| Pages:
1
..
4
5
6
7
8
..
10 |
cajhawk
Junior Nomad
Posts: 64
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ramona, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"Citigroup should be able to find a buyer in time and is probably going to get a better price for the asset once the liabilities of the current
company go away."
In your dreams. Clue - it's been on the market for 7 months. Citibank has put in its capital, borrowed millions and maybe finished 10 more homes for
all that. HOW ARE THE LIABILITIES GOING TO "GO AWAY"?????????
I guess the way that 5 mile aquaduct that you're going to kayak down some day is going to get done.
After all, IT'S ONLY A VISION. And that's what you all were told |
If the new buyer comes in and solely purchases the land and facilities from Citigroup, I would think that they would not be liable for any past due
bills from the Loreto Bay Company purchased by Citigroup. They get a clean slate. What would keep a developer from allowing each house to be
individually built and merely selling lots? As long as there was a design standard in place they could make quite a bit doing that.
I'm not defending the Loreto Bay developers nor their mismanagement, but whether two or 9 phases are ever built it is still a beautiful area with some
beautiful homes. The market will dictate their value, with or without all of the amenities.
|
|
|
bajabeachbabe
Nomad
Posts: 150
Registered: 9-11-2006
Location: Loreto,
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving life
|
|
| Quote: | [quote.
10. Loreto Partners has not fully reimbursed BAJA New York for the cost of the provision of all the services provided Loreto Partners under the ISA.
As only one example, certain individuals and entities provided emergency funding to BAJA New York so that it could provide services to Loreto
Partners, which sums have not been reimbursed. A Canadian citizen named Norma Butterfield loaned BAJA New York $800,000 (Canadian),
and upon information and belief, those sums were used at least in part to provide services to Loreto Partners under the ISA. Loreto Partners has not
reimbursed BAJA New York for these sums. In addition, a British Columbia corporation named Fan Tan Alley Holdings, Ltd. loaned BAJA New York $200,000
(Canadian), and upon information and belief, those sums were used at least in part to provide services to Loreto Partners under the ISA. Loreto
Partners has not reimbursed BAJA New York for these sums. Upon information and belief, there are other un-reimbursed expenditures that Loreto Partners
is obligated to reimburse BAJA New York under the ISA. These will be identified with particularity after discovery, and by means of the accounting
that plaintiff is requesting the Court to order in this action.
|
I'm trying to get my arms around whether these people are really suing themselves. As far as I can recall and have gleaned from reading this
complaint, I think these may be the relationships.
TSD Canada is still run by David Butterfield who founded Loreto Bay and would have had a hand in creating Baja Developments and TSD Loreto Partners.
Baja Developments appears to have been the group running the offices in Scottsdale with Loreto Partners providing the sales in Scottsdale and Loreto.
I am assuming that David Butterfield would have participated in all three entities until he left in 2007.
After Butterfield left, Replay was brought in to manage Loreto Bay and the offices of Loreto Partners moved to Loreto. What's not clear is who really
is Loreto Partners today.
It's interesting to note that one of the people seeking money back is Mrs. Butterfield.
Back in February David Butterfield sent an email to one of the LB homeowners indicating that he was working with a former business partner to make a
bid for the LB project. I recall that their bid was rejected.
Could it be that this lawsuit was an attempt by Butterfield to create a poison pill that would drive away any potential buyers in order to be able to
strike a bargain to purchase the project back? Just a thought..........
|
|
|
Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
|
|
I would guess that it would be difficult to sell or purchase the assets as long as the debt is unresolved. Those who hold debt would likely block the
liquidation of assets without a negotiated participation to make sure they get a share. Otherwise a buyer might be wary of the debtors attaching the
property.
But I believe things will sort themselves out. Probably the individual property owners will arrange continuing services and any needed additional
construction. Only when that is accomplished, and they are comfortable with their situation, will some new entity fly in on a Gulfstream and announce
they are the new owners (with a Vision, of course), and they will proceed to muck everything up again.
Did you know that receipts from Loreto Bay pay 50% of the payroll for the Loreto water department? Or at least they used to.
