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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3509
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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The rich pay more
| Quote: | Originally posted by TonyC
The guy's reply was that if I went to San Diego that's what I would pay. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. |
I'd hear this from local MX RE ''Agents" in Todos years ago: ''you'll pay ALOT OF MONEY for a view like this in SoCal.'' And I would respond:
yeah I wouldn't be talking to you if this was SoCal.
Isn't the 2 price thing in MX like taxes in the US? The rich pay more than the poor? Seems fair to me -- the rich don't see it that way but so
what? I KNOW that's how the MX see it.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
.........the ones who least need the discount.
So sez you |
Angers some seniors so much when they have to change to the national or store brand dog food and forego the crackers.
Don't worry, with the two tier wages in labor unions and the rising level of minimum wage discouraging employers from providing real employment
benefits, the US is creating a poor society at the 20-30 age range real fast. The really good news is that their contributions to Social Security are
down and that will lead to a collapse of the entitlement system even sooner.
Gee, is having two tier wages just another form of discriminatory pricing, except on the other end - the supply end? The answer is no, it is a
benefit to the country, as along as seniors can buy health care at a fraction of or zero cost.
[Edited on 4-26-2008 by The Gull]
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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Bajagypsy
Super Nomad
Posts: 1416
Registered: 8-31-2006
Location: BahÃa Asuncion BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Living the dream
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I have to say I personally have never felt that we were being given the special "gringo" price. But then again, we have only been to touristy places
like Cabo three times; we tend to stay at smaller places. Are prices more in places like Mulege compared to Asuncion? Yes, but then again, I know
here in Canada prices in a place like Banff Nation Park are 20 - 50 times more than the city Calgary that is right beside it. As it has a lot of
tourists go through it.
I got sick in Asuncion and Shari took me to the hospital. They were having a big feast in the back. The doctor left the feast gave me a shot, and
didn't charge me anything for it. Shari, told me the correct thing to do would be to go to the grocery store and get some pop, chocolate and chips
for their feast. I did. When I went back to the hospital latter that day, they had to bring in another doctor, for a second opinion, hooked me up to
IV's and such, and again didn't want to charge me anything. We gave them $200 pesos, and thank them. Was it because Shari took me in? I'm not sure,
I just know that if the same thing was to happen to me while visiting in the US, it would have cost me a whole lot more.
Mr. Gypsy and I always try to speak in our limited Spanish, and thanks to people like Shari and Juan, they have taught us the correct responses to
questions, and how to "Mexicanize" ourselves.
When we travel with just the two of us, of course we tend to tip - spend a bit more. When we travel with all of our kids (4 of them), we tend to
budget a bit more. I feel that it all works out in the end. I don’t know any other place where I can feed a family of six for around $400 pesos a
week. Here in Canada it is more like $1,500 pesos a week.
Like I said, I have never felt that I was overcharged, and I am always embarrassed when I see people in a grocery store, try to haggle with the
prices. It is what it is.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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It's all apples and oranges....words get in the way sometimes....change the wording of something and even though it's the same thing...the meaning
changes...how about if we call the "gringo Prices" just the normal price of things and call the local prices "local discount prices"...that way the
gringos won't get mad. Another thought I had about the "no menu" restaurants...at times the prices fluctuate because in a remote village, we get what
we get from the trucks that come in and sometimes for example the meat or eggs come in at a way higher price than the week before depending on a
variety of things...I have seen prices of certain meals fluctuate for this reason...there is a big difference between carne regional for example (very
tough) and US style meat...and Diane is right about the bulk buying...here it is called Abonos where workers, delivery men etc...have a tab paid by
the company. very cheap. Another thought is in the construction business...the local mexican price on some jobs may be a bit lower but so is the
standard of work...I found out...ya pay for what you get...yes there are guys who can plaster for 40 pesos a meter but you sure can tell the
difference between his work and the work of a man who worked in the states who charges more for his labour but turns out gringo style work...very
nice...clean complete jobs. So if you want a slapped together job cheap get the local price....if you want pippitysnice( a local word for fancy), get
the guy who worked in the US and pay more. A question for you....we post our prices in dollars as most people pay in dollars...so when someone pays us
in pesos should we whine and say...oh sir, that will be one thousand and EIGHT TWO PESOS instead of just a thousand??? Wouldn't this be kinda
finicky....but according to many posts here fairness is important to you so shouldn't you offer to pay the exchange rate in all fairness???? Do I
charge the exchange rate of the day or the day they booked or the day I change the money at the bank er what??? The gas station exchange is 10-1 but
the store is 10.50, sometimes 10.70...so what's fair guys???? Should I whine about getting ripped off by gringos who pay us in pesos????? I think
not...which is why I repeat..it all works out in the end...you may get charged a couple bucks extra for a nice dinner...but they might bring you a
free dessert...or free hospital care the next day....whatever...apples and oranges. Don't sweat the small stuff. If you want things to work like in
america..stay there.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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Shari, do you mean that a person living in the paradise of Baja should not become emotionally unwound because of a few pesos?
