol, but I
do make an effort & can make myself understood in their language, combined with mime & drawing in the sand if necessary!
I definitely don’t have all the answers, but I do know that an acceptable solution (to me) has not yet been proposed, nor is one that I’d vote for
likely to be proposed, based on the potential solutions I’ve heard thus far!
And we wonder why we have the name “Ugly Americans”!!! Some of the comments posted to this thread make me ashamed & embarrassed to share American
status with at least one poster! Bajamatic, thank you for taking the time to go back & find the post where
DENNIS admitted his illegal presence & work in Mexico & total disregard for Mexican laws. I remembered it immediately upon
reading his posts, but didn’t take the time to go back & retrieve it! DENNIS, it’s obvious from most of your posts that you are
both intelligent & knowledgeable about Mexican laws & history (MUCH more so than I!), to the point that I feel you knowingly &
intentionally baited JESSE by posting terminology that I found to be offensive & I’m a gringo! We are guests in this country and
the laws and the people of this country deserve to be treated respectfully, just like you expect to be treated respectfully here. You owe
JESSE an apology!!! You owe the Mexican people an apology! What you said in print is considered racial slurs in MY book, and if
you’d post it here that tells me you’d say it publicly. Don’t feign surprise when someone takes exception to your disrespectful terminology; you’re
too intelligent to think that you could honestly get away with throwing out offensive & stereotypical racial slurs….you knew what you were doing
when you posted it. And you’ll know what you’re doing the NEXT TIME you post something like that….just as I’ll know what I’m doing when I hit the
“REPORT” button the next time I read that kind of crap!
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sylens
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
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i appreciate those who, like longlegs and jesse, take the time and energy to process a topic as difficult and emotionally provocative as this one.
thanks for helping me better understand my own position.
lili
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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Longlegs ---
I read your post and was actually hurt by it. That should please you.
I thought of letting it go to its own resting place but couldn't bring myself to do that. Some things just require attention.
My pain was not for me so much as for you, Longlegs. I am, on a daily basis, confronted by my brother Americans who dont read the news, dont study
history, cant project to the future and tend to see U.S./Mex relations as no more complicated than their last purchase at a taco stand. [ Oh,
excuse me. I said taco. I hope that doesn't brand me as a racist ]
You and that Bajamatic dude like to refer to my comment about being here in the past illegally. Im legal now and now is where we are. Did you, or
anybody else who reads this, spend any time here, even a minute, without proper papers? Let me guess.
I baited Jesse? I dont bait anybody, ever. I speak my piece and it stands for itself and I dont think Jesse needs to be defended. He took care of
himself proudly. He knows how to carry an arguement in a productive way.
You dont.
You call me an Ugly American.
Can you see the wounds that I carry in my head from fighting for America?
Can you appreciate my 100% service connected disability?
You are ashamed of me?
You should be ashamed of yourself for giving me up just so you can consider yourself a model guest in Mexico. You even call yourself a gringo. If
you had any self respect you wouldn't use the word but, I truly believe you dont know any better.
You stated that what I said in print [ very profound considering the medium ] is considered a racial slure in your book. Your book, however thin it
may be, is a paragraph of ignorance. You have no idea what I actually said or why I said it. You just chose to be offended by it because you
thought it would be fashionable or PC.
Well, Longlegs, Im offended by you and your nasty estimation of me and if there is any shame generated here, it is mine for you and all other North
Americans who come down here and leave their national pride at the border. Im proud to be an American where ever I am. I think you're more proud
to be a guest.
Dont ever refer to me as an Ugly American again. I may be an ugly guest but im not an ugly American. You should consider what you are before
passing judgement on others.
So, there you go Longlegs. Press the report button if the truth bothers you.
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
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Location: Sunset Beach
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Legs!
That is exactly why I think before I jump!
Life is never simple!
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Bajamatic
Senior Nomad
Posts: 571
Registered: 8-31-2006
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" Oh, excuse me. I said taco. I hope that doesn't brand me as a racist"
no, but refering to the inlfux of mexican culture to the southwest US as a "two trillion ton enchilada" sure is.
"You and that Bajamatic dude like to refer to my comment about being here in the past illegally. Im legal now and now is where we are. "
That is pathetic. You were living in the country illegally. You proudly claimed it as though it were something cool you had done. And here you are
bashing any illegal immigrant who doesn't obey the law? Sorry - caught with your pants down here.
"Did you, or anybody else who reads this, spend any time here, even a minute, without proper papers? Let me guess."
no dennis, not even for a second.
"I baited Jesse? I dont bait anybody, ever. I speak my piece and it stands for itself and I dont think Jesse needs to be defended. He took care of
himself proudly. He knows how to carry an arguement in a productive way."
PLEASE! Jesse BURIED YOU! (and called you out on the enchilada thing too)
"Can you see the wounds that I carry in my head from fighting for America?
Can you appreciate my 100% service connected disability? "
Oh god. Please, don't blame this on Vietnam. We, I anyway, thank you for your service. That does not excuse you from being wrong.
"Im proud to be an American where ever I am. I think you're more proud to be a guest."
Hmmm. Lets get this straight. You are saying that this person, a guest while in mexico, is wrong to act like a guest? I think this person is
offended by the way you treat the people that surround them at present for fear that she might be judged for your actions. Anyone know a good name
for this?
[Edited on 9-29-2006 by Bajamatic]
[Edited on 9-29-2006 by Bajamatic]
yuletide
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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The Eye of the Beholder
This seems to have degenerated into the equivalent of an Elementary School playground brawl (My Dad can beat your Dad) with each side believing their
Buddies are the most erudite and the others "Special Ed" Kids. Talk about "The Choir".
It is Silly and untrue for Anyone to state that they feel Ashamed for anyone else. They simply
disagree with your view and want to make it seem unworthy of consideration. It is, however, a common trait of the Left. They seem obsessed with
Heart-Wrenching apologies for Americans Past and Present whom they consider lesser Human Beings. They're still Apologizing for
things America did a Hundred years back, as if they had any right to apologize for decisions made by others in a different time without having faced
the same thing themselves, but then that plays into another common trait among Liberals and that is their obsession with "Feelings"
as opposed to Actions.
Although I have Always been a Good Guest in Mexico and any other Foreign Country that I've been in, Like Dennis, I am
Always proud to be a citizen of the greatest Country on the face of the Earth, the U.S.A. Like any country we have made errors in
the past, but we truly have been "The Light of the World". We literally SAVED the Free world by defeating the Fascist powers in WWII
and we have since fought the World over in defense of freedom rather than personal enrichment.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
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Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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Viva la revolution
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Although I have Always been a Good Guest in Mexico |
 Is this the
same Mr. Bill M who uses his high powered VHF from his home in Puercocitos in violation of Mexican law, US law, and International law? Oh I know,
everbody else does it so it is okay for me to do it. You 'da man, MrBillM!
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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Wow oxxo you really know how to slam dunk a thread and a person. if you have a personal problem with some one why don't you u2u them. I hope you have
never done anything wrong in your life and if so I hope someone doesn't post it on the INTERNET
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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0xx0
Remember "Those who live in glass Houses should not throw Stones"
Your words show a Lack of Character more commonly referred to as a "Snitch".
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