Also to the detriment of Loreto, a great source of free building materials will be lost.
|
|
|
wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
Citigroup infused $30 million, which debt comes due June 2010. There are 250 homes sold but not built. There's no money to give back to the buyers
whose homes haven't begun. There's no capital to finish amenities. What are you going to do with the outstanding debts, workers' liens, unfinished
projects? Most of the residences were high-density condos. How much do you think the tiny "lots" are worth? How many and how quickly do you think
they'd sell in order to get your $30 million+ investment back with profit? And in the meantime, you need to advertise and have staff to sell them or
they're going nowhere. Look how long Rancho Dorado has been around doing that exact same thing - selling lots. And they've got the golf course, a
couple restaurants, swimming pool, and extremely inexpensive HOA fee. If anyone wanted to buy a lot and build on it, they can - all over Baja CA.
But not many people really want to put themselves through that ordeal. Who wants to spend $30 million in a foreign county and wait 15 years for a
possible return on their investment. It's going to come down to Citigroup being willing to lose most of its investment, and a buyer who's willing to
take on all the issues which led to its eventual downfall in the first place - the same elements that have been in place all along which dictated LB's
non-starter position. Materials acquisition, materials storage, affordability, worker expertise, worker accommodations, availability of water, no
Mexican influence; no stores, no garages for the stuff that anyone who knows Baja knows they'll need; long way from the US border, expensive flight.
If anyone wanted to develop the land any differently than what it's now permitted and planned for, I'm sure there would have to be new enviro. impact
statements, new plat maps drawn, new permits. Why would anyone want to step into a mess like that when there are many other sensible places to invest
your money?
|
|
|
wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
"Could it be that this lawsuit was an attempt by Butterfield to create a poison pill that would drive away any potential buyers in order to be able to
strike a bargain to purchase the project back? Just a thought.......... "
Beats me. Or just a stab at Butterfield's wife getting back some of her money - or being able to get a judgment and lien against any future proceeds
from a sale of the property or assets. The complaint provides a clue into the general running of the project, stating that Baja Development LLC was
supposed to provide accounts receivable, accts payable, asset records, billing, collection, tax returns, financial statements, payroll, etc, etc., -
all financial paperwork, but they didn't do so. Well, where was the oversight from the CFO and everyone else on the "Team." What a bunch of
amateurs.
THE PROPERTY OWNERS WHO HAVE NO HOME AND WILL NOT GET THEIR MONEY BACK SHOULD FILE "INTERVENOR" SUITS.
|
|
|
comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
|
|
Theres some good info here.
http://whereintheworldisnellie.blogspot.com/
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
May I say " I told you So!" and I did that several years ago when this thing wsas announced.
Why is it that so many People fall for these Scams??
|
|
|
arrowhead
Banned
Posts: 912
Registered: 5-5-2009
Member Is Offline
|
|
This project is dead. It is just going to dissolve back into the desert from whence it came. Nobody can take it over because it just won't pencil out.
That example of the schoolteacher who has paid 70% of the purchase price and the unit is only 20% done (due to fraud) should tell you. The economic
profit from building a condo is probably 20% of the sales price, at best. The schoolteacher only owes an additional 30% on the contract and somebody
has to expend 80% of the costs to finish it. Who is going to put in another $200,000 to finish it with less than $100,000 of payments due from the
buyer?
Those other postings from people still involved with the project are designed only to give people false hope to keep the cash flow cow giving milk as
long as they can. Who is that guy who said it's "nobody's fault"? It is somebody's fault. If I were an owner, I wouldn't pay one more cent of HOA
dues. Those HOA contracts aren't really enforceable in Mexico anyways.
The legal structure shown in the lawsuit, where there is an offshore management company sucking all the cash out of Mexico as soon as it shows up is
very typical. The Mexican development company is just a hollow shell, never meant to make money. It just serves as an obstacle to keep the buyers away
from the money.
|
|
|
CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
This project is dead. It is just going to dissolve back into the desert from whence it came. Nobody can take it over because it just won't pencil out.
That example of the schoolteacher who has paid 70% of the purchase price and the unit is only 20% done (due to fraud) should tell you. The economic
profit from building a condo is probably 20% of the sales price, at best. The schoolteacher only owes an additional 30% on the contract and somebody
has to expend 80% of the costs to finish it. Who is going to put in another $200,000 to finish it with less than $100,000 of payments due from the
buyer?
Those other postings from people still involved with the project are designed only to give people false hope to keep the cash flow cow giving milk as
long as they can. Who is that guy who said it's "nobody's fault"? It is somebody's fault. If I were an owner, I wouldn't pay one more cent of HOA
dues. Those HOA contracts aren't really enforceable in Mexico anyways.