Also, do you mean that some Americans judge Baja with the wrong concept of what is right?
Whew! I am glad you posted your clear thoughts. I just wonder how many of those ranting and ignorant people will choose to read it and decide on
another path. There is always hope.
I'm still filling my gas tank before crossing the border. Maybe I should not be tipping the guy who washes my windows, because after all, he is
working for PEMEX and his wages should cover all his tasks. He was probably just doing it to get a rich Gringo to separate from some pesos. I am
appalled.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
It's all apples and oranges....words get in the way sometimes....change the wording of something and even though it's the same thing...the meaning
changes...how about if we call the "gringo Prices" just the normal price of things and call the local prices "local discount prices"...that way the
gringos won't get mad.
Another thought I had about the "no menu" restaurants...at times the prices fluctuate because in a remote village, we get what we get from the trucks
that come in and sometimes for example the meat or eggs come in at a way higher price than the week before depending on a variety of things...I have
seen prices of certain meals fluctuate for this reason...there is a big difference between carne regional for example (very tough) and US style
meat...and Diane is right about the bulk buying...here it is called Abonos where workers, delivery men etc...have a tab paid by the company. very
cheap.
Another thought is in the construction business...the local mexican price on some jobs may be a bit lower but so is the standard of work...I found
out...ya pay for what you get...yes there are guys who can plaster for 40 pesos a meter but you sure can tell the difference between his work and the
work of a man who worked in the states who charges more for his labour but turns out gringo style work...very nice...clean complete jobs. So if you
want a slapped together job cheap get the local price....if you want pippitysnice( a local word for fancy), get the guy who worked in the US and pay
more.
A question for you....we post our prices in dollars as most people pay in dollars...so when someone pays us in pesos should we whine and say...oh sir,
that will be one thousand and EIGHT TWO PESOS instead of just a thousand??? Wouldn't this be kinda finicky....but according to many posts here
fairness is important to you so shouldn't you offer to pay the exchange rate in all fairness???? Do I charge the exchange rate of the day or the day
they booked or the day I change the money at the bank er what??? The gas station exchange is 10-1 but the store is 10.50, sometimes 10.70...so what's
fair guys???? Should I whine about getting ripped off by gringos who pay us in pesos????? I think not...which is why I repeat..it all works out in the
end...you may get charged a couple bucks extra for a nice dinner...but they might bring you a free dessert...or free hospital care the next
day....whatever...apples and oranges. Don't sweat the small stuff. If you want things to work like in america..stay there. |
Well said Shari!
The no menu restaurant we all had dinner at last July was great... We enjoyed it, the food, the hospitality, etc. Prices were fine... and if I paid a
few bucks more than a Mexican, big freaking deal! We are the vacationers, we have the ability to travel when the locals must work every day, we can
certainly pay 3 dollars more for a big meal...
I only hope they get the crime under control in la frontera so we can visit you and Juan again!
Viva Bahia Asuncion!
