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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Theres no other logical explanation, unless, the US goverment has politicians as stupid as the ones we have here in Mexico, and we all know thats not
true. |
Nope........ They're all the same.
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Look, politicians do not care if Amnesty costs a lot. They have us pay the bill and keep finding ways to tax us more. They believe our money is
theirs and they can spend it as they please. The illegal immigration costs us a lot and Amnesty will be an immediate cost that we be a bigger burden
all at once. I live on the border and our County of Imperial has all of our services pulled to their limits. The Feds are not paying the total cost
of controlling the illegal immigration issue and our schools, courts, hospitals, jails, juvenile hall, behavioral health, social services, and our
having to increase our communities infrastructure has been a total burden to our County. Nobody wants to see anyone starve, be harmed, or treated
unfairly but Mexico's issues can not be pushed totally upon the U.S. I agree as good neighbors we need to assist them in getting more production out
of their farming, ranching, manufacturing, scientific development, medical, etc. as a stronger neighbor makes a stronger friend. I like going to
Mexico always have even when friends are concerned about the dangers they read are happening in Mexico, tell them the same thing happens here.
Nothing will ever be equal or the same between Mexico and the U.S. as the U.S. is such a great strong Country I do not see Mexico ever catching up in
my lifetime. I think Americans support Mexico a lot with Tourism, U.S. Aide, Church groups that take missionaries in to help with buildings things in
their small communities that need help, and groups like the Baja Nomads that have special place in their hearts for the culture and lifestyle in
Mexico. However, as we may visit, may stay part-time, and even may live full time the U.S. we will always be true to. Lastly, on this forum I have
read where people ask questions about sometime be ok or legal a lot. I have seen where some old timers in Baja may not have been following the law as
it was meant to be in Mexico, but I have always seen where Nomads that know what the law is telling them to correct it and get into compliance with
Mexico's law. The readings I have read have never encouraged breaking the law. When I or my family is in Mexico we follow their laws and have all of
our paperwork in order, as if your documentation is not right you will kick yourself later. Now, it may be early but upon this writing pop a cold
one, eat some french toast using Sammy's recipe, then go for a walk, and as my friend in Mexico says, "No fight, Be Happy."
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oldhippie
Banned
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What's the big deal?
Some quick googling and simple arithmetic indicates that 5% of the population is here illegally and the annual cost to the American taxpayer is one
half of one percent (0.5%) of what the US Treasury department collects in taxes every year. This whole topic is relatively unimportant, except for the
bigotry of sooooo many Americans it demonstrates.
Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a
group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot
Statute of Liberty:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Facts open to debate:
number of illegal immigrants is tough to know, let's say 15 million
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0516/p01s02-ussc.html
population of the US: 302 million:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
15/302*100 = 5% of population illegally here
cost of illegal immigration: 10 billion per year
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
gross taxes collected by treasury (2003):
1,969,648,000,000 (that's close to 2 trillion)
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-128253003.html
10,000,000,000/1,969,648,000,000*100 = 0.5%
On the other hand, there's this:
http://www.costofwar.com/
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajafun777
Lastly, on this forum I have read where people ask questions about sometime be ok or legal a lot. I have seen where some old timers in Baja may not
have been following the law as it was meant to be in Mexico, but I have always seen where Nomads that know what the law is telling them to correct it
and get into compliance with Mexico's law. The readings I have read have never encouraged breaking the law. When I or my family is in Mexico we
follow their laws and have all of our paperwork in order, as if your documentation is not right you will kick yourself later. Now, it may be early
but upon this writing pop a cold one, eat some french toast using Sammy's recipe, then go for a walk, and as my friend in Mexico says, "No fight, Be
Happy." |
Call it what you want in Baja. There are 2 laws down there: one for Mex, one for Gringoes. If you are a Gringo breaking the law, the law is
enforced. If Mex, you might get a pass. Not exactly justice. Is it racism? Or is it just an opportunity for cops to make a little money
knowing they can get away with it?
All I'm saying is Gringoes are held to a different standard. And it's not right. I like the part, however, about having a cold one with my french
toast.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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We here have the same problem as does the U.S. government. We talk about immigration till we're blue in the face and come to no viable conclusion.
What will have to be done in order to turn down the heat in the issue is to get rid of the word, "Amnesty." We need another word. It doesn't really
matter what word or what it means but, the A word has turned into a challenge to fight. It has become a word which, at once, can start and stop a
conversation. The word no longer facilitates discussion. It has taken on the weight of other hot-topic words like, "Genocide."