The legal structure shown in the lawsuit, where there is an offshore management company sucking all the cash out of Mexico as soon as it shows up is
very typical. The Mexican development company is just a hollow shell, never meant to make money. It just serves as an obstacle to keep the buyers away
from the money. |
 |
|
|
camador
Junior Nomad
Posts: 38
Registered: 6-8-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoing the life !!
|
|
Could stranded 400 workers of Loreto Bay, as of these days Loreto Bay suspended operations and yesterday the Inn at Loreto Bay closed, 400 workers
could become unemployeed, full story here http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/10/podrian-quedar-desam...
They have now a translate button for easy reading.
|
|
|
CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
|
|
I hope this article is true .....and these workers are sent back to their homes.
Otherwise there will be 400 new workers on the streets of town trying to wash your car windows.
|
|
|
k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
|
|
I'm thinking that there might be some good deals now that the "sustainable" and "authentic mexican" real estate development built by Canadians in a
3rd world country with home price tags that rivaled the hottest US markets in an area that lacks some basics, like water, and is unbearably hot half
the year has come to its logical conclusion.
I'm such a vulture.
|
|
|
backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
|
|
Run by the inept, sold to the uninformed and left to the unfortunate....
|
|
|
CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by backninedan
Run by the inept, sold to the uninformed and left to the unfortunate.... |
Wow, You have really summed up the situation ...
|
|
|
camador
Junior Nomad
Posts: 38
Registered: 6-8-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoing the life !!
|
|
Bad news for Loreto people, now TSD Loreto Partners announced the Loreto's golf course will be closed permanently, that plus the Inn at Loreto Bay and
Loreto Bay issues left about 700 workers unemployeed, here the source http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/11/el-campo-de-golf-de-...
|
|
|
Pollen
Newbie
Posts: 11
Registered: 6-11-2009
Member Is Offline
|
|
Long-time lurker here- This Loreto Bay stuff--
I'm more of an east Caper, but would see LB on the way down and always puzzled about what they thought they were doing. An eco-friendly resort that
is a virtual enclosed outpost of "style"? Tiny condos without garages or parking? A massive golf-course using water/fertilizer/non-native plants so
close to the estuary- virtually guaranteeing algae blooms in the bay? Unbelieveable pricing for that area? Does the "manure" not stink in LB?
And I'm mystified about the cheerleaders- StarkSilver- are they realtors? Nellie- what is she selling? How can they put their names and photos to all
that hype. All the other cheerleaders/ realtors/victims- are they all drinking the LB KoolAid? A teacher losing what is probably a significant part
of her life savings on a fraudlent deal? Do they have any shame at all?
I don't own in Mexico and never will. I have no trouble renting and hanging around a place for a couple of months. I sure don't want to be stuck in
a snobby elistist colony away from the everyday life that is Baja.
I don't consider myself a sophisticate, but I could sure tell that was a mess from the day it started.
|
|
|
BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by camador
Bad news for Loreto people, now TSD Loreto Partners announced the Loreto's golf course will be closed permanently, that plus the Inn at Loreto Bay and
Loreto Bay issues left about 700 workers unemployeed, here the source http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/11/el-campo-de-golf-de-... |
I would have to assume that the golf
course will no longer be watered. With all the natural vegetation torn out to plant grass, what happens now? Isn't it going to turn into an 18 hole
dust bowl?
I think the world is run by C- students.
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Pollen"
You read it right, but you must consider that in todays World, people are not much smarter than they were in my Great Generation Era.
There are Cheaters and Crooks all over. Loreto was and still is a very beautiful place. The UGLY Condos will just have to set there and be talked
about.
Look a little further, go North and South and see some of the unspoiled Beauty that is still there.
It is such a Shame to see People who are suppose to be adults, that fall for all the BS.
|
|
|
Pollen
Newbie
Posts: 11
Registered: 6-11-2009
Member Is Offline
|
|
The golf course is a goat farm now.
I'm more curious about the "canals".
|
|
|
Pollen
Newbie
Posts: 11
Registered: 6-11-2009
Member Is Offline
|
|
Imagine the homeowner dues for having to maintain those/prevent them from becoming mosquito farms.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
4
5
6
7
8
..
10 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