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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That's a big 10/4...yup, uh huh, simone, we all must choose our own just paths...funny, I always give the window washers a peso or two and being the
true canadian that I am.... find myself wondering how much these guys make in a day....Juan, on the other hand will give them double, triple and
sometimes even 10 times as much as I would give them....cause for thought???? uh huh...so ummm is Juan, a mexican...contributing to inflation of
window washer prices???? Does he care??? Will he be less generous because it this??? NOTTTTTT...he doesn't do this because he is a rich man throwing
money around...he does this out of the goodness of his heart...I have learned an ocean of things from my husband and amigos here about generosity,
respect and unconditional help as well as something I am having a hard time putting into words here...something I LOVE about baja and this culture is
that everything is not set in stone, prices, menus etc...it is not all laid out for all to have the same rules...as life, each situation is a little
different and required different treatment...we should listen to each person and react to each and every situation differently...like the stop signs,
some you just sort of slow down and look both ways, some you almost stop, some you have to stop at depending on where they are and the time of day
etc....you can still reason with a cop here depending on the circumstance...or solve a problem uniquely...bend and stretch the rules to suit every
person and circumstance...get around walls...or over or under...here there is opportunity to be creative...to be personal...each encounter with
say...a cashier..is a personal exchange...the kid packing the groceries is your neighbours kid or nephew...we all help each other with what we can...I
may only have a peso one day or if I have a pocketful of change I may give him/her 10 pesos...but they will not then EXPECT 10 pesos every time....but
are thankful for whatever they get...this culture is very difficult for those of you who want CLEARCUT prices, answers, laws etc...cause life is just
simply not like that here...every day is different and we are just happy to wake up to greet the lovely dawn...if baja lovers can somehow observe,
learn, shed the USA values when they are here, adjust, understand and accept the cultural differences, their life here would be much more
pleasant...fuller...happier...
many of my posts are meant to help visitors to understand a bit more clearly what life for a mexican is about...even though I'm not one yet...I have a
mexican daughter, husband, family and friends who I have learned from...many of these cannot express themselves on this board so I try get some of
their ideas and values across to you...is this making ANT sense at all???? It's like alot of spanish dichos/sayings...there is no clear way to
translate it into english...you have to actually live it to understand and accept and appreciate it for what it is....not according to northern
values...we aren't in Kansas anymore...
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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And may I add: conditions change too. While complaining to my gardener this AM about a jammed up septic pipe he told me his old house just caused him
big problems with a broken copper pipe under the slab in his kitchen. Normally not crippling but:
1. Our ejido (59 families) just got paid 7 million dollars for our beach for the new marina -- those he might have normally gone to for plumbing help
are now lounging in their hammocks, won't work until the money is gone.
2. The little town is booming and probably another 50 families sold lots to new gringos in the area -- same results.
3. All the people he would normally turn to for help are "working more than they want to" for gringos building new homes here. While he finally found
a good sport to do the work for just a few bucks he was shocked by the new high prices of everything involved -- cement, gravel, sand, rebar, pipe,
etc. He now thinks there are 3 prices here; one for Mexicans, one for gringos and the other one for him when he's down on his luck.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Everything has gone up everywhere...mainly due to gas prices...not just for gringos either....all buiding supplies have gone way up...If someone paid
me a bunch of pesos for a lot I probably didn't even know where it was...I'd be chillin in my hammock too!!!! and drinking Coralejo to boot!
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TonyC
Nomad
Posts: 421
Registered: 1-25-2008
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Shari, I don't have a problem paying more for quailty work, and I know the lesson in "you get what you pay for", however to say that because someone
who has worked in the states has more skill and or should be pay the going rate in say San Diego is something I can't agree with. In the state part of
why you pay more is not indicative that you'll get quailty work. Insurance, taxes and recourse for work not done to your satisfaction are part of the
higher cost in California. When I said way to high for the work, I wasn't trying nickle and dime the guy for his work.