The new replacement word should be plain and simple, easy to say and understand, like "Surrender." Now, there's a word that clearly defines the
inevitible path which America must take to resolve the immigration issue as we know it today.
"Surrender what?" you say.
Well, surrender to the situation that we as citizens and our congress have allowed to fester and grow to unmanagible proportions by turning a blind
eye to it in the past. Surrender to a larger power. We have cultivated our own cancer and now its time to go home and get our affairs in order.
Learn to live with it.
Does anybody really believe that ten or twenty MILLION undocumented residents are going to pack a duffle bag and return to a home which made them so
desperate that they had to leave to begin with? Wait in a virtual line for up to five years before they can legally return to the new life they have
built? Pay a five thousand dollar penance for their sinful ways? Go back to their old new life and start cramming for an English and citizenship
test?
This will not happen. How could anybody be so naive to believe that it could happen?
There has to be another way. We have to accept what we have done to ourselves and quit trying to turn back time. We have to surrender to the enemy
and, like Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
We have succeded in beating ourselves.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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BF777 --------
I'll take that cold one now. Thanks.
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Well, numbers and stats are what people play with. Do any of you really think that all 302 million pay taxes::look at how many the I.R.S. says is
actually paying taxes. I get so tired of the silly disgusting race card and name calling being thrown out when others arguements for an issue are no
better than the opposite side of the issue. Thus, I would never call someone a bigot, stupid, or a flaming radical for voicing their opinion.
Intolerance??? Did we not allow this amnesty thing for illegal immigrants once already with over what they estimated to be 5 million back during what
the 1980s sometime, so when does it end???? Do not do the illegal thing instead do the legal thing, respect our Federal laws!!! If this was about
legal immigration, which it is not, this forum issue would have very little in it. The one day of 9/11 cost how much?? So, let's not bring the war
in Iraq into this issue as it is already clouded enough. People have a right to voice their concerns on any issue and not be stamped with some stupid
name to slam their opinion. The same thing for those with different opinions, thus the old term "Different Strokes for Different Folks." Nobody
knows for sure how many people our economy can keep taking in before it starts falling down and God save us if another Depression ever happens again.
Our forefathers never could have dreamed this many people in America or our Constitution being pushed and pulled in so many ways but they tried to.
Never say never on a strong downturn in our economy and people have a right to be concerned especially if they are paying the bills!!! Now, I have to
pop two cold ones, I already took the walk, ate Sammy's french toast recipe and it was great even my wife said so. New call phrase "No Fight, Be
Happy."
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
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Mood: chiropractic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
Statute of Liberty:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door." |
Oldhippie,
Your writings in this thread show the warmth of your heart, and it warms mine, thank you. This subject of amnesty is a difficult one and it would be
so nice if it could be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. There are many other compassionate comments on this thread, too, and I appreciate the
frustration everybody is feeling.
What the Lady of Liberty says in the quote above is the American Dream, but times have awakened us to the rude reality of political hypocrisy.
Americans, in the eyes of the world, live by double standards. We attack, destroy and kill other nations to foster peace. We stockpile obscene amounts
of deadly nuclear weapons yet we forbid anybody else from becoming self-sufficient. We carry a big club around the globe and we overreact when anybody
else shows any sign of strength. Tha good 'ol USA would like to dominate the world, financially, militarily, and politically, and this is the folly
that it will be her undoing. Superpowers have never lasted very long; if history repeats itself, we are feeling now the pain of these wrong and failed
policies.
I don't know what the answer is, but all these issues will eventually come to pass, everything comes to pass. I hope that humanity evolves peacefully
and compassionately, and quickly! Like birth, that can be painful, messy, uncomfortable, and sometimes bloody, human consciousness is going through
the process of birth now, and these issues that cause so much pain to many are part of the birthing process. I hope that when it's all said and done,
that we'll be able to enjoy the healthy baby of true universal brotherhood and forget the pains of the past.
If we applied the principles that founded our great nation, this would be a much more peaceful and harmonious world. Unfortunately, many basic human
laws have been hijacked by a few and everybody else suffers in this hypocrisy. All these problems in current events could be very easily resolved if
peaceful intents were really there...
--Amir
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oldhippie
Banned
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Amir, I'm at a loss for the appropriate words to express what I think about what you just wrote. I've had the exact same thoughts. Exact! And you've
expressed them in way I never could.
I'm hopeful for the US though. If we stick to what the writers of the Constitution believed, and the other famous and unique American ideals such as
the inscription on the Statute of Liberty written by an American poet in the late 1800s, and Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation we'll be OK.