I maybe a newbie, but I know when someone's trying to soak me. I tip 10 pesos if the attendent cleans my windshield, 20 if he does the back and my
mirrors. Is that to much, or not enough? Educate me, I want to understand.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3509
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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The High Road
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
It's like alot of spanish dichos/sayings...there is no clear way to translate it into english..you have to actually live it to understand and accept
and appreciate it for what it is....not according to northern values...we aren't in Kansas anymore... |
It's called ''Quanxi'' in China and ''Aloha'' in HI. There's a word for it in the US, just don't know what it is.
Guess shari nailed it, again.
For shari's consideration: half way down the post, I lost my place then got confused. Maybe more paragraphs? Like every 6-8 lines?
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Some folks have way more money than sense. Usually inherited the money, not
the IQ.  They're ripe for the plucking, another term is in more common use. I
don't blame the local folks down in Baja for taking advantage of 'em.  Easy
pickens!
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
| Quote: |
Walked into Second Hand Store in Guerrero Negro and were quoted about four times over the growing rate for a chest of drawers ---- we
left and will not go back to that store.
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same as it ever was.....the chicks in L.A. wouldn't blink at these prices.... 
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Yea, the going rate was growing big time.  No problem as there are lots of other stores there. It was not a matter of a few pesos, it was a matter of
approximately $300 dollars----so not a matter of "don't" sweat the small stuff. "
Situational and different ----but I still think that people who come down with the attitude of throwing around money just because they are gringos has
a condescending attitude behind it.
We pay well for services, and we tip well and as said before, we don't even have a clue how much a taco is at Tres. Hermanos because we don't care.
We know it will be a fair price -- besides, the side dishes are always different, so who knows.
But I am just really surprised that anyone would encourage people to charge more just because we are gringos---just do not understand that one at all.
And I don't think my "lack of understanding" has anything to do with "culture". I guess it is more a philosophy. I guess I just don't accept
Robinhood economics as an absolute. Just because someone has less they somehow DESERVE more pay, gifts, and tips from people who have more?
Sharing and giving because that is what someone wants to do it great, and I am a believer in sharing, but not because someone DESERVES it and expects
it, but like most people, it is rather a selfish thing, if one is honest---it feels good to give.
As do many, we have our special projects here that we help support because we want to do so and because we really enjoy what we are doing. And the
locals here more often than not refuse monetary assistance for favors, or taking us out to see the sea lions, or lobster fishing, etc., we find ways
to make it right.
Even when the local mechanic repaired our friends oil pan for a ridiculously low price, he had real difficulty in accepting a generous tip---he said
we were all paying too much and that is after he fed our friend lobster. We were only able to convince him to take the tip when we pointed out that
it was Easter and so he should be paid more for working on a holiday. (off topic but the epoxy worked well sealing up the big gash and our friend is
still driving around San Diego with the temporary fix)
JMHO
Diane
[Edited on 4-26-2008 by jdtrotter]
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
A local practice of providing a coupon or local incentive related to the time of year is different than intentionally bilking someone BECAUSE they are
a tourist, woman, black, hispanic, tall, short, blind, you get the picture. They can offer the same discount by saying something like "tell 'em KBAT
radio sent you in. Or mention the name of the newspaper, radio station etc. with out discriminating due to membership in a perceived class. Because I
am white, a tourist, dressed like a foreigner, etc. should not be the basis of a discount.
Let do it to Mexicans here in the US. Lets charge Mexicans more for their food. Then come up with a rationale why we should do that. Get Rush Limbaugh
on it, or Bill O'Reilly and then you will really hear why this is patriotic and good for us. I can hear it now "they make more money here than they do
at home", "they are paid more here than at home", "they are rich in their own country", "look at that fancy car, they can afford to pay more", "they
won't be back around here and may never know". Makes me want to go and extort a Mexican tourist and then justify it to myself.
Man, I am hotter on this than I thought. It really does generate bad feelings.
Iflyfish |
I have purchased items such as bread and milk in stores that cater to Mexicans in Southern Calif. and the prices were MUCH higher for the same item
than at Lucky's or Vons. And this was at a smaller chain grocery, not a mom and pop place.
So it's obvious to me that it applies where ever you go - charge what you think you can get.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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sd
Nomad
Posts: 487
Registered: 3-19-2008
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bajalou -
At this market, are two groups of people charged different prices for the same items.