January 2009 is approaching. I can't wait.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Where do you get this s**t?
| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
Americans, in the eyes of the world, live by double standards. We attack, destroy and kill other nations to foster peace. We stockpile obscene amounts
of deadly nuclear weapons yet we forbid anybody else from becoming self-sufficient. We carry a big club around the globe and we overreact when anybody
else shows any sign of strength. Tha good 'ol USA would like to dominate the world, financially, militarily, and politically, and this is the folly
that it will be her undoing. |
So... The big, bad United States wants to dominate the world, eh? And just who would you support to stop her? Which country/ideology do you admire?
Who are your heroes?
I thought all you dinosaurs were dead.
Aparrently, we missed one. 
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
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Mood: chiropractic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
So... The big, bad United States wants to dominate the world, eh? And just who would you support to stop her? Which country/ideology do you admire?
Who are your heroes?
I thought all you dinosaurs were dead.
Aparrently, we missed one. |
Dave,
I get all this "s**t" from world news outside the US. I get all this by keeping my eyes and ears open about what is happening in the world, outside of
the illusory superiority within US borders. I don't know who to support to stop the self-destruction of a super-power, I think she will self-implode
in painful anarchy and revolution. This is what inevitable happens when the smoke and mirrors collapse - people rebel. My heroes have been
assassinated or over--powered with propaganda. Dinosaurs might be extinct now, but maybe they also evolved. We can only hope that mentalities like
yours also evolve...
--Amir
[Edited on 5-28-2007 by amir]
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Well...that narrows it down a bit
| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
My heroes have been assassinated or over--powered with propaganda. |
Want to be more specific?
And what "world news"?
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pargo
Nomad
Posts: 162
Registered: 9-14-2006
Location: Burbank Ca.
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...Nuff said....thanks Amir, you are right on.
That kind of reaction/attitude that you got from Dave (who i respect much)
is exactly what the rest of the world now sees us as...a hard headed, close minded and arrogant nation with no faults of it's own. This, as you say,
will ultimately lead to our demise. Great empires eventually fall as wisdom, profundity and sound judgement are often mistaken for weakness but most
always prevails in the long run
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
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Mood: chiropractic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Want to be more specific?
And what "world news"? |
Answer to question #1: NO.
Answer to question #2: "World News" means non-US sanctioned, distorted and/or fabricated for the purpose to brainwash the masses. World news is the
reality outside the smoke and mirrors of the only superpower on the earth today. World news is what you call dinosaurs.
--Amir
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Pargo and Amir, hate to break the news to you but this Country is not falling to any outside powers, you watch too much T.V. Americans may fuss with
other but when messed with you wake a kicka$$ Eagle that knows how to handle any attack (Listen to Toby Keith song on this). Too many people mistake
kindness for weakness and that is our problem we want to be mama to everybody. Help those that we can but to those that seek to destroy our way of
life like Mr. T use to say, "I Pity The Poor Fool." "No Fight, Be Happy."
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pargo
Nomad
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Location: Burbank Ca.
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you are absolutely right BF777
This country is not and will never fall to an outside power. Too powerful for that but we're not talkin' whose got the biggest gun or the most bombs.
Yeah Yeah kickass eagle, stars and stripes, bad ass American and all that stuff. You have proven my point in my humble opinion.....Salud!
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Telling
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Want to be more specific?
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| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
NO
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Keeping one's heroes a secret.
Interesting. 
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by pargo
...Nuff said....thanks Amir, you are right on.
...You are absolutely right BF777...
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This must be "everybody's right" day.
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pargo
Nomad
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Location: Burbank Ca.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by pargo
...Nuff said....thanks Amir, you are right on.
...You are absolutely right BF777...
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This must be "everybody's right" day. |
 ...you're absolutely right too Dave. This post was originally a post on amnesty after all so i will now graciously bow out of this one...Later dude!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
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Amir; I take your words sas that of a COWARD. Why not Post your Experience and Education?? Afraid? I thinkit is IGRNOANCE.
You post so many False Statments about this Great Country that you affear to be an Evil Hater from another Country.
Just as recent as World War 2- Where would Europe be, where would your Universial Feelings Be?
Korea 1950 Where would the South Koreans be?
We gave so many to help our Neighbors, look at France, Germany, England,Korea.
Your words seem to fit those of a Traitor an Evil Minded Person who THINKs he has been done Harm by some American or is it FEAR?
SHAME ON YOU AND YOUR EVIL MINDED WORDS!!!!
Skeet/Loreto - a 76 yearold Korean veteran who could kick your sorry butt- any Day of the week.
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