NO!
Also, recent price for Oranges in Southern California was 8 lbs for $1.00 at several Mexican owned markets, and $1.00 per lb at Vons.
It certainly pays to shop around. Everyone likes the best value.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Those of you who think it's OK to charge different people different prices, how would you feel if they taped over the prices on a gas pump? It's a
recurring theme here when a gas station rips someone off but I don't ever remember anyone saying, "Oh well, It's just Mexico and they're allowed to
charge anything they want."
Nope....I havn't heard that. Don't suppose I will either.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
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We stupid gringos....was in a small marina side restaurant in La Paz....Marguarita, $9.00 U.S. WHAT?
I asked a regular U.S. Ex-Pat if that was really the going rate..
His answer, "yes, but they're really nice people here"..."Oh, no kidding says I, I'm a nice person too, why are they porking me?" No answer, just
turned his head away from me, YEAH RIGHT!
When someone is porkin yer, they're porkin yer....oh, but they need the pesos..yeah, so do I!
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
That's a big 10/4...yup, uh huh, simone, we all must choose our own just paths...funny, I always give the window washers a peso or two and being the
true canadian that I am.... find myself wondering how much these guys make in a day....Juan, on the other hand will give them double, triple and
sometimes even 10 times as much as I would give them....cause for thought???? uh huh...so ummm is Juan, a mexican...contributing to inflation of
window washer prices???? Does he care??? Will he be less generous because it this??? NOTTTTTT...he doesn't do this because he is a rich man throwing
money around...he does this out of the goodness of his heart...I have learned an ocean of things from my husband and amigos here about generosity,
respect and unconditional help as well as something I am having a hard time putting into words here...something I LOVE about baja and this culture is
that everything is not set in stone, prices, menus etc...it is not all laid out for all to have the same rules...as life, each situation is a little
different and required different treatment...we should listen to each person and react to each and every situation differently...like the stop signs,
some you just sort of slow down and look both ways, some you almost stop, some you have to stop at depending on where they are and the time of day
etc....you can still reason with a cop here depending on the circumstance...or solve a problem uniquely...bend and stretch the rules to suit every
person and circumstance...get around walls...or over or under...here there is opportunity to be creative...to be personal...each encounter with
say...a cashier..is a personal exchange...the kid packing the groceries is your neighbours kid or nephew...we all help each other with what we can...I
may only have a peso one day or if I have a pocketful of change I may give him/her 10 pesos...but they will not then EXPECT 10 pesos every time....but
are thankful for whatever they get...this culture is very difficult for those of you who want CLEARCUT prices, answers, laws etc...cause life is just
simply not like that here...every day is different and we are just happy to wake up to greet the lovely dawn...if baja lovers can somehow observe,
learn, shed the USA values when they are here, adjust, understand and accept the cultural differences,
their life here would be much more pleasant...fuller...happier...
many of my posts are meant to help visitors to understand a bit more clearly what life for a mexican is about...even though I'm not one yet...I have a
mexican daughter, husband, family and friends who I have learned from...many of these cannot express themselves on this board so I try get some of
their ideas and values across to you...is this making ANT sense at all???? It's like alot of spanish dichos/sayings...there is no clear way to
translate it into english...you have to actually live it to understand and accept and appreciate it for what it is....not according to northern
values...we aren't in Kansas anymore... |
Incredibly well said Shari ( a few more paragraphs would indeed make it easier to read) So appreciate you trying to get these thoughts across to us. I can sense how emotional it is for you. I know that everytime I leave
and get a bigger hug, (this time tears, from Maria and even a hug from Victor Sr!) that I have managed to treat the neighbors and our "workers"
fairly. I so know what you mean about the fact that we are so used to always having a "price" for everything... and wanting to know what that is.
They are not accustomed to that and I sense quite uncomfortable when I used to ask them "how much" for every little service. Now I pay them what I
think is fair... sometimes more and sometimes less, and supplement it with little gifts of "treats" from the city. Seems to be working for us.
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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I know that Shari is a person of good quality and heart. She and Juan are generous and kind people. Serena is a girl who anyone would be proud to have
as a daughter and when kids turn out that well, it says something about the parents.
I appreciate and understand what you are saying "Shari and appreciate it. You are attempting to describe a way of viewing these matters that involves
a situational ethic that is foreign to most of us in the US. It really is different in Mexico. I appreciate your sharing your perspective, we are
honored to have people on this site who have lived in both cultures and who are willing to share their knowledge, insights and awareness with us. I
appreciate the thoughtful responses of people here who are willing to explore and share their points of view with out making the other bad. I believe
I did that, made "the other" bad when I started to view these issues from a "moral" perspective. For that I appologize if I offended anyone. It is
very difficult to discuss matters like this without bifurcating the world into good/bad. I imagine that there are things about Norte's that drive
Mexicans mad, mad because of being raised differently and mad because of the frustration of not understanding.
I am committed to learning and understanding and enjoying myself, my statements reflect and ambivilance between the values that I have been raised
with and those I experience in Mexico. I am also learning that there are people who will use situational ethics to abuse and use others and there are
those who do so in order to meaningly participate in another culture.
It is hard to describe the cultural bone in our own nose, the culture that we are a part of. It often takes an outsider or someone who has lived in
both cultures to provide a clear understanding of what is happening. I feel fortunate indeed to be part of a group and be fiends with some who
actually live in Mexico, a country that I love and that has fascinated me for over forty years. I don't think that I will ever fully understand
Mexico, I doubt that one can ever fully understand all of the nuances of a country that one is not native to unless you were raised there from a very
early age. I know that I love Mexico and genuinely enjoy hanging out with most Mexicans I have run into.
The fuel in Mexico is controled by a goverment monopoly. Everyone is subject to the real feelings of being taken to the cleaners by a monopoly that is
extorting. I feel that way about WalMart who pays a wage so low and reduces worker's hours so that they will not have to pay medical benifits which
then cause their employees to use the public system that I am subsidizing. I think it is very natural, at least it is for me, raised in the the USofA
to bridle at paying higher prices than someone else because of my membership in a group, white, gringo, etc. Those are very natural feelings. I have
also been raised in a society that rewards individuality and self expression, not in a society that would behead, hang or enslave me for speaking my
mind (unless of course I was a black, a slave etc.) I also believe that Mexicans share those feelings when they too feel they are being ripped off. It
does sound from my reading of Shari, Osprey and others that underlying their way of being in this is a sense of trying to do things in a fair way and
that they believe that most are trying to do just that. I believe them. I know and have experienced first hand the generosity of Shari and Juan, as
others have. Yet I have found myself having very strong feelings about this issue. This says something about me. It says to me that I have not yet
come to a full resolve of this issue on an emotional level in myself, though in practice I am probably doing pretty well with it as I gain from the
responses of those who I know and have interacted with in Mexican culture. On some levels I feel very at home in Mexico as I did as a child on our
farm and as part of a town of 400 people. I grock some of this and don't understand other parts of it.
I know that if I take a posture that I need to learn and understand and that these are differences, and only differences, and that there are
wonderful, conscious, conscientious and honest people who are living with a very different way of approaching economic issue then I feel much better
about the whole thing. That also leaves for me a place where I can understand that there are also unscrupulous people with out conscience who might be
engaged in the same activity. I would imaging that those folks, called sociopaths in the USofA, are probably seen as bad people by Mexicans as well as
by Norte's.
This is not a simple matter and I again want to express my appreciation for the depth and attempts at understanding and clarification that I am
reading here. We are all in a process of learning, growing, struggling, wiping egg off our faces and I am glad for the opportunity to do that here.
Viva Nomads.
Iflyfish
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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Hey, Capt. George, head on over to my boat and I'll fix you a margy on the fantail, for only $4, that is twice as good as anything you can buy at the
Dock Cafe. I make them for my Mexican compadres gratis ......oh what the heck,
yours will be gratis too! 
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